I'm pondering whether or not to ditch EDF and to go Wren Supersport or similar.

Is there anyone who flies turbines near Barnstaple, whom I could come and watch in action and pick up some tips; not least about where to buy jet juice a bit more cheaply than the local hardware store paraffin!

Regards

Gordon

GORDON, the dark site too :-)))!?

What is with your DS94 + X.......??!!
You have started a wonderful project I think, the Mig17. Isn´t it?!

Good luke,

best regards Martin

HI Gordon,
I too pondered on this. I bought a BobCat while I was building my F4. I really like to fly alot and the fuel and fly concept works for me well. This past weekend at a jet meet I made over twenty flights. Until something changes in batteries, either faster charging and lower prices. It is hard for me to justify these big packs that can be ruined in a blink! I am limiting my edf stuff to my Jepe F-16 which fly like a turbine as your know. But I am definately not adding any large edf models to the stable for right now.

Hi Gordon,

My JMA members list has no one from Devon or Cornwall!

I reckon your nearest model Jet-friendly airfield is Merryfield!

However if you are going turbine the Wren SS is probably the most versatile choice.

The best place to get fuel is a general aviation field, I got my last batch of Jet A1 from Henstridge at 60p/litre
Graham

Hi Gordon,

My JMA members list has no one from Devon or Cornwall!

I reckon your nearest model Jet-friendly airfield is Merryfield!

However if you are going turbine the Wren SS is probably the most versatile choice.

The best place to get fuel is a general aviation field, I got my last batch of jet A1 from Henstridge at 60p/litre
Graham

Thanks for your replies guys.

@ Martin: I must admit to constantly considering going turbine, but will fly the DS94/Lehner on 12 lipos and 60A, say 2.5kW first! I'm selling off all my 90mm EDFs as they are really too small to be exciting any more. However, I do have a pair of 90mm Schubis and Lehners for 9s to use up, so should be able to stick 3.5kW or so into a big (say 76" long therefore not huge but big enough!) Meteor or Sea Vixen within a short period of time. The MiG 19 is still under consideration for the DS94 and I've schemed the ducting and lipo installation, but I'm also drawn back to the Gnat at 1/5th scale, a tad bigger than the Carpenter one.

@ Bob: I agree with you on batteries and prices. The motors and fan units last for ever, so all we need is for lipos to drop in price to nickel levels, and it'll be much better. Regarding numbers of flights per session, I've been taking six 6s packs along to fly my 90mm EDFs which use 6s, and getting 8 flights with a couple of re-charges, so have been reasonably happy with that. Twenty turbine flights indicates that you must have a vehicle big enough to carry two 5-gallon drums of fuel!! Over here that'd be £50 in kerosene, but Jet A1 would be 60% of that cost - if I didn't have to drive 60 miles to buy it. My car would have problems fitting one 5-gall drum inside along with the model, though I guess a bunch of 1 gall containers in the footwells would work out.

@ Graham: I think that you're right about the lack of turbine flyers near me. A pity, as I fly off the runways at the old RAF Chivenor two miles from my house! There are some small private airfields locally, but I suspect they don't have avtur as they're into Cessnas and microlights, though there might be a chopper or two. I'll have to pop along to an event at Westonzoyland sometime and have a nosey. I did attend one of Dick Spreadbury's Classic Jets events a couple of years ago and had a great time there with my Bandito and Vector, but it was a 400 mile round trip from here. The bottom line is that I live in the wrong area!!

One attraction of lipos which makes them attractive despite their expense is that the same packs will fly a 1/4 scale aerobatic bipe as will fly a 2.5kW EDF, and that bit of versatility is worth having. You can get either 20mins with the bipe, or 10 min with an EDF, either way not a bad way to enjoy some flying. And the packs are a lot less bulky than cans of juice!

That being said, I'll still lust after a turbine!

Best regards

Gordon

Hi Gordon

Sedgemoor has an event in September see attached link,

www.srcfc.org.uk/sedgemoor_open.htm

Normally there are a few jet flyers who attend from around the Country. At the last count there are six members who fly turbines in the club and we can fly seven days a week. Merrifield is a better quality runway surface but they have restricted flying choices

Regards Ian

Thanks for the info and the link Ian.

It's a pity the Sedgemoor Open date has changed from last year as we're booked to go on holiday then []

Oh well. Some other time, certainly. I was a member of your club maybe 12 years ago when I was at RAF Locking (everywhere I was in the RAF is shut down now!) and flew my GDF Philip Noel Mirage there, so remember the site as being pretty good.

Best regards

Gordon

Devon and Cornwall may be nice places to live but if theres no JMA members or places to fly jets then you simply just gota move! Maybe you should apply to the JMA for a relocation grant

Jason

Ian, is the sedgemore meet a jet meet or will there be be guys strugling to take a vintage model off in the cross wind while jets are doing 200 mph passes again?

Jason

Just because there are no JMA members does not mean there are no jet flyers, it just might be harder to find them. IMHO the JMA does not offer a huge amount, particularly for those of us that live out of the 'central' area. I am open to be convinced otherwise.

Some of the larger airports are a bit funny about selling Jet A1. The smaller ones might be better. I am not sure how far Exeter is or whether you would have any luck there?

Bugger...wish someone had told me Brize was shut - I've been going there every day for the past 5 1/2 years!


Hi Gordon, trust all's well...CJs on next Friday if you fancy a trip 'abroad'! Pete Nye'll be there with his Sea Hawk (not flying yet).

Cheers,

Dick

Hi Jason

No and yes

It is open to props as well as turbines. but I will try to persuade them to run slots so not to mix.

The good thing for the open is jet flyers can fly props if they still feel the need!!!!!!

Camp site and the pub are available

Ref Gordons relocation sounds like he might be a risk !!!!!!!!!!!!! closing airfields

Best regards Ian


Ian

Hi Dick

We're doing fine thanks and hope you're all well too. Can't make CJ next Friday as we're on holiday then also - darn it, sounds as if retirement is all holidays

Pete sez that you'll be maidening his Sea Hawk you lucky sod - best wishes for that as it's a beautiful looking machine and perfect for old style graceful and smooth aerobatics. I'll look forward to seeing you ease it through its paces one day.

Hi Ian, we're all relying on Dick to keep the flying going at Abingdon - I wuz there too, so what with Brize being still open, it looks as if Dick's 'fluence is stronger than mine

Cheers

Gordon

Ian, the sedgemore meet was always a favorate for many jet modellers untill they made it a free for all. But when theres only a hand full of jets in the club I can see it would be difficult to get it agreed but its still a real shame the sedgemore club decided to do a props as well as jets meet.
It's kept a lot of jet people away and because of this there was not as many jets as props so the organisers decided to mix the slots aswell which was rediculus (especially when theres vintage in the air at the same time...) Try and use your powers to get a real jet meet!

jason

Gordon, you have the Chiv. runway to fly from and you haven't got a turbine !!! Its a no brainer. Gotta be a Wren Supersport too (collecting mine on Wednesday) After that first flight you'll realise just what you've been missing !

Regards, David Gladwin.

Hi Dave

Welcome back to the UK, and thanks for bringing some good Aussie weather with you!

I don't have a feel for the operating costs of turbines, and with juice at a quid a litre and maybe 3 litres a flight, it looks on the face of it as if the running costs could get expensive (in relation to income of course!). I do wonder just how much flying per year most jet jockeys on moderate incomes do achieve.

Oh well. We'll see.

Just have to keep practising with the little-uns for now

Gordon

There are disadvantages to living so far away from the big population centres! Yes jet fuel is cheaper than glow fuel but consumption is so much higher, but the fun level is also much higher. I buy my fuel at Gloucestershire airport for around 60p/litre which is a lot less than paraffin at the diy store, I also buy the turbine oil from the jet maintenance business at the airport for a lot less than model shops usually charge. Try Exeter airport, there is no good reason why they wouldn't sell you jet fuel, the problem is getting airside to the bowsers, not a problem for me because I fly full size from Gloucestershire anyway but several model jet fliers seem to have no problem getting permission through the Glos airport terminal to go airside to buy fuel.

Harry

Hi Harry

There are a couple of small airstrips near us, one at Bellevue on the way to Torrington, and the other at Eaglescot near the Burrington radar, around 10 and 20 miles away respectively. We can fly models at Eaglescot too. I'll have to see if either or both have jet fuel, but I guess that's unlikely. Exeter is 60 miles away, so not really worth the time, effort and expense involved in getting there and back for maybe 5 gallons of avtur.

When I was based at RAF Innsworth and living in Churchdown about 7 years ago, you probably used to take off over our house! If you were in the Spitfire, you're forgiven, but if you were flying those rattly noisy old Pipers and Cessnas that had such a struggle to clear our house at about 30mph groundspeed due to both the wind, and the fact that Churchdown is way uphill from Staverton so the planes had to be on climbing power for ages, you're not

Regards

Gordon

A Piper or Cessna!!! Heaven forfend, spit spit. Horrid horrid spam cans with no handling and abysmal lack of a view out of them. I fly proper planes, Robin or Beagle Pup, with real handling and aerobatic capability The Spitfire was sold to someone in the USA. The chap who owned it at Staverton made his money by being the inventor of the "widget" in beer cans!

Eaglescott has jet fuel though the price is upped a little bit, see http://www.eaglescott-airfield.com/html/facilities.html
A lot of little airfields that don't have jet planes actually do have jets because of turbine helicopters so they need to keep jet fuel to attract the helis.

Harry

Unfortunately it's not that easy. Jet fuel is supposed to be for 'aviation use only' and will usually only be dispensed into aircraft fuel tanks (saying that model aircraft is 'aviation use' doesn't seem to wash). Some places allow you to sign a disclaimer if you take fuel away whereas others (BP) will simply refuse to sell it. BP also refuse to sell it on security grounds as some idiot bought some, poured it onto an airliner and set fire to it. Neither Inverness or Aberdeen airport will sell Jet A-1.


With regard to cost, a Wren 44 will burn 1 litre per flight which I don't think is that expensive. Bigger engines obviously burn more fuel but I personally think the running costs are worth it. I have to drive a couple of hours each way to get more fuel but I coincide it with a shopping trip or visit to another flying site and buy enough to keep me going for a few weeks.

Gordon,

Here's a solution...put half a dozen Jerry cans in Micky Rudd's car and have him bring it back after one of his Hunter maintenance days down at Exeter...if he's still doing it...haven't heard from him for a while!

Cheers,

Dick

@ Dick: That is a possible solution worth bearing in mind, though I haven't seen Mick for a couple of years. I do know that he's had some health probs, but he's gently easing himself back into the Hunter maintenance.

@ Harry: Thanks for the Eaglescott link. 70p a litre is a LOT better than 100p!! I used to fly with the model club there and would join again if the aifield will sell me the juice - I'll get over there and check 'em out. The grass strip used by the modellers is well-maintained too and quite smooth, and one could probably operate a model turbine from there without any FOD problems.

@ siclick33: The MW44 is a nice engine, but I do want to go up a size in models from that power range. I need to do a lot more researching and planning on model sizes of course, but I think the Supersport would be about right for what I want to do - especially as we have a nice big airfield on the doorstep on which the smaller models get too small too quickly

I have the dosh for the engine saved already, but need to look at retracts, wheels, brakes, digital servos, Rx power supply etc so there's still some way to go regarding savings before I begin to actually spend. The 10X is still firing nicely on all channels, so that's a saving (I hope! - it's getting on a bit now). Then of course there's the model. Lotsa thought about that - scratch-design or kit, probably the former for economy, but I'll decide on that nearer the time.

The future is beginning to look more and more turbine-oriented!

Regards

Gordon

Gordon,
We are lucky or fortunate here in the states or at least I am. K1 is available around the corner at the local gas, sorry petrol station, and is just $2.89 a gallon. I have four fying fields with asphalt within a 1/2 hour drive and access to a full scale runway with zero traffic within 1 hour. I still like the "clean" flying edf offers and I think those that argue about which is cheaper, which I am not doing with you is a mute point. I could have quite a few battery packs for what I spent on my Turbine/composite plane combination. As you know I converted the Yellow F4 which is a fantastic flyer and a nice size model. A local fellow bought it from me shortly after the intial flight. I will most likely build another this winter but time will tell for certain. There is nothing quite like the rush of flying my Jepe F-16 on 1100+ watts and yet it still lands like a trainer.
Regards,
Bob