Wasp update
04-18-2006 | 07:44 AM
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From: Redditch, , UNITED KINGDOM
Wasp update
Hi all,
As some know the wasp 20 was being tested in the next RCJI (built in the last).
Well I've just heard it didn't go very well as they struggled to get it running then it blew up in an airframe after 4 mins flying (either the wheel went or the rear bearing??) Not sure how many other engines being reviewed by RCJI have blown up during testing??
Maybe Heatseeker hill can comment as he seems to have his ear to the ground regarding this engine?? and confirm what happened I'm sure people will be interested to know!!.
Ant
As some know the wasp 20 was being tested in the next RCJI (built in the last).
Well I've just heard it didn't go very well as they struggled to get it running then it blew up in an airframe after 4 mins flying (either the wheel went or the rear bearing??) Not sure how many other engines being reviewed by RCJI have blown up during testing??
Maybe Heatseeker hill can comment as he seems to have his ear to the ground regarding this engine?? and confirm what happened I'm sure people will be interested to know!!.
Ant
04-18-2006 | 07:57 AM
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RE: Wasp update
ORIGINAL: Rutter The Nutter
...Well I've just heard it didn't go very well as they struggled to get it running then it blew up in an airframe after 4 mins flying (either the wheel went or the rear bearing??) Not sure how many other engines being reviewed by RCJI have blown up during testing??
...Well I've just heard it didn't go very well as they struggled to get it running then it blew up in an airframe after 4 mins flying (either the wheel went or the rear bearing??) Not sure how many other engines being reviewed by RCJI have blown up during testing??
Keep us all posted... any photos ?... dont suppose so.. lets see what the Official er...Spin on this is.
04-18-2006 | 08:18 AM
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From: Redditch, , UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Wasp update
[/quote]
These things can happen..[:@]...
Keep us all posted... any photos ?... dont suppose so.. lets see what the Official er...Spin on this is.
[/quote]
mmm cynasism I like it.
?? The FACTS not 'spin' are that they could not get the engine to run on a test bench so phil was called to come and sort this out of the box kit which he did by changing the combustion chamber then as said it blew up.
I would agree wheels can go BUT that wasn't the only fault WAS IT the combustion chamber didn't work. No I wasn't there but this information is straight from someone who was there AND is a very experienced jetter.
People should know that there is an engine on the market which facts point to the fact it isn't quite ready yet but I DO think it has potential. Being informed about something before paying money for it I think is very important
Ant
04-18-2006 | 08:27 AM
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RE: Wasp update
I definitely disagree with any implication that RCJI is going to polish up a turd and present it as a gold nugget.
They shoot straight, PERIOD.
The only thing they may do is decide not to publish it at all.
But they are CERTAINLY NOT going to cover up an incident like this, they are NOT Model Airplane NEws or Fly(Buy)RC, where everything flies right off the bench with one click of aileron trim and starts on the first flip.
That ain't RCJI. Don't slag off on their integrity, they are an island of honesty in an industry of shilling.
Can't wait to read the report. Would not be surprised if it was not delayed until the engine could be rebuilt and flown successfully. But you can bet they won't "hide" this incident.
They shoot straight, PERIOD.
The only thing they may do is decide not to publish it at all.
But they are CERTAINLY NOT going to cover up an incident like this, they are NOT Model Airplane NEws or Fly(Buy)RC, where everything flies right off the bench with one click of aileron trim and starts on the first flip.
That ain't RCJI. Don't slag off on their integrity, they are an island of honesty in an industry of shilling.
Can't wait to read the report. Would not be surprised if it was not delayed until the engine could be rebuilt and flown successfully. But you can bet they won't "hide" this incident.
04-18-2006 | 08:37 AM
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From: , UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Wasp update
Right I Never said That RJCI was going to "Polish" anything..
Are the next two sentences anywhere close to... contradictory
Are the next two sentences anywhere close to... contradictory
ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER
...The only thing they may do is decide not to publish it at all.
But they are CERTAINLY NOT going to cover up an incident like this..
...The only thing they may do is decide not to publish it at all.
But they are CERTAINLY NOT going to cover up an incident like this..
04-18-2006 | 09:11 AM
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From: Coventry, UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Wasp update
Rutter, you spoilt the fun !
That's like telling everyone the ending to a book or film.
I read the article on the Wasp and was looking forward to the test run write up.
I have found RCJI to show warts and all, to such an extent that even their authors/contributors have had their *****es mauled in here for daring to suggest improvements.
That's like telling everyone the ending to a book or film.
I read the article on the Wasp and was looking forward to the test run write up.
I have found RCJI to show warts and all, to such an extent that even their authors/contributors have had their *****es mauled in here for daring to suggest improvements.
04-18-2006 | 09:43 AM
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From: , UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Wasp update
I take it no one was injured..?
If, as it seems, there has been a "Critical part" failure then we should all be made aware PDQ...for obvious safty reasons.
If, as it seems, there has been a "Critical part" failure then we should all be made aware PDQ...for obvious safty reasons.
04-18-2006 | 09:44 AM
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From: Coventry, UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Wasp update
ORIGINAL: Rutter The Nutter
The next issue is a fair few weeks away its important people know asap to avoid losing money .
The next issue is a fair few weeks away its important people know asap to avoid losing money .
Hopefully there is time for Mr. "Wasp" to iron out the problems before the editorial deadline for the next RCJI.
04-18-2006 | 10:02 AM
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From: kenilworth , UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Wasp update
Rutter, you really are a lad... I bet you find the review will be based on test bench findings before it was screwed in the model...
take it easy
Jason
take it easy
Jason
04-18-2006 | 10:08 AM
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From: Redditch, , UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Wasp update
Its very hard to realy tell with a REAR failure its the chicken and egg - for example it lost a third of its blades the rest were bent also the rear bearing was gone - so did the turbine fail distroying the bearing or did the bearing go distroying the turbine ???? time to get it under the mag glass to see the type of fractures.
No flames or smoke came out it just stopped (baby boomer) plane was fine but the exaust cone was only held on by one bolt - the others had sheared off.
I know turbines and bearing go BUT there are many ???? marks over this engine now - very long spool up times to avoid flame outs - thrust quoted figures - highest turbine tip speed of ANY other engine (a fair bit over 1000mph - 99.9999% of other manufacturers keep it well below 1000mph for good reason). So this is just an addition to these issues. People need to know as heck I was gonna buy one I'm very glad I waited. Phil is a good engineer I've been told also people in the gtba DO feel he WILL get the engine right but people are questioning if he should be selling it until he develops it further.
All the best
Ant
No flames or smoke came out it just stopped (baby boomer) plane was fine but the exaust cone was only held on by one bolt - the others had sheared off.
I know turbines and bearing go BUT there are many ???? marks over this engine now - very long spool up times to avoid flame outs - thrust quoted figures - highest turbine tip speed of ANY other engine (a fair bit over 1000mph - 99.9999% of other manufacturers keep it well below 1000mph for good reason). So this is just an addition to these issues. People need to know as heck I was gonna buy one I'm very glad I waited. Phil is a good engineer I've been told also people in the gtba DO feel he WILL get the engine right but people are questioning if he should be selling it until he develops it further.
All the best
Ant
04-18-2006 | 10:12 AM
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From: Redditch, , UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Wasp update
Fletcher they couldn't get it running properly on the test bench until phil turned up and replaced the KIT combustion chamber - but I am sure they will include this.
So what are you saying its not important to know that it blew up 4 mins into its first flight???? mmmm odd
nutter
So what are you saying its not important to know that it blew up 4 mins into its first flight???? mmmm odd
nutter
04-18-2006 | 10:36 AM
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From: kenilworth , UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Wasp update
ORIGINAL: Rutter The Nutter
Fletcher they couldn't get it running properly on the test bench until phil turned up and replaced the KIT combustion chamber - but I am sure they will include this.
nutter
Fletcher they couldn't get it running properly on the test bench until phil turned up and replaced the KIT combustion chamber - but I am sure they will include this.
nutter
Funny you should say that, I was looking at the vapouriser tubes and noticed that they were not using the "T" sticks anymore and decided to go the AMT route and use a "U" type tube instead.
jason
04-18-2006 | 10:36 AM
#16
RE: Wasp update
ORIGINAL: Rutter The Nutter
Fletcher they couldn't get it running properly on the test bench until phil turned up and replaced the KIT combustion chamber - but I am sure they will include this.
So what are you saying its not important to know that it blew up 4 mins into its first flight???? mmmm odd
nutter
Fletcher they couldn't get it running properly on the test bench until phil turned up and replaced the KIT combustion chamber - but I am sure they will include this.
So what are you saying its not important to know that it blew up 4 mins into its first flight???? mmmm odd
nutter
sounds to me that it was a rear bearing failure.
even the best engines have problems, please don't slag it off as a crap engine until the facts come out of what actually failed.
i'd still buy off Phill because i know his engines are good
04-18-2006 | 11:07 AM
#17
RE: Wasp update
Chaps, i've just spoken to Phill and he's given me these details of what appears to happened/caused the failure.
The starter motor bendix seems to have failed to disengage from the compressor nut, this motor has acted like a generator and fried the ECU,
at the same time it would have taken the load off the preload spring causing the rear bearing to fail, the starter motor has
also failed due to the high speed it would have been taken up to (electric motors don't like being taken to high RPM)
the turbine disk is in one piece and has NOT seperated although there are several blades missing which is what any engine will give in a rear bearing failure, that or the tips of the blades will be ground down severally
these are some of the facts of this wasp failure, the cause could have been from the following,these are the 2 possible causes of this engine failure that i can think of. :-
1: ECU fails to disengage power to the starter motor.......which would cause:-
starter motor goes overspeed and acts like a generator overloading ECU, at the sametime
the starter causes an underload of preload causing rear bearing failure, starter goes too fast and fries it's bearings
2: Starter motor bendix shaft has a fault and fails to disengage from the compressor........which would cause:
starter motor goes over speed and acts like a generator overloading ECU, preload overload and rear bearing skids causing rear bearing failure and the starter goes too fast and fries it's bearings.
my guess is it was the ECU.
the reason i say ECU is because i've never heard of a starter motor bendix failing to disengage from the compressor nut.
if it's happened in the past then i haven't heard of it.
hope this helps to give you some ideas of the fault, i leave you to make up your own minds.
The starter motor bendix seems to have failed to disengage from the compressor nut, this motor has acted like a generator and fried the ECU,
at the same time it would have taken the load off the preload spring causing the rear bearing to fail, the starter motor has
also failed due to the high speed it would have been taken up to (electric motors don't like being taken to high RPM)
the turbine disk is in one piece and has NOT seperated although there are several blades missing which is what any engine will give in a rear bearing failure, that or the tips of the blades will be ground down severally
these are some of the facts of this wasp failure, the cause could have been from the following,these are the 2 possible causes of this engine failure that i can think of. :-
1: ECU fails to disengage power to the starter motor.......which would cause:-
starter motor goes overspeed and acts like a generator overloading ECU, at the sametime
the starter causes an underload of preload causing rear bearing failure, starter goes too fast and fries it's bearings
2: Starter motor bendix shaft has a fault and fails to disengage from the compressor........which would cause:
starter motor goes over speed and acts like a generator overloading ECU, preload overload and rear bearing skids causing rear bearing failure and the starter goes too fast and fries it's bearings.
my guess is it was the ECU.
the reason i say ECU is because i've never heard of a starter motor bendix failing to disengage from the compressor nut.
if it's happened in the past then i haven't heard of it.
hope this helps to give you some ideas of the fault, i leave you to make up your own minds.
04-18-2006 | 11:16 AM
#18
RE: Wasp update
If the starter power was left on, would the load on the compressor nut not be removed as soon as the engine started spinning faster than the starter motor? I wouldn't have thought that the engine would drive the starter motor to that sort of extreme speed.
This is not a criticism of the diagnosis. Just interested in exactly how the bendix would behave.
This is not a criticism of the diagnosis. Just interested in exactly how the bendix would behave.
04-18-2006 | 11:56 AM
#20
RE: Wasp update
No Paul that can't be right. Rutter the Nutter said the engine just exploded in the air. He wouldn't go off half cocked would he? He wouldn't bad mouth something whilst only knowing half the facts? No, surely not
Regards,
John
Regards,
John
04-18-2006 | 12:12 PM
#21
RE: Wasp update
ORIGINAL: JohnMac
No Paul that can't be right. Rutter the Nutter said the engine just exploded in the air. He wouldn't go off half cocked would he? He wouldn't bad mouth something whilst only knowing half the facts? No, surely not
Regards,
John
No Paul that can't be right. Rutter the Nutter said the engine just exploded in the air. He wouldn't go off half cocked would he? He wouldn't bad mouth something whilst only knowing half the facts? No, surely not
Regards,
John
04-18-2006 | 12:14 PM
#22
RE: Wasp update
ORIGINAL: siclick33
If the starter power was left on, would the load on the compressor nut not be removed as soon as the engine started spinning faster than the starter motor? I wouldn't have thought that the engine would drive the starter motor to that sort of extreme speed.
This is not a criticism of the diagnosis. Just interested in exactly how the bendix would behave.
If the starter power was left on, would the load on the compressor nut not be removed as soon as the engine started spinning faster than the starter motor? I wouldn't have thought that the engine would drive the starter motor to that sort of extreme speed.
This is not a criticism of the diagnosis. Just interested in exactly how the bendix would behave.
these turbines do have quite a lot of torque, certainly enough to drive an electric motor to destruction.
04-18-2006 | 01:53 PM
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RE: Wasp update
I guess only time will tell to see what happened to the motor, the one I have has just over a hour on it and runs great, it's a solid little motor although I haven't had it on a stand with a thrust meter, I would venture to say its very close to 20lbs +/- a bit.
04-18-2006 | 02:23 PM
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From: , UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Wasp update
ORIGINAL: pauls Microjets
Chaps, i've just spoken to Phill and he's given me these details of what appears to happened/caused the failure.
The starter motor bendix seems to have failed to disengage from the compressor nut, this motor has acted like a generator and fried the ECU,
at the same time it would have taken the load off the preload spring causing the rear bearing to fail, the starter motor has
also failed due to the high speed it would have been taken up to (electric motors don't like being taken to high RPM)
the turbine disk is in one piece and has NOT seperated although there are several blades missing which is what any engine will give in a rear bearing failure, that or the tips of the blades will be ground down severally
these are some of the facts of this wasp failure, the cause could have been from the following,these are the 2 possible causes of this engine failure that i can think of. :-
1: ECU fails to disengage power to the starter motor.......which would cause:-
starter motor goes overspeed and acts like a generator overloading ECU, at the sametime
the starter causes an underload of preload causing rear bearing failure, starter goes too fast and fries it's bearings
2: Starter motor bendix shaft has a fault and fails to disengage from the compressor........which would cause:
starter motor goes over speed and acts like a generator overloading ECU, preload overload and rear bearing skids causing rear bearing failure and the starter goes too fast and fries it's bearings.
my guess is it was the ECU.
the reason i say ECU is because i've never heard of a starter motor bendix failing to disengage from the compressor nut.
if it's happened in the past then i haven't heard of it.
hope this helps to give you some ideas of the fault, i leave you to make up your own minds.
Chaps, i've just spoken to Phill and he's given me these details of what appears to happened/caused the failure.
The starter motor bendix seems to have failed to disengage from the compressor nut, this motor has acted like a generator and fried the ECU,
at the same time it would have taken the load off the preload spring causing the rear bearing to fail, the starter motor has
also failed due to the high speed it would have been taken up to (electric motors don't like being taken to high RPM)
the turbine disk is in one piece and has NOT seperated although there are several blades missing which is what any engine will give in a rear bearing failure, that or the tips of the blades will be ground down severally
these are some of the facts of this wasp failure, the cause could have been from the following,these are the 2 possible causes of this engine failure that i can think of. :-
1: ECU fails to disengage power to the starter motor.......which would cause:-
starter motor goes overspeed and acts like a generator overloading ECU, at the sametime
the starter causes an underload of preload causing rear bearing failure, starter goes too fast and fries it's bearings
2: Starter motor bendix shaft has a fault and fails to disengage from the compressor........which would cause:
starter motor goes over speed and acts like a generator overloading ECU, preload overload and rear bearing skids causing rear bearing failure and the starter goes too fast and fries it's bearings.
my guess is it was the ECU.
the reason i say ECU is because i've never heard of a starter motor bendix failing to disengage from the compressor nut.
if it's happened in the past then i haven't heard of it.
hope this helps to give you some ideas of the fault, i leave you to make up your own minds.
..WHAT...?
ORIGINAL: Rutter The Nutter
....Well I've just heard it didn't go very well as they struggled to get it running then it blew up in an airframe after 4 mins flying
....Well I've just heard it didn't go very well as they struggled to get it running then it blew up in an airframe after 4 mins flying
....how could the starter motor could be stuck on yet nothing happened for FOUR minutes.
04-18-2006 | 03:47 PM
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From: , UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Wasp update
Is this Wasp using the Taiwan made 60mm Jetbeetle turbine wheel ?... if so what level of certification does it carry...?
Also ...Have'nt there been Several.bearing failures on wasps..?
