Calling all ADjet Phoenix flyers
10-23-2005, 08:08 PM
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RE: Calling all ADjet Phoenix flyers
here is what you can do with a pot of paint a spray gun and a little time ,,, I had this one painted for a demo machine , hopefully to be flown by a famous aerobatic competitor who is a new convert to jets.... watch this space........................malcolm Kay
10-23-2005, 09:06 PM
#27
RE: Calling all ADjet Phoenix flyers
ORIGINAL: Malcolm Kay
Dave you're not dense I wrote the post too quickly the struts are a separate item for people who have retracts to put in and you could use anything the plane will take spring airs, or robarts or whatever you have that retract sideways (no bvm bobcat ) the price of $595 for the eurokit set includes three retracts three struts with trailing link suspension air tank, wheels tires and brakes inserts for the tires if you want to use them (I do) a proportional brake valve servo operated, and retract air valve and a one way fill valve complete set of 3mm tubing and festo connections for the brakes and 4mm tubing with festo fittings foe the retracts all of which goes together with a snap and works perfectly without any air leaks the first time you use it , ......they even give you the right screws to mount the retracts in the airframe ! hope that clears matters up sorry for the confusion. Malcolm
Dave you're not dense I wrote the post too quickly the struts are a separate item for people who have retracts to put in and you could use anything the plane will take spring airs, or robarts or whatever you have that retract sideways (no bvm bobcat ) the price of $595 for the eurokit set includes three retracts three struts with trailing link suspension air tank, wheels tires and brakes inserts for the tires if you want to use them (I do) a proportional brake valve servo operated, and retract air valve and a one way fill valve complete set of 3mm tubing and festo connections for the brakes and 4mm tubing with festo fittings foe the retracts all of which goes together with a snap and works perfectly without any air leaks the first time you use it , ......they even give you the right screws to mount the retracts in the airframe ! hope that clears matters up sorry for the confusion. Malcolm
Thanks for the speedy reply! So the total would be $2110 plus shipping?
Dave
10-24-2005, 04:15 AM
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RE: Calling all ADjet Phoenix flyers
Malcolm
I am hoping mine will be here this week. Can you confirm that the full flap / elevator mix is 15% UP ELEVATOR? All my previous twin boomers have required a DOWN elevator mix with full flap.
John
I am hoping mine will be here this week. Can you confirm that the full flap / elevator mix is 15% UP ELEVATOR? All my previous twin boomers have required a DOWN elevator mix with full flap.
John
10-24-2005, 01:06 PM
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RE: Calling all ADjet Phoenix flyers
Kincat needs slight up trim with flaps, I think that the Phoenix would be very similar.
I'm interested in hearing more about this plane.
Seems that the price is right, and it definitely has a good look to it!!
Dan
I'm interested in hearing more about this plane.
Seems that the price is right, and it definitely has a good look to it!!
Dan
10-25-2005, 06:42 AM
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RE: Calling all ADjet Phoenix flyers
Guys
The Phoenix landed this morning. No messing about, straight into the build!
First impressions.
I would rate the quality about the same as a Composite ARF Kangaroo, some of the paint is not too good, i.e. missing from the top of one boom. Luckily I have a can of French Blue which is a perfect match. I will also rub down the seams on top of the booms before painting.
Otherwise it seems fine with the formers well glued in with hysol or equal.
My main complaint is the aileron / flap servo cut outs / mounts. These have been sized for mini servos. The instructions say use mini servos of 3 / 4kg torque on ailerons /flaps, the instructions also say this model can do 250mph. Sorry, I am not about to use 3/4 kg mini servos on such a model. I have opened out the wing cut outs and have ordered the larger servo mounts which are used on the elevator. This means the servo mount will project by its thickness (2mm) below the wing surface which I will live with. There is sufficient ply reinforcement beyond the outline of the servo cut out to give secure fixing for the screws. I will use 8kg standard size digitals on aileron / flap/ elevator.
I think the designer should rethink this aspect of the model.
Next onto the landing gear cut outs. I am not using the reccomended gear, I have some 702 springairs with wire legs and Intairco wheels / brakes which will do the job. The instructions say make the rear of your gear cut out 75mm in front of the centre line of the wing tube.
I found that 70mm worked better for this as the centreline ot the gear mount is 90mm in front of the wingtube centreline. If you are using straight legs either wire or struts watch your wheel size or the front of the wheel will foul the back former at the front edge of the wheel cutout.I am using 66mm main wheels.
There will be no problem with the reccomended gear with the trailing link legs.. I have also decide to add a piece of 9mm ply on top of the gear mounting rails as they are buried about 25mm deep in the wing. The nose gear cut out is straightforward, just make it to suit your noseleg.
I will use a 50oz Dubro main tank which fits easily and a 6oz hopper this will give 6/7 minutes on the Wren Supersport.
BTW the model size is 71" wingspan and 80" length despite what the website says. It is a very clean ,nice looking model when assembled.
I will cut the slots in the control surfaces and glue in the horns with epoxy next and then it is just gear installation. The model should be ready for test flights by Saturday.
John
The Phoenix landed this morning. No messing about, straight into the build!
First impressions.
I would rate the quality about the same as a Composite ARF Kangaroo, some of the paint is not too good, i.e. missing from the top of one boom. Luckily I have a can of French Blue which is a perfect match. I will also rub down the seams on top of the booms before painting.
Otherwise it seems fine with the formers well glued in with hysol or equal.
My main complaint is the aileron / flap servo cut outs / mounts. These have been sized for mini servos. The instructions say use mini servos of 3 / 4kg torque on ailerons /flaps, the instructions also say this model can do 250mph. Sorry, I am not about to use 3/4 kg mini servos on such a model. I have opened out the wing cut outs and have ordered the larger servo mounts which are used on the elevator. This means the servo mount will project by its thickness (2mm) below the wing surface which I will live with. There is sufficient ply reinforcement beyond the outline of the servo cut out to give secure fixing for the screws. I will use 8kg standard size digitals on aileron / flap/ elevator.
I think the designer should rethink this aspect of the model.
Next onto the landing gear cut outs. I am not using the reccomended gear, I have some 702 springairs with wire legs and Intairco wheels / brakes which will do the job. The instructions say make the rear of your gear cut out 75mm in front of the centre line of the wing tube.
I found that 70mm worked better for this as the centreline ot the gear mount is 90mm in front of the wingtube centreline. If you are using straight legs either wire or struts watch your wheel size or the front of the wheel will foul the back former at the front edge of the wheel cutout.I am using 66mm main wheels.
There will be no problem with the reccomended gear with the trailing link legs.. I have also decide to add a piece of 9mm ply on top of the gear mounting rails as they are buried about 25mm deep in the wing. The nose gear cut out is straightforward, just make it to suit your noseleg.
I will use a 50oz Dubro main tank which fits easily and a 6oz hopper this will give 6/7 minutes on the Wren Supersport.
BTW the model size is 71" wingspan and 80" length despite what the website says. It is a very clean ,nice looking model when assembled.
I will cut the slots in the control surfaces and glue in the horns with epoxy next and then it is just gear installation. The model should be ready for test flights by Saturday.
John
10-25-2005, 09:06 AM
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RE: Calling all ADjet Phoenix flyers
John, I was planning on 'standard' size servos so this is a blow! What dimension servos is it designed to take and are they mounted on their side or lugs in plane with the wing skin?
Roger (plane in transit)
Roger (plane in transit)
10-25-2005, 11:02 AM
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RE: Calling all ADjet Phoenix flyers
Roger
The plastic servo mounts supplied with the kit fit Hitec 225 mini servos, they may fit other servos I don't know. The servo is screwed into the mount which is then screwed in to the recess in the wing. I will be using that setup on the rudders. The elevator has a standard size servo mount.
More progress this afternoon, retract / brake servos installed along with rx and switch, hopper tank and steering servo, triangular balsa stock glued to bottom of fuz with ply hooks for rubber bands to hold Dubro 50oz tank in place.
Main gear mounting blocks installed with Hysol to suit my gear. Will screw retracts in tomorrow and run airlines etc. Cannot progress wing servos until new mounting plates arrive. Hatch will require stiffening former at rear as it is quite flexible in this area.
John
The plastic servo mounts supplied with the kit fit Hitec 225 mini servos, they may fit other servos I don't know. The servo is screwed into the mount which is then screwed in to the recess in the wing. I will be using that setup on the rudders. The elevator has a standard size servo mount.
More progress this afternoon, retract / brake servos installed along with rx and switch, hopper tank and steering servo, triangular balsa stock glued to bottom of fuz with ply hooks for rubber bands to hold Dubro 50oz tank in place.
Main gear mounting blocks installed with Hysol to suit my gear. Will screw retracts in tomorrow and run airlines etc. Cannot progress wing servos until new mounting plates arrive. Hatch will require stiffening former at rear as it is quite flexible in this area.
John
10-26-2005, 11:26 AM
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RE: Calling all ADjet Phoenix flyers
Guys
A long day on the Phoenix today. Retracts fitted and tested, ditto brakes and steering cables, servo boxes for rudders fitted in booms and sero leads run in booms for elevator and rudders.
Thr Hitec HS 225 MG is slightly too big for the supplied servo mounts so some trimming was required for a neat fit.
No mention is made in the instructions of the anti rotation pins. The pins (5mm wire) were a very tight fit in the fuselare / booms / wing, in fact it was impossible to fit the booms and outer wing panels due to slight misalignment of the holes. This required the drilling / filing of all holes until a sliding fit was obtained. At this point the pins were epoxied into the fuselage with 12mm remaining outside the boom to engage in the wing root. The tubes in the outer wing panels were also eased slightly at the root to make the job of wing removal easier.
Tomorrow the wing servos and elevatorwill be fitted and control horns glued in. At the moment the model seems to be quite tail heavy without the turbine fitted so I am a little concerned that some nose weight may be needed.
John
A long day on the Phoenix today. Retracts fitted and tested, ditto brakes and steering cables, servo boxes for rudders fitted in booms and sero leads run in booms for elevator and rudders.
Thr Hitec HS 225 MG is slightly too big for the supplied servo mounts so some trimming was required for a neat fit.
No mention is made in the instructions of the anti rotation pins. The pins (5mm wire) were a very tight fit in the fuselare / booms / wing, in fact it was impossible to fit the booms and outer wing panels due to slight misalignment of the holes. This required the drilling / filing of all holes until a sliding fit was obtained. At this point the pins were epoxied into the fuselage with 12mm remaining outside the boom to engage in the wing root. The tubes in the outer wing panels were also eased slightly at the root to make the job of wing removal easier.
Tomorrow the wing servos and elevatorwill be fitted and control horns glued in. At the moment the model seems to be quite tail heavy without the turbine fitted so I am a little concerned that some nose weight may be needed.
John
10-27-2005, 12:18 PM
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RE: Calling all ADjet Phoenix flyers
All servo / leads installed all control surfaces linked and preliminary radio set up commenced. Booms / horizontal stab installed, everything fits perfectly after adjustments to anti rotation pins.
Boom / wing / fuselage joints very neat and tight. Only gripe is method of outer wing retention, instructions say use a 3mm screw tapped through the wing underside into the alloy wing tube. The manufacturer has not installed any packing between the composite wing skin and the wing tube and I am not happy with the 3mm screw. I have replaced this with a 5mm nylon screw and a large washer which will help spread the load on the wing skin and the nylon screw will be less likely to rotate.
20 hours on the build so far and just turbine / main tank / batteries to install, estimate another 8 hours or so to complete
John
10-27-2005, 05:22 PM
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RE: Calling all ADjet Phoenix flyers
We again had a lil crash, when the engine flamed out and we had no choice but to put it down while it was doing a low level inverted pass...... ouch !! Yeah but its fixed and repainted again and we would be flying it tommorrow. Pictures and vidz to be posted soon......
Great flyer.......you loose track of time when u fly this thing ! hehehe... My excuse for the flame out and not switching on the timer !! lol
Great flyer.......you loose track of time when u fly this thing ! hehehe... My excuse for the flame out and not switching on the timer !! lol
10-29-2005, 10:35 AM
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RE: Calling all ADjet Phoenix flyers
jOHN , YOU MUST HAVE AN EARLY KIT, BECAUSE NONE OF MINE HERE IN THE STATES HAS HAD AN ALLIGNMENT PROBLEM WITH THE PINS, YOU JUST HAVE TO CLEAN THEM UP WITH MEDIUM PAPER BEFORE EPOXYING THE PINS IN THE HOLES ,, REMEMBERING TO ASSEMBLE THE BOOMS AND THE WINGS AND THEN LEAVE THE EPOXY ALONE TO DRY.... AND THE PLANE WAS DESIGNED TO FLY WITH THE SMALL JR METAL GEAR 3421 'SOR 3421 SA'S 50 OZ SERVOS AND A 12LB TO 18LB TURBINE AND IT WON'T DO 250 MILES AN HOUR MORE LIKE 250 KILOMETRES PER HOUR OR ABOUT A 160 MPH, PERHAPS SOMETHING WAS LOST IN THE TRANSLATION JUST A QUICK NOTE ON THE PHOENIX SERVO SITUATION i USE THE hITECH METAL GEAR MINIS i HAVE HAD TWENTY FOUR FLIGHTS ON MY PHOENIX WITH NO PROBLEMS AT ALL, THE THING FLYS AND FLYS AND FLYS .........EVERY BODY IN MY LOCAL AREA WHO HAS SEEN IT COMMENTS ON HOW WELL IT FLYS AEROBATICS AND TO PROVE A POINT A VERY FAMOUS AEROBATIC COMPETITOR IS ABOUT TO GET HIS HANDS ON ONE TO WRING IT OUT ......SHOULD BE GOOD..........WATCH THIS THREAD
10-29-2005, 02:58 PM
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RE: Calling all ADjet Phoenix flyers
hi EDGAR, , YESSIR I'LL BE AT LAKE WALES WITH THE PHOENIX IT'S A YELLOW WHITE AND BLUE VERSION, WITH A PST 600 R MOUNTED ON THE PLANE i PUT ANOTHER FIVE FLIGHTS ON RECENTLY AND THE LITTLE MOTOR IS MORE THAN ADEQUATE AND VERY RELIABLE, STARTS FIRST POP EVERY TIME...PUSHES THE BIRD VERTICAL FROM TAKE OFF........MALCOLM
10-30-2005, 10:11 AM
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RE: Calling all ADjet Phoenix flyers
The Navy Chase Scheme plane that was painted for Malcolm required several pots of paint and was painted by expert builder and painter Mike Hapsas from Hollywood Florida. Another great job Mike. Keep up the awesome work.
10-31-2005, 09:08 AM
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RE: Calling all ADjet Phoenix flyers
Malcolm
I note your comments regarding the anti rotation pins and your suggestion that I might have an early kit. If that is the case I did not pay an "early kit" price for it! I also feel that the glass layup for the fuselage is very light and In my opinion on the flimsy side.
Your comments regarding the servo installation are, of course, quite valid. It was my decision not to go with mini servos on the wing control surfaces.
John
I note your comments regarding the anti rotation pins and your suggestion that I might have an early kit. If that is the case I did not pay an "early kit" price for it! I also feel that the glass layup for the fuselage is very light and In my opinion on the flimsy side.
Your comments regarding the servo installation are, of course, quite valid. It was my decision not to go with mini servos on the wing control surfaces.
John
10-31-2005, 05:10 PM
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RE: Calling all ADjet Phoenix flyers
JOHN........POINT TAKEN........SPOKEN LIKE A TRUE SCOTSMAN.......A FEW STRIPS OF CARBON FIBRE CLOTH AROUND THE FRONT SECTION, WOULD'NT GO AMISS........I AGREE......BUT WHEN YOU GET IT IN THE AIR YOU'L LOVE THE WAY IT FLYS AND I'M GUESSING THAT IT IS ALL DOWN TO THE LOW AUW.. I WILL ASK FOR A STRENGTHENING LAYER OF CLOTH.... TO CHANGE ANYTHING....TAKES TIME.................BEEN NAGGING FOR AN ARF FOR TWO YEARS...................NOW WE GOT ONE THAT WORKS ...HOPE EVERYBODY ENJOYS IT, NO MATTER HOW THEY FIT THEIR SERVOS OR HOW STRONG THEY WANT IT TO BE........BE SAFE , AND ENJOY...................FLY.....................MA LCOLM
11-01-2005, 01:36 PM
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RE: Calling all ADjet Phoenix flyers
John, just about to start my build, just wondered if you had completed and if so how did the balance point work out?
Regards
Roger
Regards
Roger
11-01-2005, 06:00 PM
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RE: Calling all ADjet Phoenix flyers
Roger
Been held up with having to earn a living for the last few days! Will try to complete this week and advise on balance situation.
John
Been held up with having to earn a living for the last few days! Will try to complete this week and advise on balance situation.
John
