speedaholic

My Feedback: (4)

one more thing, i saw that the jj1400 is 1342.00 ready to run, is this full auto start or the manual start version, what is included for that price, thanks

airbuspilot2

Full auto start

G-ROOKIE

My Feedback: (51)

Here is the US Rep. info.

Gabriel Brown
2129 Hayes
Portales NM, 88130
505-749-1970
www.JetJoeUS.com
[email protected]

speedaholic

My Feedback: (4)

what is the size of the jj1200 diameter wise, is it like a wren44 or bigger?? thanks

jsf125

My Feedback: (12)

Hey guys,

I just wanted to share with you my very first turbine flights. It is a stingray with a Full auto start JJ1400. I will try to post a flight video on putfile and post the link here.

The JJ is the part that has a very long story to tell. I bought it about 6 months ago, and have been messing with it ever since. At first it wouldn’t start, then once that got straightened out, it would idle, but it would flame out whenever I would go to accelerate quickly. I tried increasing the acceleration delay up to 120, but still no luck.
At this point I had been messing with it for about a month. I finally got up my courage to open it up and see if I could figure out what was causing the trouble. To make a long story of troubleshooting short, my bearings had been fried, my preload was stuck, I wasn’t getting enough lubrication, the rotor assembly was way out of balance, my CC wasn’t melting yet, but the fuel injector needles were badly blocked, and I had massive air leaks all around the outer cover seam.
First I sent the rotor assembly to RTI to get it dynamically balanced and fitted with new bearings. Then I fixed the preload system by removing the rear O ring permanently and sanding/polishing the inside of the shaft tunnel to the point where the preload sleeve wasn’t “dancing� with plenty of room, but so that it would simply glide back and forth. I knew that once the lubrication entered the tunnel and coated the sleeve it would slide even better. At this point I decided to order a new Inconel CC just so that my engine would be “up to date� and potentially last longer too. When I got the Inconel CC I checked the needles, and they were all free of blockage.
Before I put the engine back together, I needed to take care of the lubrication line. Mine was obviously too small. So, I made a new one out of the tubing from the old CC that used to be in the engine. As per Airbuspilot’s post, I crimped the end of the line so that the flame was three times bigger than any one of the fuel injector needles while they were both hooked up to a gas supply at the same time.

Finally I was able to put the engine back together. At this point I had taken apart and put the engine back together about 30 million times, so I was getting it down to a method of madness. LOL!! To take care of the air leak problem, I got some High temp silicon and forced it into and under the outer cover’s front seam. This took care of the air leak completely. Now I could be sure that the CC was getting all of the air that it was supposed to be getting.
I started the engine, and everything seemed to be awesome, but about three starts later, you could see small and varying puffs of black smoke and sparks come out the tail cone somewhat at random. It was getting worse; I was losing the ability to accelerate without excessive flaming. It finally got to the point where the engine would start, but as soon as I went to accelerate, the flames would roar out the tail cone forcing me to shut down the engine. I was very disappointed. So I once again took the engine apart and my worst fear was affirmed. My brand new Inconel CC was incinerating. (see pictures)
I contacted Mr. Brown who is our US Jet Joe rep, and explained my situation to him. In the end, he got me a brand new replacement Inconel CC, and now I am up and flying.

Currently the engine has plenty of power, the acceleration time is unbelievable, and I finally have a turbine engine that I can trust my airplane to.

I just wanted to post and tell you guys that I was very impressed with the support and service from Mr. Brown.


Brandon

airbuspilot2

Is like wren 54

jsf125

My Feedback: (12)

Hey,

Here is the link to the video I uploaded. It is about 10 megs I think.

http://media.putfile.com/First-two-t...nd-YA-Stingray

The first flight goes very well. I am just trying to get a feel for flying a turbine powered jet so there isn't really any high speed stuff..... yet!! I can't wait to go flying again! The second flight is cut short due to radio problems. I have since discovered that my voltage regulator was going bad! You will see the jet role completely over and then back level. It was very nerve racking to know that I was losing control of my jet. I was fortunate and was able to land the first time.

Later,
Brandon

airbuspilot2

Nice fly and glad to know that you have your turbine running good and the best you did yourself

jsf125

My Feedback: (12)

While I was thinking of it, I thought that maybe you guys would be interested in seeing the latest version of the Inconel CC that Joe is making. When I say version I mean quality. The one shown below is a lot cleaner, and all around it is better looking than the previous one I had. The spot welds are clean and not "blown out." Take a look at the inner part of the CC. I can almost see reflections in it! The silver soldering work is very good as well. I am just very impressed with the latest offerings.

Later,
Brandon

rcdriver22

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Guys

Over the last few months I've PM'd advice several times and sent FOC a Fadec Data cable to a guy here online in order to assist him get his JJ1400's running. By chance I mentioned this to a fadec tech who informed me that the guy I was helping is a listed
National Jetjoe Rep[:-][>:][:@]

No can't be true!!!!!! this guy wanted me to rebuild his JJ1400 as he was unhappy sending it back to China, so I had then laid out the various fixes to get him operational. A link to rcgroups and sure enough the guy has been Joes rep for months[:-][:-]

Now I'm really a bit pissed off[>:] as a Rep you must disclose your role up front here at RCuniverse and cannot say Jetjoe is a great product when you are his Rep. Further when you are having multiple problems on your own turbine and are given advice to remedy them, its strictly not cricket to pass this knowledge off as your technical insight or imply the fixes as being your Jetjoe remedy.

Paul
Rcdriver

causeitflies

Is this Rep in the UK?

rcdriver22

My Feedback: (1)

No, much further away other side of the globe. Its up to him to rectify his future posts disclosing his relationship or the mods may pull his membership or posts.

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Heh. JetJoe has not exactly had a stellar track record with dealers, have they!
First there was JetJoe USA that imploded two days after they started.
Then there was JetJoe USA number two run by the seventeen year old kid.
Then you have Modellbau Pollack and the vicious review in the German magazine.
The list goes on. I think substandard dealers are a big part of the problem, but I'd guess there is so little profit in these engines, and so much support needed, that I cannot blame anyone for not banging down the door to get a dealership!
I was an early supporter of JJ. Got the first one in the USA, as far as I know. Went through all sorts of stuff to get it running, including going back to China twice. Finally, when I DID get it running right, now I hear the guy I sold it to(in an aircraft, it was a package) is now having problems with it. When I sold it to him, I would have sworn on a stack of Bibles(or Torahs, or Korans, or I Chings, take your pick) that the engine was running fine, that all problems were solved. Now it's not.
There is a very disturbing tendency here...that once the engines get sorted out and running fine, THEN they start to deteriorate. It seems pretty consistent. My own engine got the new combustion chamber about a year ago(free of charge, have to say, JJ has been okay about support), and now the guy I sold it to is saying it needs a NEW new combustion chamber(for $90, not outrageous). So, when someone starts saying that here's a new CC that will solve the problems, well, I will wait and see.
I think the new JJ rep may not really know what he is getting into. He MAY have solved the problems, but I SUSPECT that he just does not have enough time on his engines to have EXPERIENCED the problems. He got one running, and got maybe a handful of flights on it at superman. That's great. But let's see it after FIFTY flights. Let's see ANY JJ with fifty flights on it. Every time you ask for flight shots, people clam right up. Airbuspilot has a handful of flights with his, and now thinks his problems are solved...well, I felt the same way, and got stung.
I hope that JJ can someday make a really useable product, but as far as I have seen, this has not happened yet. I see after several years, they still can't make a decent fuel pump or CC, and that quality control in general is still a big issue.

As far as the new larger engine goes, I would love to hear more. It's been suspiciously quiet on that front, nobody is saying a thing.

I wish JJ and their new US rep all the luck in the world, but I would hardly say that all the problems have been solved just yet, and I don't know if their new rep is even really AWARE of the problems. I hope it all works out.

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Who is the guy? That's lame.
On a different tack, I thought YOU were a JetJoe rep? What is the story with Angsley Turbines and all that? I never got the who and what straight, are they still the UK rep?

rcdriver22

My Feedback: (1)

C'mon ET, is not for me to out this JJ Rep (just yet) as he can easily remedy the position himself by simply stating his position and posting here.

Curtis in the UK there are some JJ1400s with over 40+ flights, these to my knowledge were mainly retro fitted mainly by Anglesey Turbines. Since Andy packed up there have been four UK Reps have come and gone. Anglesey ONLY as such replaced the original combustion chambers, rebalanced (or should that be balanced) and did a bunch of mods and I've never been a JJ rep. One later UK rep just sold up and got some Simjet turbines. I still have operational JJ1400s but at each service other problems need addressing, so buy a lathe if you decide on another JJ.

Paul

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Would this guy be from South America, by any chance?

Angsley seemed to know what they were doing, did not know he had folded up.
That's what I keep hearing and seeing...that just when you think you have the problems licked, along comes another one. And well-meaning guys, like me, get their engine running, and post that everything is okay, then a short time down the road, find that they are not. I tend to wonder if the new JJusa guy will find the same. Or maybe he WILL get the problems really solved. I hope so.
Shattering silence on teh new larger engine, though. Maybe it has problems, too, I do not know.

airbuspilot2

Hi All,

I think Paul is talking about me and the answer is yes I am a dealer for Chile, but I have not sell any engine to any one yet because I am not going to sell an engine if I do not think is ready.

I made myself a rep because I want to get dealer discount for my own engines and I have to say that Paul help me a lot making my engines to run but I never think that those tips where a mystery so I give them to other people not for money because I think our hobby is about learn and help other people.

I have been flying from U-control, helicopters, gliders, aerobatics and now jets for more than 20 years and for me this hobby is not a business is a way of life and I have helped and teach how to fly to hundred of guys. That why I think JetJoes engines are so important because low prices could make a lot of people get into Jets engines.

My engines are older ones and I make them with lot of help running very good, so I am pride from what I have did and learned. So I think I could help people here in Chile to get a good running engine for a low price.

My apologies if I made a mistake with Paul advices.

airbuspilot2

this time have been logged with new inconel combustion camber because I changed the fadec at the same time, I burned the old[:@]

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

If you are a rep, you should have said so.

Anyway....

34 starts. That's basically still a new engine. I suspect you will be doing some sort of work again on the engine before you reach 50. But MAYBE you have it really cured. I do not know.

As far as pricing goes, flying a JetJoe for $599 is still pure fantasy, no ECU is included for that. Also, you need to add on the cost of a good useable fuel pump, making that autostart jetjoe package more like $1500. And I do not believe solenoids are included eitehr. Still less than anybody else, but a normal price for a second-hand engine like a RAM or PST.
IF you get your engine running right out of the box, for $1500, and you get fifty or more flights out of it, then that's a good deal. That's $600 or so less than the next guy's engine, I belive the T-500 is $2100, not sure what the Wren is.
Here's the kicker, though: the moment you need some major service, or you dork an airplane because the engine flames out, or you have to send it back to china, it does not seem like such a bargain anymore.
Realistically speaking, the engine is not THAT much less than the other brands. If you went for an airstart one, you could potentially get flying for around $1100 or so. That would be a substantial savings, and I guess for some guys, it's the choice between having a turbine and not having one at all.
Still, I have not seen that the problems with these engines have been truly solved, but I have an open mind.
Still nobody reporting on the bigger engine? Nobody?

dw_crash

My Feedback: (6)

EasyTiger,

I understand what you are saying. The engine I have, to my knowledge has at least 2 trips back to China. The first time you sent it for servicing. They made some changes and gave it a clean bill of health. Then, I bought it from you, it started and ran at idle, full power or inbetween. It just flamed out if you throttled up or down at more than a snails pace. JetJoe checked their service records. They found that they had installed, for you, the older CC which they found the problem I described. Their latest version apparently cures it. So I sent it away for upgrading.

I asked about testing of the engine. JetJoe tells me that do 3 starts and runs of 10 minutes. They run the power up and down on it. This makes sure everything is working as it should. They also tweak the ECU settings. Being winter here, I have not had a chance to run it since I got it back from China. The bill, including postage two ways, was nearly $300 cdn. Not a cheap fix.....(and it didn't include the autostart bullet starter. still waiting for it in the mail. HINT HINT)

I will run the engine, next summer, and see what it does on the Reaper. I have invested too much in it to sell it. I would get, what, maybe what the repairs costs me????? So, I'll run it till it explodes or dies again....

I will watch this thread and see how others make out. Once, I hear of hundreds of flights, without hiccups, then I might consider a second JJ1400. But not till then.... Or, the one I have last a few hundred flights.

Thanks,
DW_Crash

rcdriver22

My Feedback: (1)

ET

When you have burnt 100ltrs (gross up for added oil thats nearly 1.5 hours between 100k to max) through a JJ1400 then after all the mods you get a different insight. Basically, engineering clearances are critical to good long life. On good turbines the rear O ring sits in its groove and "holds the outer race" forming a seal allowing oil in between the ceramic balls. On the JJ the fitting is so tight it can be an 'interference fit' between tunnel and bearing race outer, hence the pre load fails to operate and sticks. OK best to cut the O ring flush in the tunnel or deepen the O ring grove but if you remove the O ring completely to get the pre load to operate, then the outer race can turn or oscillate forming flats on the ceramic balls and hence rear bearing wear. Combine with too little oil or even too much oil (bad) causes wear due to flats forming at start up (hence suggesting 3% oil content but double flow rate). This non concentric operation at 160000 rpm without a 'complete full balancing' results in wear between shaft outer and the NGV (where again the clearances leaves a lot to be desired) this may form either galling on the shaft or turbine grounding on NGV due to clearances.

So you've bought your new JJ1400, altered the Combustion Chamber to inconel, refitted a new lube flow restrictor, checked the bearings, the O ring pre load, fuel manifold and paid for a full rebalancing. Stripped it and built it up some many many times, its only a few afternoons and you get to be as fast as Carlos at RTI. Its the non response to emails back from the factory[:-][:-] I think you are not really to run these turbines for very long or if you do then you want some spares to make regular repairs.

Paul

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

I think you should test run it, right away, and see if the repairs he did are any good. Remember, I sent it back already, I belive twice, and it got a "clean bill of health". It DID appear to be running just fine when I sold it, and it really pains me to hear that you are having problems. I feel more than a little bamboozled to hear that they put in one of the old combustion chambers instead of the new one. That's just lame.

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

I hear you.
When I got mine, it was a great experiment. I understood there might be some issues. To hear that those issues are not really resolved after, what, two years, is a real dissapointment. Many engines being sold, but there are many out there with major issues that are not being taken care of.

dw_crash

My Feedback: (6)

ET,

You are right! Two years is too long to not work the bugs out. It must be incredibly expensive for JetJoe. Especially, when they had a template to work from.

I observe that most of the problems are related to quality control or material quality. JetJoe needs to understand that a turbine needs both to work properly and for a long time. Lets hope they get it sorted out.

DW_Crash

Boomerang1

I cannot believe the hassle people are putting up with all to mistakenly think they will get a 'good cheap turbine'. There is no such thing. A fellow club member bought one of these things, had nothing but trouble and has now woken up & bought what he should have bought in the first place, a reputable brand with a good reputation. And he hasn't even decked a plane due to engine failure (although he did toast the tailplane when his JJ went bang.) His comment - yeah, yeah, you guys warned me.

I guess these things are like hitting yourself on the head with a hammer, it feels good when you stop. - John.