COMPOSITE AD PHOENIX
07-29-2005, 04:42 AM
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RE: COMPOSITE BOBCAT ALTERNATIVE
Kevin
If you add a set of springairs and Trim wheels and brakes the whole package should be no more than £1,250 or so, good value for money.
You could add a Wren 54Mk 3 and still be flying for less than the price of a Bobcat. I dont care what anyone says, the Bobcat is seriously overpriced and there is a bit of work to be done such as former installation and glueing the tanks together to complete it.
John
If you add a set of springairs and Trim wheels and brakes the whole package should be no more than £1,250 or so, good value for money.
You could add a Wren 54Mk 3 and still be flying for less than the price of a Bobcat. I dont care what anyone says, the Bobcat is seriously overpriced and there is a bit of work to be done such as former installation and glueing the tanks together to complete it.
John
07-29-2005, 05:10 AM
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RE: COMPOSITE BOBCAT ALTERNATIVE
Hi John
I agree but to say so here is tantamount to heresy. I was about to import a Bobcat airframe only from the States as the complete package is all that is available over here. Even then that would cost around £1800 with freight and import duty. That was until I saw the Phoenix. Given these two choices it's a 'no brainer'!
Kevin
I agree but to say so here is tantamount to heresy. I was about to import a Bobcat airframe only from the States as the complete package is all that is available over here. Even then that would cost around £1800 with freight and import duty. That was until I saw the Phoenix. Given these two choices it's a 'no brainer'!
Kevin
07-29-2005, 05:24 AM
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RE: COMPOSITE BOBCAT ALTERNATIVE
Agreed! European guys seem to have a more differentiated opinion on bang for bucks if BVM is concerned. No hassle, fantastic planes and performers, but IMHO not that fantastic as expensive. But each ones own decission;-)
regards
Thomas
regards
Thomas
07-29-2005, 10:54 AM
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RE: COMPOSITE BOBCAT ALTERNATIVE
How long has this kit been FLYING/CRASHING? There is many things that come in to the picture other than thinking that you are OVER-paying for a particular kit. Notice how many kits have come and gone and the wide-scope of problems the customer ends up having to solve for that kit to be half as successful as the Kits that Bob puts out. I look at his prices and think similarly, but then I also know that Bob personally goes out and tests the airframe and it's secondaries to the max before releasing a kit. BVM is not totally free of updates and modifications, but the consistency and quality they are made has always impressed me. I guess it comes down to what your budget is for that model. I see NO way that someone can say it is the same quality as a BVM aircraft until it goes through the same testing and is out in the field for the same duration. Just look at the track record of BVM...They have never been bought out and are in the same location and easy to contact.
Take note at the next event you go to and see what the majority is and go with what is supported.
Saying this...I've never been a BV rep. and don't currently own a BVM plane, but it is something in my future!
Take note at the next event you go to and see what the majority is and go with what is supported.
Saying this...I've never been a BV rep. and don't currently own a BVM plane, but it is something in my future!
07-29-2005, 01:03 PM
#30
RE: COMPOSITE BOBCAT ALTERNATIVE
Well, having built BVM and AD kits, I for one will emphatically say I would have ZERO issue buying one of these jets. Eric's designs consistently fly amazingly, and I can't remember hearing any problems with AD kits. The price is awesome for what you get, and they build very easily.
Many people have said "sure they're cheaper, but they are more building than BVM" I don't agree with that either. My Exocet was faster to build than my Composite Super Bandit. And the Exocet is sheeted foam wings. I've had many issues with the build on my Super Bandit which I won't get into since I'm not wearing a flame retardant suit, but despite those issues, I know they're a great plane. However, bang for the buck, AD takes the prize. I've already spoken with Helijet and asked Dean to be sure and hold an Angel for me as soon as they're available, not that I'm against the kingcat or bobcat, but personally I think the AD designs look a heck of a lot better, and at the price that's been mentioned, they're half the money, I like that!
So anyway, from somebody who's built and flown airplanes from both manufactures, I can say that I would never have any concerns buying a new airplane from Aviation Design
Many people have said "sure they're cheaper, but they are more building than BVM" I don't agree with that either. My Exocet was faster to build than my Composite Super Bandit. And the Exocet is sheeted foam wings. I've had many issues with the build on my Super Bandit which I won't get into since I'm not wearing a flame retardant suit, but despite those issues, I know they're a great plane. However, bang for the buck, AD takes the prize. I've already spoken with Helijet and asked Dean to be sure and hold an Angel for me as soon as they're available, not that I'm against the kingcat or bobcat, but personally I think the AD designs look a heck of a lot better, and at the price that's been mentioned, they're half the money, I like that!
So anyway, from somebody who's built and flown airplanes from both manufactures, I can say that I would never have any concerns buying a new airplane from Aviation Design
07-29-2005, 01:06 PM
#31
RE: COMPOSITE BOBCAT ALTERNATIVE
ORIGINAL: ShssT Strurrer
Take note at the next event you go to and see what the majority is and go with what is supported.
Take note at the next event you go to and see what the majority is and go with what is supported.
Same thing can be said for the european events where BVM kits aren't as popular, personally, I don't really care for being part of what the majority is using
I prefer individuality.......
07-29-2005, 01:15 PM
#32
RE: COMPOSITE BOBCAT ALTERNATIVE
How long has this kit been FLYING/CRASHING? There is many things that come in to the picture other than thinking that you are OVER-paying for a particular kit. Notice how many kits have come and gone and the wide-scope of problems the customer ends up having to solve for that kit to be half as successful as the Kits that Bob puts out. I look at his prices and think similarly, but then I also know that Bob personally goes out and tests the airframe and it's secondaries to the max before releasing a kit. BVM is not totally free of updates and modifications, but the consistency and quality they are made has always impressed me. I guess it comes down to what your budget is for that model. I see NO way that someone can say it is the same quality as a BVM aircraft until it goes through the same testing and is out in the field for the same duration. Just look at the track record of BVM...They have never been bought out and are in the same location and easy to contact.
How long has this kit been FLYING/CRASHING
... as for BVM, yea, their priducts are tested, but still does not prevent thinks like booms snapping on KingCats, or spars breaking on Bandits ... Yea, BVM is top of the line, but does not mean BVM products are always perfect ...
FWIW, i did buy a BobCat Composite and am very happy with it, will be flying next week ........ Also, I did opt for the BVM Rafale over the AD one, even though they are both by the same designer .. I felt in this case BVM had a more complete kit, with a lot of prefab, however compared to AD's rafale and its cost, i did not get more bang for the buck with BVM's ....
Wojtek
07-29-2005, 01:22 PM
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RE: COMPOSITE BOBCAT ALTERNATIVE
I agree that alot of people really dont see the difference between a really cheap kit and a more expensive one that has been thouroghly tested and modified to make sure that the customer has the best product they can possibly have. I used to think the same about BVM before I became educated on the market, once I saw what you get when you buy a cheaper kit and then compared that to the quality of the BVM it really makes more sense. I am not saying that the kits that are cheaper are "poor quality" I am just saying that you get what you pay for and there is obviously a market for that.
Personally I would rather pay more money for a better product, but there are many that are well aware that the cheaper product is of lessor quality and ok with that. Then there are those who buy the cheaper product and expect it to be of the same quality as the more expensive ones.
There are plenty of kits out there that have been rushed into production that have hardly been tested at all, and expect to get feedback from the customers as to how it fly's. If the customer is ok with that, then everyone is happy. Others will pay the extra money for an aircraft that has been tried and tested with superior instructions that have been written by lengthy testing and R&D.
You see, it is totally up to the consumer to buy whatever they want, I am glad that there are the two different types of kits out there because it gives everyone a choice......as long as safety has not been put aside because of the lack of testing.
Just remember that YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR and there should be no complaining of kits being too expensive, because there is an alternative. And there should be no complaining that the kit is poor quality....because there is also an alternative.
Everyone buy what you like, go fly, and have a good time...... Just make sure to do it safe!
Take care,
Dave
Personally I would rather pay more money for a better product, but there are many that are well aware that the cheaper product is of lessor quality and ok with that. Then there are those who buy the cheaper product and expect it to be of the same quality as the more expensive ones.
There are plenty of kits out there that have been rushed into production that have hardly been tested at all, and expect to get feedback from the customers as to how it fly's. If the customer is ok with that, then everyone is happy. Others will pay the extra money for an aircraft that has been tried and tested with superior instructions that have been written by lengthy testing and R&D.
You see, it is totally up to the consumer to buy whatever they want, I am glad that there are the two different types of kits out there because it gives everyone a choice......as long as safety has not been put aside because of the lack of testing.
Just remember that YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR and there should be no complaining of kits being too expensive, because there is an alternative. And there should be no complaining that the kit is poor quality....because there is also an alternative.
Everyone buy what you like, go fly, and have a good time...... Just make sure to do it safe!
Take care,
Dave
07-29-2005, 01:25 PM
#34
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RE: COMPOSITE BOBCAT ALTERNATIVE
Gentlemen
This thread was started to show the new model from AD and not as an avenue to bash BVM.
In consideration with the forgoing, I’ve removed all posts in this thread (14 total) with direct BVM reference in it.
A torrent of passionate indignation boils through my veins whenever I see or read this type of childish behavior and thanks in advance for your cooperation and understanding.
Best Regards
Ben
This thread was started to show the new model from AD and not as an avenue to bash BVM.
In consideration with the forgoing, I’ve removed all posts in this thread (14 total) with direct BVM reference in it.
A torrent of passionate indignation boils through my veins whenever I see or read this type of childish behavior and thanks in advance for your cooperation and understanding.
Best Regards
Ben
07-29-2005, 02:32 PM
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RE: COMPOSITE BOBCAT ALTERNATIVE
"At last someone has come up with a reasonably priced alternative to the Composite Bobcat" But yet the first line in the thread stays, another one for the books.... Russ
07-29-2005, 03:13 PM
#37
RE: COMPOSITE BOBCAT ALTERNATIVE
Yup go figure, my post was deleted as well, and all I made was a statement as a BVM and ADjets owner speaking well of both companies, it was positive in each respect but hey, I guess the powers that be have spoken. I give up......
07-29-2005, 05:56 PM
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RE: COMPOSITE AD PHOENIX
ghost_rider,
is it really bashing BVM if people question the bang for bucks of competing products? Thats what forums are about, different opinions, opinions from all over the globe about topics many freaks are interested in. I can not see the bashing if somebody states this product is this good for this $$$ and another one is that good for that $$$. I think to state "Booaahhh - that company makes a copy of this great product" - where the only similarity is the fact that its a twin boomer is more to be bashing than to discuss quality, ingenuity and price tags.
Just the 2ct of a european guy with maybe a somewhat different opinion.
regards
Thomas
is it really bashing BVM if people question the bang for bucks of competing products? Thats what forums are about, different opinions, opinions from all over the globe about topics many freaks are interested in. I can not see the bashing if somebody states this product is this good for this $$$ and another one is that good for that $$$. I think to state "Booaahhh - that company makes a copy of this great product" - where the only similarity is the fact that its a twin boomer is more to be bashing than to discuss quality, ingenuity and price tags.
Just the 2ct of a european guy with maybe a somewhat different opinion.
regards
Thomas
