I know it may sound as a crazy idea, but I would like to know if it has any acceptance, so please give your thoughts.

I have a few ideas about it, we could adapt some IMAC routine I guess, but before going any further: do you guys like it ???

Jack

PS: we won`t allow the Shulmans to participate

Jack, In our next event in november in Curitiba , there will be a scale and a jet aerobatic free style competition , as an a alternative who didn´t have a specialized jet to compete in on our jet speed event... You are welcome to participate as well as anybody here in this forum, including the Shulmans .

Enrique

Not crazy at all. I remember when one of the best pattern fliers in my old club was given a shot at flying a (sport) jet for the first time ... he flew each of the pattern sequences in turn, and commented afterwards that with the exception of maneuvers like the stall turn, the jet seemed very well suited to the sequences.

should have lent him a boomer xl that does a very respectable stall turn

m

Pattern is the most boring thing in the world to watch........maybe being powered by turbines will make it more exiciting.....but I doubt it.

DAVE.........HARDLY BORING..............GET A LIGHTNING.......YOU'LL NEVER BE BORED AGAIN, MISSED YOUR'E INPUT AT FJ THIS YEAR, THOSE LITTLE WAITRESSES AT THE OUTBACK ....DID TOO!!! .............MALCOLM

JACK..........GREAT IDEA...I'M ALL FOR IT !...........PS , HOW DO YOU DO AEROBATICS ? MK

the old tangerines event died in the early 1990"S and was being won and flown by bv and t nitsch w/vipers but not enough turnout then

[:-]

C'mon now! Turbine pattern will be much different, and we're all for it! A 3 or 4-minute freestyle with music would be pretty darn interesting as well.

At least I am, think my brother is a bit occupied with regular pattern flying at the moment.

I'm into it! I think that would be great. I miss flying pattern but lost some interest in it when they went to the new widebody planes. I've thought many times about flying the pattern in a contest with a jet but the box size might make it a little difficult with the faster planes.

As opposed to high speed low pass after pass after pass at a jet event
As for pattern being boring, sounds like the words of somebody who's never really gotten into it. It's no more boring to watch than anything else, same thing being done over and over, but if you're into it, you sit back and critique, judge and learn from ALL the pilots. I learned more flying pattern than any other discipline I've been involved in, I'd be all over a jet pattern event!

I think it would be great as well. You can't really say that the current jet rally venue of the race track pattern with a few low passes and the occasional vertical roll is all that spell-binding.

I think we should have two classes: one Aresti / IMAC style "in the box" routine and another "one manuever per pass" pattern just like the good old days. This would appeal to the slower as well ballistic types.

I've got about a 85% success rate at stall turns with the Reaper. Maybe we should exclude the stall turn..................

John

NATS 1988 Tri-City's Washington

I have seen David doing some gorgeous IMAC routines with the King Cat... inside the box !!!!
His stall turns were no different that those of a pattern plane.
So, it can be done ... and in expert hands, done great !!

OK David..... you are in !!!

Jack

Doesn't need to be IMAC nor F3A type. Just call it precision flying. Everybody judged by the same scale.

8 point rolls on the deck, slow-flight, slow roll, slow knife-edge, negative loops from the top, 360 degeree tight turn, straight inverted flight, and why not 2.5+ spins. They are all quite possible, yet balls to the wall.

Sure......easy to knife edge and slow roll at 140 mph.............try it at 60 mph. Guys, there is a market for this and the maneouvers are not as easy as they sound.

Had I a turbine jet right now, I'd be practicing sequence as we speak.

Good luck. Hope you guys make it a reality, and hope you guys can take the heat and the cold of precision flying. It's a blast.

David

Well........don't mean to be rude, but jet rallies with nothing but low passes, one or two rolls at 200 ft, a couple of 180 mph low passes aint that great either.

Spice it up.

Didn't mean it as an insult, meant it more as in the intricacies involved and judging every part of it for the hope of self improvement. I flew pattern from 1994 until 1999, always enjoyed watching it more than than a scale event with 10 J3 cubs, 6 warbirds, and 5 other planes who's schedule consisted of the same stuff, and enjoy watching it more than pylon racing (with the exception of the carnage found at most races hehehe)

Great idea Jack. I think a freestyle format of precision aerobatics (maybe to music) would be far more enjoyable to watch than an all out f-3A Event.

Dave--You can't compete!!!---At least not being able to use both hands....For you the rules shall be that you have to fly with one hand and the other behind your back...That's just to make it somewhat fair...You have to use one hand, no tray and no neckstrap---Now THAT'S fair!!!---And you would probably still beat all of us...[&:]

Kevin

Sounds liek a great idea. We did this back in the 80's and early 90's and it got lost in the shuffle. I am game to try it again.

I would have to agree on the music idea.

I'm in, where do I need to be to loose? I'm only going to make you guys look good.

thats typical, devalue the event by excluding the best! you should aspire to beat them not handicap them where's your competition spirit??

m

I am in.. You all are going to be reall upset when I win with a 6 year old POS airplane...

David may have car trouble getting there.. hahaha

Eddie Weeks

I agree with most of what has been said here with the exception of flying to music. 100% against. What are we anyway?, ice skaters or some sort of ballroom dancers!!. There are so many aerobatic events ruined already by music imho. Think of rolling circle variations, one roll circle, 4 point roll circle, reverse rolling circle, 8 point rolling circle, rolling loops and eights, slooooooow roll in a straight line, the list could go on forever. Oh, and not to make the dreadful mistake pattern made in 1984 when turnaround was adopted, on the pretext of slowing down the models and"reducing the noise footprint". Imho true pattern died that year r.i.p.. Also why ban the Shulmans and their like? Contestants need something to aim for and think of the fun when they are beaten !!. Turbine flying has been completely taken over by SCALE models to the detriment of free design. I class myself as an Aeromodeller, and I love all kinds of model aircraft activity, and have competed in Free Flight, Control Line, (U control),and lots of R/C events including Helis. Just one more thing. Please please dont slow the models down. Paul.

Paul---What I said about the Shulmans (Dave in particular) was very tongue in cheek---A joke!! [8D]

Kevin

My how quickly you guys forget,

Don't any of you remember watching Tony F fly the full pattern with his Bobcat and Mig!!! I sure do and TRUST ME, it is ANYTHING BUT BORING!! He is the best their is at it, and to me, it's simply awe inspiring to watch him fly like that!! His routine was/is more of a mixture of old school AMA style pattern and new school style, and THATS the format we should adopt. Remember the old school style with the high speed pattern ships??, Tippos, curaries, atlantas, ufos, etc., the sport jets seem like a perfect segue into that style of flight. If something like that were to evolve, i'd be ALL IN I'd get a Bobcat, pay Tony F a zillion bucks to teach me to fly like he does and have at it

Very cool attitude John! I am just getting started with jets but I love flying imac aresti and 3D. I would like to have goals with my jet flying much more than how much money I can sink into it, or who won what and with whom where. IMO flying is the only way to separate the men from the boys, not who you know, ink or $$$. It sounds very fun to me and perfect challenge for the gross over spenders and under flyers. Could be a ton of fun. Bring it!

Joe