Trying to sell something as an original is a different story...I don't see these advertised as Skymaster kits.

NAH, they all come in here and bash each other. It's kind of comical really. Now Todd, I deal with and buy stuff from all the time, he is a great guy, but when it's all said and done he is a Skymaster/Airpac Rep or distributor. Lt. Dan was or still is the Airpac webmaster, so are they really just sitting back and not worried.

Don't get me wrong, I also have dealings with Eric Wu and he goes way out for his customer. I am not trying to bash anyone with this, I own two of the Skymaster Jet models, but at certain point you have to say, man here we go again. Are we at round 4 or higher yet?

Turbulence

Wow! I did not know Lt. Dan was working with Skymaster.
I have never seen Eric Wu bash anybody, but I don't read every post here!
I guess it IS just business as usual. Nobody's horse is pure white, we all get some mud on our footies, you know?

At any rate...I'll ask again:
This same factory makes products for BVM, right?
You guys going to boycott BVM?

... and just how do you know that these are in fact fraudulently produced kits ?

Now, you never quite know where the truth lies when it comes to stuff like this, but here's the (possibly true, possibly not) story that I heard: When SM decided to start their own factory they did not pay Spark for any of the kits & components that had already been produced and were still in the Spark factory; consequently if Spark's attempts to get SM to collect and pay for that merchandise failed, then they presumably have the right to sell off all such merchandise to recover their costs.

Interesting though, to see that people are up in arms about a chinese copy of a kit, yet revel in the idea of a chinese copy of a turbine.

Gordon

Also interesting that they're offering the planes in "kit" format rather than just pre-painted ARF's. What I don't understand is the "new" F-22. If SM developed & built them in their "own" factory, presumably after the SM / Spark falling out, how did Spark get the molds? Are they simply a splash of a SM original?

A thought on the BVM jets not (apparently) being copied out there, is it possible that BVM pays a bit more to the manufacturer to ensure that the plane isn't "backdoored" by the factory?

Who else does Spark manufacture for?

Bob

Is it just me or are the Skymaster and JetLegend T-45 and F-22 totally different kits? I see the F-15 and 18 are the same but the new JetLegend kits are totally different specs than the skymaster ones? The JetLegend F-22 is bigger and the T-45 is smaller. If this is the case then we are dealing with a whole new line of kits? Which I find exciting. And the reason of getting rid of old stock of the original kits makes a lot of since.

Rule number 1 in international business is to know the "culture" that you are dealing with, as easytiger said right vs wrong has a lot to do with where you come from and are not etched in stone. A good example is the Milk industry "Got Milk" was/is a very popular phrase here in the US, but in Mexico it was literally taken as "are you lactating" and was found to be very offensive.

I sent jet legend an e-mail about the Hawk and did not get a reply. Are they for real??
V..

Exactly what does this have to do with anything? You want to know how involved I am with Skymaster? I haven't spoken to Eric in some 6-8 months. I found out about this when I came across their F-22 thread on RC Groups. The only reason I said anything is because I own a Skymaster plane and could immediately see it was a copy. I'd have posted the same for any brand of jet that I own.

[/quote]

This subject has been beat to death here long ago. I'm not a rep and I don't get a paycheck from Airpac / Skymaster.

If that is the case, then why not sell them as Skymaster/left over inventory, etc. Why create a new company and sell them as their own?

Plans/drawings can easily be scaled up or down. I'm curious though, I think JHH said someone was ripping off their Hawk design last year and I believe this Jet Legend Hawk has the same dimentions. (not sure, but thought I read that somewhere)

I did not know anything about it, I did not follow the Skymaster Wars.
I'll concede that being their webmaster does not mean much.

But the whole premise of "rotten bastiges buying cheap chinese knockoffs, you dirty rats..."
Well, I ask again:
Is this the same factory that makes the new BVM F-18?
Along with the Cermark kits?
And that the kits they are selling evidently WERE(so they say) made for Skymaster in the first place and not paid for?
Now how do you feel about them?
Maybe a little murkier?
Maybe some of the aspersions cast earlier in this thread seem a little harsh?

Here's my take on it. Would you support a company that is back dooring another company and diluting the market? How would you feel if a company like Skymaster, Yellow, or BVM had to close their doors because their cheap knockoffs were taking away their market share?

I don't know if they are "backdooring" or not, but I do know that it's pretty much SOP when you go to do business there, it's part of the price of the insanely cheap labor.

Speaking HYPOTHETICALLY only:

Now, let's assume they ARE just knocking off Skymaster kits, as you say.
Then how do you deal with a company like BVM who is using them as a supplier, in full knowledge that they are screwing some other manufacturer?
I'm ASKING you...I'm not TELLING you how to feel about this.

The Jetlegend hawk is not even close to the JHH hawk, or the knock off I have owned the JHH hawk and it doesn't look half as good as the one on the jetlegned site. The JHH was/is only 56in long with a 54in wingspan. The JHH had big goofy intakes and this one that jetlegend is showing has scale intakes and the cockpit design is totally different.

I just want to be sure here on something. If two similar ARF's are different sizes doesn't that mean that there is different tooling involved and that they are not copies of each other. Wouldn't there have to be totally seperate fiberglass molds?

However I think this argument is kind of a non issue since there is no US importer of the Jetlegend kits, even if they are a couple of hundred cheaper, the average jet modeler will choose someone that they can depend on locally, who wants to wait for the slowboat from china everytime they need a part for there jet. And for that matter who could you go to if the retailer in China decides to take your money and run.

There is no more prolific company than SM. not sure what "diluting the market means" Cut throat is the nature of business, and im not sure that most consumers of any product on any level are concerned with the politics of the companies amongst themselves. ie... most folks dont know where thier chicken comes from. or could care less as long as it appears to be acceptable quality. as far as scaling up drawings to produce your own version, if that was unethical, non of us would be flying jets, and there certainly wouldnt be micro turbines available to us. having spent time in korea, thailand, philippines, and taiwan, im speechless at how our goods are plagerized, copied and pirated. in thailand, they call it "solutions for the poor" what a crock! I think E.T. is right on the mark,this is just one of the disadvantages.

Some in this thread seem to be taking this "strangely personal"
Wouldnt it make sense to vote with your purchase, let others do the same, let the big boys fight thier own battles?

I just can't help but notice that it always seems to depend on who is copying whom.
Seems like there is all sorts of moral outrage when SOME people get copied...and then it's no big deal when others get copied.
Some real double standards here.
Nobody seems to want to answer the question about BVM. I know, it's an uncomfortable question, and it totally shoots down your argument. Sorry for that.

Me...I'm more sangine about the whole thing. I'm not shouting "plagarism" and calling people names for buying Chinese knockoffs.

I think comparing the 'outsourcing by Skymaster' is not the same as comparing BVM outsourcing to China. SM is based in that region, so wouldn't that be more like BVM outsourcing to Alaska? Not that it matters. All I know is that my F-15 is identical to the one on the side, down to every last detail, and that disturbs me. I'm supporting SM with my purchase AND my voice. I don't see anything wrong with that.

A lot of people would not see it the same way.

Uh - you mean like if someone does a splash of the Avonds F15 and sells it as their own, then that's considered ok, but if someone splashes the splash, then that's evil & sinister ?

[tongue in cheek]

P.S. We need to be really careful here - all of this idiotic internet chatter is being intensely monitored 24/7 by the WTO ... the things that are being said here could well result in the WTO being backed into a corner such that ALL imports to the USA will be banned. Then we'll be really up the creek without a paddle, and it will all be ET's fault.

[/tongue in cheek]

Heh heh heh....
SOMETHING like that!


But...in my eyes...if someone HAD splashed an Avonds F-15, but had added composite wings, revised internal structure, all these substantive changes, to me, it would be enough to call it their own.

Say...what does the Women's Tennis Organization have to do with ANYTHING?

Word is out on ET he also had something to do with Mrs O'Leary's cow, a lantern.......and the city of Chicago...........
Semper Fi

Let me say this one thing only in my defense: I was standing behind that cow to examine her for, uh, hoof and mouth disease. There was no romantic intent whatsoever. The cow just JUMPED, for no reason at all, and knocked over the lamp. I ran as fast as I could, and my zipper must have just fallen down as I was running.

If you are implying that the SM F-15 is a copy of the Avonds F-15, I can tell you that I've owned both, and there are numerious differences in the design and construction. They are different scales, flying surfaces are of different construction, I could go on and on. There are actually very little similarities between the two. This is not the case with the JL F-15, I can see from the photos that it is the same jet in every aspect.