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Old 07-02-2005, 06:58 PM
  #1  
Pete S-RCU
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Default Panther

I'm almost ready to fly the Ziroli Panther I built this winter. I'm using a 1200-18 Simjet with 18 lbs thrust for power.
Plane weighs 18.5 lbs, only needs paint on the fuse. Will probably weigh 20 lbs wet.
Some of my friends are questioning the structural integrity of the plane.
Those of you that have built a turbine poweredZiroli Panther, what did you do to strengthen the airframe?
Formers F9 & 10 are 1/8" lite ply on the plans. I laminated two together to make 1/4" thick formers. I extended the wing tube as far into the fuse as I could, about 5". I added extra plywood formers to support the wing tubes. I also laminated 1/4" plywood across the tops of formers F9 & 10 to replace the wood cut out when I cut out the canopy.
I also made a third plywood rib to support the wing tube in the wing farther into the wing.
I think this is adequate, but would like some other opinions.


Old 07-02-2005, 07:54 PM
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Default RE: Panther

Pete,

Eric Carl from Robart has been flying the Ziroli Panther over the last couple of year's with a Funsonic 12 lb. class turbine, and to my knowledge, it is built stock. It is a very realistic flier with this combination and has great presence in the air. Look's like it may be to late on your part, as your's is almost ready too fly, but I believe I would have done some beefing in the H-stab....look's pretty fragile for 18 lb. class turbine application's.

I will add that this particular Panther had previously flown with a Ram 750 if I recall correctly. WD-40 may want to verify that statement.
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Old 07-02-2005, 09:06 PM
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Pete S-RCU
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Default RE: Panther

That is a concern, I was hoping the fiber glass would add enough strength to that area.
I'm sure I will never use full power except on take off. This will have to be a scale flier, not a hot rod.
Old 07-02-2005, 10:45 PM
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Shok
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Default RE: Panther

Im sure your going to gain more than 1.5 lbs wet.

I would guestimate closer to 23lbs wet.
Old 07-03-2005, 12:08 AM
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wd40
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Default RE: Panther

I had a jetcat p120 in it and I put .007 carbion fiber strips on the spars in the tail. Do you have my old Panther?
Old 07-03-2005, 12:12 AM
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Default RE: Panther

What did all you do with the canopy and the way it attaches to the Fuselage?


Turbulence

Old 07-03-2005, 05:29 AM
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Default RE: Panther


ORIGINAL: wd40

I had a jetcat p120 in it and I put .007 carbion fiber strips on the spars in the tail. Do you have my old Panther?

Mike,

I am the one that has your old Panther. After you mentioned the C/F strips, I went back and looked as I didn't see them before. They are visible in the pic if you look close enough. I don't think Pete did this though.
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Old 07-03-2005, 06:59 AM
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Default RE: Panther


ORIGINAL: Turbulence

What did all you do with the canopy and the way it attaches to the Fuselage?


Turbulence

Ralph,

It look's like the canopy is glued and then faired in using a putty.... be it bondo or whatever suit's the need.
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Old 07-03-2005, 07:51 AM
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Default RE: Panther

Pete,

I reckon you will be hitting 25/27 lbs when ready (rtf I mean) especially if you add a touch of scale items on it (zuni rockets I mean)

Just take it easy on the finishing touches.

Regards

Reuben

Old 07-03-2005, 08:02 AM
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Pete S-RCU
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Default RE: Panther

I weighed it last night, 18.75 lbs. I have approx 100 oz tank.
I didn't use any carbon fiber in the tail. I guess I trusted that Ziroli had done this before so knew what it needed.
I figured the glass would add enough strength.
What flight conditions caused the stab to break?
Do I need to reinforce my stab? I would even consider external braces if necessary/
Has anyone had a problem with the strength of the wing tubes?
WD40, how much did your Panther weigh?
Old 07-03-2005, 08:33 AM
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Default RE: Panther

What flight conditions caused the stab to break?

Pete,

In this particular case, the stabs were not broken. I cut them off in preparation for using this fuse as a plug for a future mold. There were area's that I needed to reconstruct in the process as seen in the nose gear area.
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Old 07-03-2005, 10:18 AM
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Pete S-RCU
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Default RE: Panther

I just put my fuel tank on a scale and zeroed it. I then filled it with fuel........, 5 lbs...... I couldn't believe it!
This thing will weigh 24 lbs ready to fly.
I really thought when I started this thing, I could keep it light. I have no scale detailing, it's just going to be a sporty scale jet.
So if the tail didn't break in flight, is it a problem that's happend a lot?
If I take it easy I should be ok?
No one has said anything about wing mount failures, not a problem?

I glued my canopy on and filled in the edges with model magic.
Old 07-03-2005, 12:18 PM
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Default RE: Panther

Pete,

I wouldn't get overly excited about the H-stab. It would have obviously been better to have beefed it in the construction stage as WD40 did, but I don't think you will see the stresses imposed on the stab like you would on the wing. If you keep it in the 120 -130 mph range and no high G maneuver's, I believe it will be fine. You beefed the most critical area and 24 lbs. should not be a problem.

There is a lot of lifting area generated from the fuse it's self....not solely dependent on the wing area. I say go fly it and use good throttle management and you should be fine. As for report's of wing or stab failure's, there have been none to my knowledge....but there have not been that many of the built up Ziroli Panthers built that are turbine powered, and the construction technique's used in those that have are unknown...by me anyway.
Old 07-03-2005, 12:35 PM
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Pete S-RCU
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Default RE: Panther

Thanks Country Boy, that's the conclusion I came to too.
Hard part will be keeping the throttle under control. I like to go fast.
Old 07-03-2005, 01:14 PM
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Default RE: Panther


ORIGINAL: Pete S-RCU

Hard part will be keeping the throttle under control. I like to go fast.
I think this is going to be a case where you are going to have to put the restraint's on.

Remind's me of the two old guy's sitting on the porch of the country store and there is an old hound dog laying there. The hound reaches around and lick's his self and the one old guy say's to the other "I wish I could do that", and the other old guy replies.... You better not, that dog might bite you.

I'd say if you get to throttle happy, it may be a case of the old dog biting you.
Old 07-03-2005, 08:49 PM
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Pete S-RCU
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Default RE: Panther

Your right, gotta whatch that dog.
I checked the fuel specs on my engine and it uses 8.1 oz/min at full throttle.
The tank I have in there is 106 oz's. Thats 5 lbs of fuel.
That would keep me up for over 13 mins.
I'm thinking of a Dubro 50 oz tank. That would keep me going for 6 min at full power, which I won't use.
5-6 mins is a reasonable flight time. My Roo I fly for 5 min with some to spare for a go around if needed.
Thats at full throttle all the time. That would chop a couple pounds off my weight.
I gotta think about this a little.
Old 07-10-2005, 03:31 PM
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Default RE: Panther

Well Pete, you get a chance to fly that Panther yet ? Got any pic's you want to share ?
Old 07-10-2005, 09:35 PM
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Default RE: Panther

here is a panther dan gill and myself test flew last weekend. it is all composite from tooling dan made. barry
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Old 07-10-2005, 10:05 PM
  #19  
Pete S-RCU
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Default RE: Panther

It's ready, but the winds have been strong and right across the runway. I'm waiting for wind right down the runway.
Tried taxing it down the driveway crosswind and it really wanted to weathervane bad. Big tail on that plane.
I have some pics on my other computer, will have to post a few.

Any advice from guys that have flown this plane?
Is the CG and control throws pretty close to ideal?
Does it have any bad habits I should know about etc.?
Lost a jet two weeks ago to radio failure,and so I'm a little nervous about flying this thing
Old 07-11-2005, 05:56 AM
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u2fast
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Default RE: Panther

pete, although my panther is larger, i agree, wait for the wind to be down the runway. i test flew mine in 15 to 20 mph winds straight down the runway and it made landing speeds easy. i also had a ziroli panther years ago, i finished her out but sold her before flying her. good luck on the maiden, as long as the panther is balanced it is very easy to fly. i have seen eric from robart fly his many times and she flies very good. good luck and take some pics, barry
Old 07-11-2005, 11:59 AM
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Pete S-RCU
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Default RE: Panther

Here's a few pics I took a few days ago.

Keep in mind, this is just a sporty scale jet.
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Old 07-11-2005, 02:14 PM
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Default RE: Panther

Pete, Where are your fuel tanks?
Old 07-11-2005, 06:22 PM
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Default RE: Panther

I will be starting this project with a friend in a couple of months,as soon as the parts come in. the plans show it as a ducted fan, with about 12lbs of thrust and 16 to 20 lbs weight. I will use a P-60 with 13lbs thrust and with about 60 oz. of fuel should come in under 20lbs. but that is all theory at this point. hey did anyone of you make the inner flaps?
Old 07-11-2005, 06:29 PM
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Pete S-RCU
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Default RE: Panther

Fuel tanks, I knew I forgot something.
The fuel tank goes right in front of the air intakes.
I had a Jet Tech 106 oz tank in there, but it held 5 lbs of fuel.
I thought no way is that 1200 going to need that much fuel. So I put in a Dubro 50 oz tank.
My engine burns 8 oz/min at full power, so I should be good for 6 min.
I will limit my flights to 5 min and I plan to fly at reduced power so it should be sufficient.
I will do short flights at first till I do some checking.
Old 07-11-2005, 07:36 PM
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Default RE: Panther


ORIGINAL: Pete S-RCU

Here's a few pics I took a few days ago.

Keep in mind, this is just a sporty scale jet.

Pete,

That is a damn fine looking sport jet. I would ten to one rather see something like this as a sport plane as compared to Roo's, Rookie's, Hotspot's... etc. Hope your maiden goes off without a hitch !!!


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