It seems that Jetcat might be missing out on an opportunity to fill the 12lb turbine gap. left behind by the fall of Ram. Dealers like TGA appeared to have spent a great deal of time and money retrofitting their F15 to fit the Ram500. I would like to see Jetcat come out with a 12lb turbine.

Any comments??

Id like one too

Why not just set the P-80 to 12lbs. ?

Jackjet

Smaller turbines mean even thighter manufacturing tolerances, so by definition not directly lower costs or price (like would be expected).
Personally I see a smaller turbine for jets only as a temporarily phenomenon, for modelers who wish to retrofit their D/F planes to turbines. I believe only few manufacturers see a lot of business opportunities in this gap of the market, the majority wants a turbine in the 10 kgrs (22 lbs) thrust class, and are only held back to even more powerfull/bigger ones because of the additional price.
Setting your turbine to lower output as suggested seems to me an excellent compromise, if your model accepts this size and weight. This is what I also advise any customer who wants JetCats, use a P120 even at lower thrust if you at first wanted a P80. You can use it later on in larger jets, and the P120 is seen as the best all-round turbine in their range at the moment, with the same very short delivery times now as the P80 as well.

Nicolas.

I do not know what the cost difference would be to produce a ram 500 sized turbine compared to a P-80 sized turbine. The ones that are starting to come on the the market and their prices, service and dependability will most likely tell the story.
Wouldn't the smaller turbine allow for a lower cost turbine aircraft package, such as airframe, gear, hardware etc. It might even allow for more of a variety of airframes also, with less production costs of the airframe, hardware and gear.
The goal being to have more affordable turbine aircraft to bring in the new pilots. They can always move to the more expensive kits when their ready or just continue to have fun with the more affordable ones..
Paul

I for one think there is a market for smaller turbines, and the # of engines sold by Wren, RAM (when the 500 was available) and the people that want to see the new pst600 show that.

I will seriously look at the Wren MW44 when it is available, only because it will allow a very small and inexpensive AIRFRAME to be built. Yes, the engines will still be pricey, and thats OK. You will save lots on the plane itself and related items, as smaller accessories such as retracts cost less.

Some of us do love the small planes as much or more than the big ones!

AJC

Would running a P-80 or other turbine at a lesser thrust output
increase the time (life) before any tear down is needed?

Steve

I think that it is best to have compatible turbine/airframe combination. 12lbs turbine is definitely not a "temporary phenomenon" and it is in a class of its own. You don't need the extra weight of the larger turbine in the smaller airframe.

Smaller sized jet will definitely has lower accessories cost and will be more compact to transport. Overall cost to finish the jet will be lower and I think that it is the compact-sized that really attract modeler in the 12lbs class turbine.

Airframes available for the 12lbs class turbine are increasingly available and we will definitely see more of these high performance jets flying around in no time.

PST J600 and TJT 3000 are flying world-wide and just in the USA that they are awaiting AMA approval before formal distribution.

Keep flying!
B777
www.pstjets.com
www.tjt.bz

I think small diameter is the answer. There is no room for fuel
in small aircraft. We could use a longer turbine to help with fuel burn. I do not see cost as a problem. If it takes more money
and you need a small turbine so be it.
Darryl Usher an JetCat rep. www.acsip.com/~dgu

Has Everyone forgot about Simjet? I realize they have had some problems. Think about it there IS NOT one manufacture that hasn't. I have a 1200 and it is flawless. It makes 12.6 pounds on my stand. Starts and runs every time. Now not to sugar coat things , this is my second the first one was junk. I think now they have found and fixed a lot of those new unforseen problems. I would buy another.

Hey Trevor,Where is my 25.00 or have I been 'hooked' too?

Thank you for your vote of confidence Trevor.

Trevor is correct. The earlier 1200s had some software and hardware issues which have now been resolved. They come in two standard configurations, auto air start and auto electric start. They are fully AMA approved and are available through us. The manual has also been vastly improved.

We test every engine as a system before it leaves our facility. That provides us, and our customer, with an engine performance verification as well a system check. We create a file on the engine and track everytime it comes in for service.

Speaking of service. We will be able to handle all engine repairs by the end of the year. We are currently awaiting delivery of our new balancing machine. Once it has been installed, we will be able to perform all levels of service without having to send engines back to Denmark.

Kevin and I have spent the last few months learning the engines and working with SimJet to resolve issues. This has resulted in greatly improved customer satisfaction. We know that we still have a ways to go before we can overcome the bad image SimJet gained earlier this year. Kevin and I are here to stay.

We will have a number of 1200s available at Superman for immediate sale.

If anyone has any questions, please feel free to contact Kevin or I at the following addresses:

RCU: Kevin(KevinM) or Ed(rcav8tr)
E-mail: [email protected]

Sincerely,
Ed

If you want a small turbine then the WREN MW 54 ready built up or as a kit, or the superb PST 600 will fill the bill perfectly. The autostart PST 600 works j to perfection.
Whatever happened to te SWB Mamba?
BRG,
David Gladwin

I also thing that there is a bigger market for smaller jets. Like others pointed out, it's not just the cost of the engine that keeps some away, it's the cost of the airframe. Brakes, good servos, heavy retracts, kevlar tanks...it all adds up. And a seven pound plane is just a lot less commitment, expense, and hazard than a 20 pound one.

My thought here is just that you should have a good combination of thrust-to-weight ratio without the burden of extra weight to increase the wing loading.

Turbine installation is also the key to thrust. Many installations reported 20% thrust loss once placed in the airframe but these losses can be retrieved with proper installation. The point is some time you think that the turbine is too small but in fact it is more than adequate. You don't need one-to-one ratio!! Ex. F15 will fly with 1:2.5 to 3.0 ratio due to high lift fuse/wing.

Have fun whatever you are flying...props,D/F, or turbine. I still have a good collection of "WWII Warbirds" (these birds are difficult to convert to turbine!!)

B777
www.pstjets.com
www.tjt.bz

Is that your Avonds f15 shown in the last RCJI? I thought it was pretty interesting that you were only using the PST 600, and wondered how it flew with that...pretty model, by the way...

Says who??? I like 1:1 T/W, or better yet 1.2:1 so much more fun than struggling around the pattern. Not every underpowered airplane is an example of a poor turbine installation. Some just need more power.

DR

Pilots,
I know that everyone will not agree with me on this-but I personally think that weight is a non issue-look at it this way-I can install a P160 in a small A/C-set it at 12lbs-and it will run a VERY long time before needing major service-and burn less fuel than some smaller turbines - it may weigh 2lbs more over all-so what? - no problem-a lot of engines in full size A/C are derated-and they fly just fine. Lets say I have a jet that supposed to weigh 13lbs. fueled ready to fly-I can add another 2lbs and it will STILL fly good-that's why you have flaps and speed brakes,leading edge devices,etc.Look how good a 747 can fly-it can weigh 800,000lbs. and 'only' has 240,000llbs total thrust-it flys very well. I just think with the size of our models-and the power we have-a few extra pounds are no big deal-J.M.O.


Jackjet

Disagree totally, completely.
A full scale airliner is a poor analogy. They have the Reynolds numbers on their side.
All this stuff becomes MUCH more critical, the smaller the plane becomes. I just built a 39" Sabre. On THAT plane, two pounds would be the difference between flying and not flying. Period. And there is a big difference between an Mw44 based plane, and a P-80 based plane. Apples and oranges.
I don't know if Jetcat desperately needs to get into the R500/12 pound class...there are several choices there already, and several more coming. But the SMALLER class that is coming out, the MW44, JS50, well...I think that market will be booming.

Easytiger,

thats what I like about the USA-we can all have our own opinions-anyway-I have no problem with extra weight-my planes fly real well. As far as R numbers-look how small the wings are on a cruise missile-and they weigh around 3000lbs with 700lbs of thrust-the wings are SMALL and they still fly good.........

Jackjet

Ummm...probably have a hard time getting a cruise missle down into my local field. What's the stall speed? 100mph?
I beleive that if they are being recovered(most of them are on one way trips!) they do so by parachute...

Easytiger,

if I found a crashed cruise missile engine would I have to give it back to the govt.?

Jackjet

Yep. Send it to me, and I'll make sure it gets into the right hands.

yes,I know you would. ha!ha!

Jackjet

I am a brand new customer for a turbine.

The small package, miserly fuel consumption and (hopefully) smaller price tag gives the small ones an edge, plus the reduced diameter allows more cooling/venting air to pass over the turbine in enclosed installations. The downside is the high RPM and concern for bearing life. ...and the noise! I have heard 3 different makes of small turbines running, and all of them produce a sound level that is unacceptably high for my tastes. The little guys have a place in smaller models, but I sure hope some efforts are made to quiet them down a bit.

So, a big turbine loafing along at 12lbs thrust will fill the bill, and allow me to grow into larger models sometime in the future. Availability, and convenient service nearby, but some technical features that appealed to me, led me to choose the TJT 3000. It should it here real soon...