ifly-RCU

right now the plans i have for it were sized down to half (was for another project)

so i need to scale it up to the accual plan size 91inch long and 60 in wing span

well i enjoy building and building a fiberglass kit is the "easy way out"
i really want to build a "c" version but using the plans ill have to build the "a" version there are a few differences between the like size of the horizonal tail planes

any one have any idea where i can find retracts for this beast?
i need 2 90deg retract rotate mains and 1 110deg retract and rotate nose gear
that can hold up to an 18lbs plane

Bobman

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QUOTE:
<well i enjoy building and building a fiberglass kit is the "easy way out" >

No, just a different way of building!

I built a Ziroli Panther off plans... took a couple of trees worth of wood and a month of Sunday's to get the curves "just right". In the long run I should've bought a glass fuse as I think the weight would've been close and the time would've been MUCH less!
The curves on a 16 are going to be tough, but do-able!

Josh will most likely be able to sell you a full size set of plans for a fair price. I bought a set of his HUGE A-10 plans a while back and have his address around here somewhere. I'll look for it and send it to you, or Dean(A10Flyr) might be able to help quicker... that's who I got it from!

Not sure about the main gear retracts, but if you're not concerned about "real scale" why do they need to rotate? Do the mains like the Byron, mounted so they retract forward with a bent gear. The wheels may protrude slightly from the fuse, but you could probably move the main gear up a bit higher to solve this. Nose gear is a different beast, but depending on what you're doing for a fan you could just retract the gear straight back and make allowances in your inlet duct for the wheel. This being said, I haven't seen the plans for it so I may be all wet here.

Good luck!

Bob

A10FLYR

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I don't have any plans for the F-16 here and I haven't been able to get a hold of Josh lately. I use AirMagic for the mains and RomAir for the nose, exactly what you need. Robart will do the struts for you with the correct 60°'s. Glennis does a very nice set of wheels for it, look at his website.

Tough but doable? Yup, it has been done by a fella who lives not to far away but I haven't seen it, don't care to....to see the amount of work in it would scare the h**l out of me!!

ifly-RCU

i cant find any web pages for r(h)om air or airmagic whats there address?
whats the cost for these retracts?
ill probly just use rubber wheels for a while...scale wheels and brakes are like $400+

how would i do the ducting for this? have the retracts pook though ?
i was thinking to use gear doors too

whats the difference if i used just 90 deg retracts? is the rotation to keep the wheels out of the airflow?
would it work with out the rotation? on the plans it seems show the wheels still in the airflow

i have seen a guys mig that was built form wood
he had the sheeting on in a few day with all the curves even though it was about half the f-16 size it still would have been hard
i think strip planking is the way to go

is that your a 10?

A10FLYR

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Air Magic has a website but I haven't been there in a while. Somebody able to help him out here? Rom's phone number is 305-232-6615. I think Frank Tiano was going to stock the jet gear nose retract.

If you are going to use the prop-fan the gear will be in the airstream. If you use the Dynamax it won't. Then you will have a more efficient installation and you will be able to have gear doors as well. The rotation is scale, not just to keep the wheels out of the airflow.

I admire someone who can still sheet a fuse well. I just don't have the patience anymore, used to tho.

Yup, that's my "Hog".

ifly-RCU

i will be able to make inlet ducting and have it look scale!!
well in that case ill go with the dynamax then

is that a tractor fan? i was thinking the huricane fan but the price is a bit steep 250 just for the fan!
with a pusher fan i could have the entire fan inclosed into the ducting and use a long starter wand hooked to my starter

i guess my main idea is to make it as scale as i can with out taking out a loan(if i could....)

well im glad some one knows about this plane all the people on rco have all but diappeared and buy only kits!

well wish me luck if i start this project!

A10FLYR

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OS .91 and Dynamax will be a good choice. The performance is far better for that application. The propfan is OK in unducted situations. If you need fiberglass parts, nose cone, tailcone, inlet, let me know. I've got the molds.

ifly-RCU

im guessing you build this too? made your own molds?
it may be awhile before i need them but just hold on to them

im not sure what to do for my next project...either this or a home built turbine... both will cost a bunch

will this plane fly on only a 12 lbs turbine? wont need a speed limiter

A10FLYR

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Made my own but I do have Josh's original molds as well.

Yup it will fly on a twelve pound turbine but a 23 pounder is much more exciting!!! And still won't need a speed limiter.

ifly-RCU

more power more better

are you and josh good friends? what other planes did he design?

ifly-RCU

i was looking at the huricane set up which is a 6 inch fan but its way costly 250

i have heard that a tractor set up is more effecient then a pusher fan

since this plane is bigger then the byron f-16 and the byron used a 6 inch fan which put out a good 13 lbs of thrust what would be the better fan for this use?

should there be a hinge in the ducting so that i can start it or not have any ducting where it meets the fan?

i did find airmagic the retracts for the mains are 345

any one have an idea on how much the nose will be?

whats the run way space needed for a 5 inch fan? can it be flown off grass?

Bobman

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Take this only as advice and NOT fact's as this is based on my experiences over the last 25 years or so, last 4 with D/F. There are guys here WAY more qualified than me. That being said....

Pusher vs. Tractor - Tractor is generally more effecient because of the lack of "junk" hanging out in the inlet duct and the general streamlining of the engine, pipe,& fairings. Tractor's are also designed to give a higher top speed at the expense of a lower static thrust. Kinda like a car pulling away in 3rd gear.... it's going to be slow of the line but have a higher top speed.

Now, to mix things up, tractor fans are MUCH more sensitive to inlet & exhaust duct areas, shapes, smoothness, etc. Take a Byron fan and give it an ample air supply & it will more than likely perform OK. Leave the intake ducts off a Dynamax or starve it for air and you probably won't break ground.

IMHO, Byron fans perform better off of a grass runway. I've done Byron, Dynamax, BVM, and Ramtec and have had the most success FROM GRASS with the Byron, but you give up top speed.

Whew, that was a lot! There are a few good books out there on the theories of D/F units that can explain this stuff much better than I could ever hope to understand.

You start a tractor fan thru the intake with a wand, or optionally thru a spring loaded door on the side of the fuse. Byron's start from the tailpipe with a wand.

I wouldn't want to guess on runway space needed, but I will tell you a Ziroli Panther will break ground in about 300' on short grass w/ an OS.91 / Dynamax setup and 1/3 flaps. Plane weighs in at 17lbs and flys well, but would do better w/ a turbine!

Hope this all helps a little.
Bob

A10FLYR

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True post Mr. Bobman,

With the fiberglass Falcon the 7¼" propfan was the quickest accerater but slowest on the top end. The Falcon would fly with the nose up at about 5° to 10° at max airspeed. I didn't try the Byrofan so no comment there. It might be the best for grass as there is lots of room in the fuse for the extra stuff without a lot of interference. But...with the Dynamax fan the flight charicteristics were the best once you got it up "on the step". After takeoff and turnout drop the nose a little to pick up speed. The glass Falcon weighed about 23# wet and used at least 300 feet of paved runway BUT...that was at 7000 amsl! Down at sea level I would think it would be much better.

Also, if you are not that concerned with "stuff" in the inlet side, (Byron wasn't!) you could use Robart #145 main gear from a Corsair. I used that gear on one of the prototypes. A bit bulky but worked. Use the BuBro light weight wheels. It seems to me that Trimair makes a rotating nose gear for their F-86.

Josh and I are good friends. I did the molds for the A-10 as well. I haven't been able to raise him on email lately. I guess I'll have to give him a call.

A10FLYR

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The "B" model....Hey Nico, you can do the same thing with yours. One long hatch with two different, two piece canopies, "A" and "B".

A10FLYR

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And the tailcone for Dynamax/Turbine.

A10FLYR

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The two piece hatch.....

Bobman

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Geezzz... gotta show the picture of YOUR aircraft collection to my wife. Maybe it'll get me out of the doghouse!

Nice F-16 fuse Dean. You selling parts? Might be interested in doing a turbine one next winter.

Bob

A10FLYR

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And the "gaping hole"....

A10FLYR

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Hey Bob,

You don't want to know how many airplanes I have, built or in kit form...I don't want my wife to know either!!!

Once I get the Falcon done I will consider selling parts. Right now I want to get the hatches molded in the fuse. If I should sell parts DCU will be doing the glasswork for it as well as he is doing the "Hog" stuff for me. Late I'll have a picture of my Falcon with a Byron for comparison.

Bobman

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Yeah, I know the feeling. Fortunately (?) my wife flys too so I usually don't get too much grief about what I buy. She doesn't enjoy building though, so she just doesn't "get" the thrill of making it work, or understand just WHY we need 5 or 6 planes in various stages of construction! Of course it starts a whole NEW arguments... now she just steals my stuff for her planes!

I'm curious about the comparison to the Byron 16, as I'm just now finishing up a Byron one for "fun" flying. (honest, still got wet overspray on my fingers!) It was a "cheapie" project, started w/ a fuse bought online and made everything else, sans canopy of course. Pictures to be posted next week sometime.

Bob

ifly-RCU

ahhh i remember you,
we discussed hatch making awhile back

i guess i would rather have a scale inlet and out line with gear doors and desent proformance what will give me that?

as you said it i want to have gear doors you need to have a lot of space inside so i would need a 5 inch fan

to have what i stated i understand i need:
90 deg retract rotate mains 110 retract rotate nose gear(need to find that yet) dynamax fan and flow through ducting( this would need to be snaked over the l/g right?)

i guess i would have top fly at the airport(was going to any way)

any ideas on how to make a canope and cockpit? im guessing you just paint the fiberglass canope? whos nico?

did you ever use the dave platt 110 deg compitition retract? i emailed him and he say that the rotation was a aftermartket mod by robinaire