Topgun2mo

My Feedback: (45)

I see hear alot of people use West Systems Epoxy and I was wondering what components are generally used for layups of glass over balsa wing skins. Any other uses????

Thanks

Mike

Jetman007

My Feedback: (6)

Used for laminating, repairing, glassing, part construction . . . whatever you could think of!

WEST Systems is a well engineered epoxy system suitable for just about any epoxy application you could think of. It wets out with fiberglass, Kevlar and carbon fiber superbly and bonds to any kind of wood. Sands great and is high strength compared to some hobby finishing resins. Makes your glassed surfaces more dent resistant.

Can be used as a filler or fillet material with the addition of cab-o-sil or glass spheres. Add milled fibers for high strength or add chopped cf for custom molded small parts.

Uses handy hand pumps for automatic ratio control of resin and hardener. Couldn't be easier. See www.gougeon.com for more information.

Available online at www.Arts-Hobby.com

BSEC

My Feedback: (1)

I was turned on to West Systems product here and have to say THANKS! to the folks who mentioned it.

I had no idea there was an adhesive option as versatile as this. The initial cost seems a little overwhelming but I’d say it’s well worth it. I’m not sure I can say I’ll never use “Hobby Epoxy” again, but as it stands now I can’t see why I would. I love the way you can customize a batch for just about any application. Viscosity, cure-time, color, etc…. all selectable based on how you build your batch.

Neat stuff for sure….

Brad

A104FREAK

My Feedback: (2)

I too use and swear West systems epoxy. I use it in most all epoxy applications I come across. I get it at my local automotive paint, and body repair supplier. I think that the Gougeon web site listed in the previous post provides links to dealers near you.

Jim

lov2flyrc

My Feedback: (24)

One word for West Systems.....Awesome !

Todd

Topgun2mo

My Feedback: (45)

I see there is one basic resin and are many different hardeners. Do you find that there is one hardener that is "multi-purpose" or is the way to go is get different hardeners for different purposes?...for instance which hardener for glassing a wing? I guess this stuff is great for making bonds too!

KevinBarr

My Feedback: (27)

Was using the "off The Shelf" finishing resins, I got into a big job that required allot of glassing ( two large A-10's), I gave West Stystems a try....Awesome Stuff...won't use anything else...

Kevin Barr

Bobman

My Feedback: (5)

Mike,

I use the 205 hardner for most of my work, but like the 206 for sheeting & glass cloth because it gives me a little extra work time. Something not mentioned here (yet) was the safety of using resins. Although I've found West to be "safer" than most for toxicicty, it still can cause trouble with mis-use over the years. Wear gloves & keep it off your skin, do the normal ventilation thing, especially when laying up large panels. This stuff has less of an odor than others, but the fumes still aren't good for you. Another big one is sanding.... ANY resins are bad for you if ingested, especially if they're not fully cured. Please wear a GOOD dustmask when sanding, & give it plenty of time to cure. Not only will your body thank you, you're plane will look better too!

Good luck,
Bob

Johng

My Feedback: (4)

I've been using gloves that look like super-heavy duty dishwashing gloves for some months now. The epoxy just shedds off of the gloves when it cures.

I started doing so when I realized that a night in the shop often gave me a "hangover" the next morning, including a sore throat. Avoid skin contact with the stuff.

One other point: THis stuff is not a high temp resin. It looses strength somewhere not very far over 100 F. That's why alot of homebuilt planes are white, they don't need to absorb heat on the ramp. If you have structure somewhere near a heat source, like a tailpipe, you might be better of with another resin. What's the temp limit on aeropoxy?

Bobman

My Feedback: (5)

John,

Similar problems for me too... learned that the exposure to resins can be cumulative over a long period of time. Guess I learned my lesson a little too late?

I didn't think this resin was too much different in temp range than others available, other than some special hi-temp stuff? That being said, I've never really TESTED this stuff either. Good point though....

Bob

Johng

My Feedback: (4)

Data for West Systems:

http://www.cstsales.com/Epoxy_&_Mold...epoxy_data.htm

- shows that it is only trustworthy up to about 120 F. Above that it can soften, delaminate, etc.

This Hysol data sheet shows that 9462 ( same as aeropoxy) is good to 225F, although it's only a fraction of it's room temp strength at that point. Hysol has some epoxies good to 400 F by that sheet.

Then, there's always JB-weld for the real hot-spots, although any place where you might have a ply bulkhead probably shouldn't be getting much hotter than 200F

Kevin_W

My Feedback: (1)

Since Hysol 9462 (Aeropoxy) is a structural epoxy, and West Systems is a laminating epoxy I don't see the relevance for comparing the two.

Johng

My Feedback: (4)

Hmm, maybe it has to do with the fact that many people use West Systems as a structural epoxy, as referenced throughout this thread. I know I do. :stupid: There is significant overlap in their applications.

Just to be clear, Aeropoxy/9462 is not a direct replacement for West Systems. In certain applications where high heat is expected, 9462 or some other epoxy may be a better choice.

I love West Systems for molding, glassing, and structural stuff when used with cabosil. Didn't want to seem like I was busting on it. Just has a relatively low temp limit.

BTW - I left the url for the hysol data sheet off my earlier post:

http://www.glueguru.com/HyEpSelecGuide.htm

Topgun2mo

My Feedback: (45)

Thanks Guys,
this was the type of discussion I was hoping to generate! Lots of good info.

Mike

Bobman

My Feedback: (5)

Hey John,

Thank you for the data.... I never realized that there was that big of a difference in temp ratings. I'll pay a little more attention to that in the future, although I typically use Aeropoxy to put my fuse formers in anyways. Curious what is used in the layup of different manufacturers glass fuses now. Also, what about poleyester resin? (i.e. older Yellow kits & Byron?) I can't really recall anybody ever complaning about a fuse warping or delaminating, other than improper turbine installs to start with, so maybe this really isn't a problem?

Anyway, it's still good to know!

Kevin, I use this stuff for most of my general construction work also, including glass cloth & CF around hatches, formers, etc., so I guess that's still considered laminating even though it's construction? I think the difference here is that the West Systems epoxy isn't directly marketed as a "finishing resin" like Z-Poxy, polyester resin, etc. Personally, I think it makes a great all around adhesive.

Thanks,
Bob

Kevin Greene

My Feedback: (85)

Who has the best price on the West Systems Epoxy? I want to order some today. Which hardener should I use for glassing wings and general lay-up work?

Thanks, Kevin

lov2flyrc

My Feedback: (24)

Kevin,
Not sure who has the best pricing, I buy it locally at the local auto body supply house. Price seems to be about average (24.00) as other places....For glassing wings I use 206, gives a bit more working time and as always with epoxies, the longer the cure the stronger the finish. For doing fillets , bonding, etc... I use the 205.
If you need to thin it, which I do slightly when glassing wings, use either denatured alcohol or my preference, acetone.

Todd

WHMC

My Feedback: (15)

Todd, If you mix acetone with resin to thin do you need to worry about the acetone attacking the foam surfaces? Thanks WHMC

bkf

My Feedback: (5)

If you want West System to flow hit it with a little heat gun action.

Kevin Greene

My Feedback: (85)

Todd,

Thanks for the reply. WHMC, I use denatured alchohol to thin epoxy when glassing foam core wings. If you get one area where the acetone can weep under the skin, the acetone will eat up your foam core faster than you can curse it!!! I use acetone with built up structures only.

I'm going to order my West Systems epoxy through Art's Hobbies. They advertise here and I just received an order from them yesterday. I placed the order Thursday night and despite the postal holiday, it still arrived yesterday! Besides, they are giving away .75 ounce cloth with an internet order! (You must click on the "specials" icon) Kevin

lov2flyrc

My Feedback: (24)

Good question! I have never experienced a problem with this although all the surfaces I've covered using this method have been sheeted with no exposed foam. I can tell you it has never wicked through the sheeting and attacked the foam core. You are not adding allot of acetone to the mix. I find that for one pump of resin/hardener a 1/2 oz of acetone is enough to thin it. West systems epoxy is much thinner than you typical finishing resin like z-poxy which I had used for years (good finish but shrinks too much for my liking). For glassing wings I find it best when you get the resin thinned to a milk consistency, then just pour it on the surface and spread with a playing card/credit card. If you are concerned with acetone attacking the foam just use denatured alcohol to thin....
Todd

F9F Texan

I just placed an order for the West Systems stuff form Art's Hobbies.

I can't wait to get started 'glassing the surfaces on my Avonds F-15

Thanks to all who posted.
Johnny

Johng

My Feedback: (4)

heating the epoxy will make it flow better - it will also make it cure faster, so don't overdo it.

I was experimenting with heating it in the micro a few years ago, no kidding( I'm not married ). 5 seconds on high is plenty for one batch. It will be watery and set in a couple minutes. 3 seconds would probably be a better temp.

I tried 10 seconds once, hee, hee. It went exothermic in my hand while I was walking from the micro to the bench and had to pitch the stuff into a wash basin to keep boiling epoxy from foaming over onto my hand. Man, that was stupid

Topgun2mo

My Feedback: (45)

I always thought that thinning the epoxy allows the wood to be able to absorb more epoxy and that using unthinned epoxy actually can result in a lighter finish as more is squegeed off.

Mike

lov2flyrc

My Feedback: (24)

Mike....True, but the extra weight gained (minimal) is far outweighed by the strength added by allowing the sheeting to wick some of the resin in. It becomes much more dent resistant too.

Todd