Glassing with epoxy?
04-12-2005 | 08:56 AM
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From: Hopedale,
MA
Glassing with epoxy?
I have a question,
Do most guys thin epoxy with denatured alcohol to attach glass cloth to the surface, if so, do you go right to primer, or do you put a second coat of epoxy first to fill some of the weave?
I found that if you put on a second coat of epoxy, it tends to bead up instead of flowing out flat. This results in a lot of sanding later on to get the surface flat. On the other hand, if you don't put on the second coat, it would take a ton of primer to fill and prepare the surface for paint. For years, I've been using a second coat of epoxy, and wet sanding for hours to get a good surface.
Any suggestions?
Thanks Dan
Do most guys thin epoxy with denatured alcohol to attach glass cloth to the surface, if so, do you go right to primer, or do you put a second coat of epoxy first to fill some of the weave?
I found that if you put on a second coat of epoxy, it tends to bead up instead of flowing out flat. This results in a lot of sanding later on to get the surface flat. On the other hand, if you don't put on the second coat, it would take a ton of primer to fill and prepare the surface for paint. For years, I've been using a second coat of epoxy, and wet sanding for hours to get a good surface.
Any suggestions?
Thanks Dan
04-12-2005 | 09:10 AM
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RE: Glassing with epoxy?
Read this thread in it's entirety and then ask me any questions you have:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_20..._isobar/tm.htm
Sean
PS, I never dilute west systems epoxy (unless it's on my hands
)
Second coat is sometimes necessary, but use a squeegee and do it THIN!
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_20..._isobar/tm.htm
Sean
PS, I never dilute west systems epoxy (unless it's on my hands
) Second coat is sometimes necessary, but use a squeegee and do it THIN!
04-12-2005 | 10:07 AM
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From: SouthWest, UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Glassing with epoxy?
I ve just finished glassing my reaper wings, they were covered in solarfilm but were getting some serious hanger rash after a summers flying.
1. First of all I seal the wood with a thinned epoxy, i.e to reduce pin holing later.
2. Roll on the glass with a roller using normal expoxy (surfacing) .
3. I then give it a quick rub down and clean it with methalated spirit, this gets rid of the waxy deposit.
4. I then put on another coat of epoxy , but I squeegee it with a credit card and try to really work it in, although you can't see them blastest pin holes they are there.
5. After its all gone off , I go at it heavily with 240 wet, this should evenly get it back to the cloth level and remove most of the second layer.
6. Spray with high build primer and then go at it again with 240 wet
7. Finish off with 400 wet.
I have manged to get the second layer of epoxy to bead up as the layer underneath was not ready and probalby not clean. And yes it was a pain to sand it all down again, you end up with little craters in the surface that are particulary difficult to get rid of.
Nick
1. First of all I seal the wood with a thinned epoxy, i.e to reduce pin holing later.
2. Roll on the glass with a roller using normal expoxy (surfacing) .
3. I then give it a quick rub down and clean it with methalated spirit, this gets rid of the waxy deposit.
4. I then put on another coat of epoxy , but I squeegee it with a credit card and try to really work it in, although you can't see them blastest pin holes they are there.
5. After its all gone off , I go at it heavily with 240 wet, this should evenly get it back to the cloth level and remove most of the second layer.
6. Spray with high build primer and then go at it again with 240 wet
7. Finish off with 400 wet.
I have manged to get the second layer of epoxy to bead up as the layer underneath was not ready and probalby not clean. And yes it was a pain to sand it all down again, you end up with little craters in the surface that are particulary difficult to get rid of.
Nick
04-12-2005 | 04:48 PM
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RE: Glassing with epoxy?
I use to thin with denatured alcohol, but have sinced stop that practice and the results for me are much better. I apply the first coat with a card or whatever to get the cloth down, removing most of the resin, leaving the cloth (weave) visible but saturated. The second coat is applied to "fill" the weave but not excessive. Then it's time to sand with 220, then prime with a filling primer, sand, prime, sand, prime, switching to 400 when you are satisfied with your surface finish. You can fill & sand as much or as little as you desire depending on your standards.
I also swithed to West's System from ZAP.
This has worked for me and is my preferred method. Actually, ARF is my preferred method now
, but if I have to paint, that's what I use.
George
I also swithed to West's System from ZAP.
This has worked for me and is my preferred method. Actually, ARF is my preferred method now
, but if I have to paint, that's what I use.George
04-12-2005 | 05:00 PM
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From: Fort Wayne, IN
RE: Glassing with epoxy?
Go to my web site and try my method. It sounds like more work, but it really isn't! Will save a lot of sanding later.
Http://terry_holston.tripod.com
Terry
Http://terry_holston.tripod.com
Terry
04-12-2005 | 05:06 PM
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From: Saalfelden, AUSTRIA
RE: Glassing with epoxy?
I never thin epoxy. In the company I worked for, making composit components, I´ve heard of epoxy loosing it´s characteristics, if thinned. I treat my wooden surfaces with some kind of nitro-lacquer for preventing it to soak epoxy. Then I glass this surfaces with the "credit card" method, as provided at the Grumania Homepage.
Greetz
Thomas
Greetz
Thomas
04-13-2005 | 03:28 AM
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From: Pendle HillNSW, AUSTRALIA
RE: Glassing with epoxy?
I use the Dan Parsons method. Dan sold .6 oz glass cloth for many years.
Use thinned epoxy (Rubbing Alcohol).
Paint the thinned epoxy over the dry cloth, when dry apply a second coat.
When fully cured, sand with 80 (yes 80) grit paper. Sand till you get the shine off the surface.
Use lots of sandpaper (change often) and lots of elbow grease!!!.
no squeegee needed
Works for me.
Regards
Use thinned epoxy (Rubbing Alcohol).
Paint the thinned epoxy over the dry cloth, when dry apply a second coat.
When fully cured, sand with 80 (yes 80) grit paper. Sand till you get the shine off the surface.
Use lots of sandpaper (change often) and lots of elbow grease!!!.
no squeegee needed
Works for me.
Regards
04-13-2005 | 06:40 AM
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From: SeaTac - Angle Lake, WA
RE: Glassing with epoxy?
Hey Tommy,
How's the R54 comin along?
Finally got my waiver paperwork completed and on it's way to the AMA...
What a pain to get each signature notarized. Is it really necessary or just a deterrent from the AMA?
Cheers,
Tim Schuy
How's the R54 comin along?
Finally got my waiver paperwork completed and on it's way to the AMA...
What a pain to get each signature notarized. Is it really necessary or just a deterrent from the AMA?
Cheers,
Tim Schuy
04-13-2005 | 06:51 AM
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From: Sailing in the Eastern Caribbean
RE: Glassing with epoxy?
MAJOR HEALTH WARNING
NEVER REPEAT NEVER DRY SAND EPOXY WITHOUT A SKIN PROTECTION AND A VERY GOOD BREATHING MASK TO FILTER OUT THE DUST.
I always wet sand with a mask and gloves outside my house then wash down the work area. The residue is still a serious hazard when it dries into dust.
I and a number of people I know are seriously sensitized to epoxy dust, to the point where it has hospitalised them after a brief exposure.
Alternatively there is a Water based sealent which is good for surface finishing. See Fibretech.
NEVER REPEAT NEVER DRY SAND EPOXY WITHOUT A SKIN PROTECTION AND A VERY GOOD BREATHING MASK TO FILTER OUT THE DUST.
I always wet sand with a mask and gloves outside my house then wash down the work area. The residue is still a serious hazard when it dries into dust.
I and a number of people I know are seriously sensitized to epoxy dust, to the point where it has hospitalised them after a brief exposure.
Alternatively there is a Water based sealent which is good for surface finishing. See Fibretech.
04-13-2005 | 04:47 PM
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From: Pendle HillNSW, AUSTRALIA
RE: Glassing with epoxy?
G'Day Tim,
I have finished the covering and have completed the turbine install and all the stuff under the rear fuse. I need now to hinge the ailerons and flaps, finally glue on the tail pieces, and install all the the stuff in the front of the fuse. Work has slowed down a little so I should get some done this week.
I think I will still have the first "downunder" R54!!!!.
Down here we need to have each and every jet model inspected by a Jet Model Inspector (apointed by the state association). He will check the build quality and make sure the model is airworthy. They you must demonstrate that you can operate the turbine safely, and show the emergency shut down operates OK. This is why we need to have a Radio Controlled shut off valve. Then you need to fly the model and prove you can control it safely. Unless you have a really good turbine qualified friend you will be doing you maiden flight in front of the inspector. It can be very stressfull. I am lucky I have a really good long field to fly from and the inspector is a friendly easy going sort of bloke. He will then sign the "Turbine Model Permit to Fly" and send it to the state association. You can then fly the model at any field. Because the model is over 7Kg, I also need to get a "Large Model Permit to Fly" , which is a similar process, usually done at the same time by the same inspector.
You guys are lucky you don't live here.
Where did you place your RX and where did you run the antenna?. I was thinking of a whip antenna. Is this necessary. I use a 9ZAP with a 149dp RX.
Regards
I have finished the covering and have completed the turbine install and all the stuff under the rear fuse. I need now to hinge the ailerons and flaps, finally glue on the tail pieces, and install all the the stuff in the front of the fuse. Work has slowed down a little so I should get some done this week.
I think I will still have the first "downunder" R54!!!!.
Down here we need to have each and every jet model inspected by a Jet Model Inspector (apointed by the state association). He will check the build quality and make sure the model is airworthy. They you must demonstrate that you can operate the turbine safely, and show the emergency shut down operates OK. This is why we need to have a Radio Controlled shut off valve. Then you need to fly the model and prove you can control it safely. Unless you have a really good turbine qualified friend you will be doing you maiden flight in front of the inspector. It can be very stressfull. I am lucky I have a really good long field to fly from and the inspector is a friendly easy going sort of bloke. He will then sign the "Turbine Model Permit to Fly" and send it to the state association. You can then fly the model at any field. Because the model is over 7Kg, I also need to get a "Large Model Permit to Fly" , which is a similar process, usually done at the same time by the same inspector.
You guys are lucky you don't live here.
Where did you place your RX and where did you run the antenna?. I was thinking of a whip antenna. Is this necessary. I use a 9ZAP with a 149dp RX.
Regards
04-13-2005 | 05:11 PM
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From: Pendle HillNSW, AUSTRALIA
RE: Glassing with epoxy?
I have always used a mask when sanding ANYTHING, and I always sand outside in the yard and upwind. I have never had any reaction to epoxy but as you say you can't be too carefull.
Yours is a good warning to others
regards
Yours is a good warning to others
regards
04-13-2005 | 06:30 PM
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From: SeaTac - Angle Lake, WA
RE: Glassing with epoxy?
ORIGINAL: TommyWatson
G'Day Tim,
I have finished the covering and have completed the turbine install and all the stuff under the rear fuse. I need now to hinge the ailerons and flaps, finally glue on the tail pieces, and install all the the stuff in the front of the fuse. Work has slowed down a little so I should get some done this week.
I think I will still have the first "downunder" R54!!!!.
Down here we need to have each and every jet model inspected by a Jet Model Inspector (apointed by the state association). He will check the build quality and make sure the model is airworthy. They you must demonstrate that you can operate the turbine safely, and show the emergency shut down operates OK. This is why we need to have a Radio Controlled shut off valve. Then you need to fly the model and prove you can control it safely. Unless you have a really good turbine qualified friend you will be doing you maiden flight in front of the inspector. It can be very stressfull. I am lucky I have a really good long field to fly from and the inspector is a friendly easy going sort of bloke. He will then sign the "Turbine Model Permit to Fly" and send it to the state association. You can then fly the model at any field. Because the model is over 7Kg, I also need to get a "Large Model Permit to Fly" , which is a similar process, usually done at the same time by the same inspector.
You guys are lucky you don't live here.
Where did you place your RX and where did you run the antenna?. I was thinking of a whip antenna. Is this necessary. I use a 9ZAP with a 149dp RX.
Regards
G'Day Tim,
I have finished the covering and have completed the turbine install and all the stuff under the rear fuse. I need now to hinge the ailerons and flaps, finally glue on the tail pieces, and install all the the stuff in the front of the fuse. Work has slowed down a little so I should get some done this week.
I think I will still have the first "downunder" R54!!!!.
Down here we need to have each and every jet model inspected by a Jet Model Inspector (apointed by the state association). He will check the build quality and make sure the model is airworthy. They you must demonstrate that you can operate the turbine safely, and show the emergency shut down operates OK. This is why we need to have a Radio Controlled shut off valve. Then you need to fly the model and prove you can control it safely. Unless you have a really good turbine qualified friend you will be doing you maiden flight in front of the inspector. It can be very stressfull. I am lucky I have a really good long field to fly from and the inspector is a friendly easy going sort of bloke. He will then sign the "Turbine Model Permit to Fly" and send it to the state association. You can then fly the model at any field. Because the model is over 7Kg, I also need to get a "Large Model Permit to Fly" , which is a similar process, usually done at the same time by the same inspector.
You guys are lucky you don't live here.
Where did you place your RX and where did you run the antenna?. I was thinking of a whip antenna. Is this necessary. I use a 9ZAP with a 149dp RX.
Regards
Hi Tommy,
If you look at my post # 271 over in the R54 forum ( http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=2681625 )
you'll see a couple of photo's of my setup. The receiver in view is not the one I actually used. I went with the same receiver as you and it has work flawlessly with a Revolution Whip antenna that I got from www.dreamworksrc.com ( http://www.dreamworksrc.com/catalog/...roducts_id=371 ) but it's engineered to work on 72 mHz which I'm not sure if it's what you all use down there. You might try going with this one ( http://www.dreamworksrc.com/catalog/...roducts_id=388 ) instead as it states that you just remove about 20" (or 51 cm's) from your existing antenna and go with it.
Reason I went to this type is because just like you I was concerned about the RF from all the equipment and a base loaded antenna was the best solution based upon numerous positive reports in the RCU forums. Standard wire whips appear to be doing okay too. I mounted mine up front and popped a hole in the hatch to feed the antenna through. I re-enforce the hole with a 1/4" block of balsa and epoxy to keep it from wearing away.
Plane looks great and you should post the pic's in the R54 forum for all the guys to see...
Cheers,
04-13-2005 | 06:44 PM
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RE: Glassing with epoxy?
I have a quick question for ya then.
The wings of the kit I'm building do not sit exactly flush when mated up to the fuse and therefore leaving a little space along the wingchord, mostly underneath. The wings are non removeable and are glued in place now. Should I glass the wings first THEN fill in the crevices and and little spaces where the two meet or fill it in first then glass? I planned on using Bondo for the filling but will it stick to the balsa sheeting of the wing if I put it in there first?This is exactly where I'm at right now on my BD-5 and this is why I hate building kits!!!
This finishing thing always drives me nuts and sounds like a no brainer but I'm giving this one my best effort! (Unlike some of my planes from the past!)LOL!
Myles
The wings of the kit I'm building do not sit exactly flush when mated up to the fuse and therefore leaving a little space along the wingchord, mostly underneath. The wings are non removeable and are glued in place now. Should I glass the wings first THEN fill in the crevices and and little spaces where the two meet or fill it in first then glass? I planned on using Bondo for the filling but will it stick to the balsa sheeting of the wing if I put it in there first?This is exactly where I'm at right now on my BD-5 and this is why I hate building kits!!!
This finishing thing always drives me nuts and sounds like a no brainer but I'm giving this one my best effort! (Unlike some of my planes from the past!)LOL!Myles
04-13-2005 | 07:50 PM
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From: Pendle HillNSW, AUSTRALIA
RE: Glassing with epoxy?
I would do the glassing and priming of the wings first. after they are joined to the fuse then you can fill the gaps and do the final paint.
it is very hard to sand right next to the fuse.
regards
it is very hard to sand right next to the fuse.
regards
04-13-2005 | 08:07 PM
#15
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RE: Glassing with epoxy?
Myles
Is your wing capped with wood at the cord? If not, don't use bondo to fill the gap as it will eat the bare foam (Bondo is polyester based). Use epoxy and micro baloons.
I would fill the gaps and then glass it. That way you can overlap the glass cloth onto the fuse a little bit.
Next time you build, follow TommyWatson's advice and glass & prime the wings before you glue them to the fuse.
Is your wing capped with wood at the cord? If not, don't use bondo to fill the gap as it will eat the bare foam (Bondo is polyester based). Use epoxy and micro baloons.
I would fill the gaps and then glass it. That way you can overlap the glass cloth onto the fuse a little bit.
Next time you build, follow TommyWatson's advice and glass & prime the wings before you glue them to the fuse.
04-13-2005 | 10:49 PM
#16
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RE: Glassing with epoxy?
Yeah, I know I should have done that first! DOH! Sometimes I just don't think straight and I get to damn anxious to see quick results! Thanks for the tip on the Bondo! The wings aren't capped at the root so now I know to stay away from the Bondo! [:-]
Thanks for the tips guys!
Muchly appreciated!
Myles
Sometimes I just don't think straight and I get to damn anxious to see quick results! Thanks for the tip on the Bondo! The wings aren't capped at the root so now I know to stay away from the Bondo! [:-]Thanks for the tips guys!
Muchly appreciated!
Myles
