Hi.
Is the Cermark F-16 and The Tamjet F-16 the same plane? Are these folks just two different importers. Cermark F-16 is much cheaper to buy.
Dom

The Cermark F-16 is the same "base" plane as the OLD Tamjets F16, but Tam's included various upgrades that the Cermark one doesn't. Tam's also comes with proven support, whereas the Cermark folks are still trying to figure out what turbines are all about and how they work. Thusfar, the few people who have bought an F16 from Cermark appear to have all come on RCU begging for help from Tam or Tam's customers because their questions to Cermark have gone unanswered.

The CURRENT F16 from Tam is a completely different beast - all composite rather than wooden wings etc., and is designed from the ground up as a turbine model.

Gordon

I agree. I have had 3 of the little Tamjets jewels, and one Cermark. The kit is the same. Tam spent countless hours and big bucks developing it only to be messed over by Cermark. The kit from Cermark will be missing many important hardware items. The manual is junk, and in fact has some errors that are dangerous. The pipe is a copy made in China instead of a Tams pipe. However, you can build it if you know what you are doing, and you will have a nice jet. The new composite that Tam is putting out is a superior jet and much more scale like. The support you will receive from Tamjets is like the TV commercial, Priceless. You will be successful in your build, period. So, you can go the Cermark route and roll the dice, or buy from Tam and know you are getting quality and support. And no, I am not a Tamjets rep. Just a satisfied customer who will continue to do business with someone I trust. Bob

is this the same level of support people were getting when their Tam bought Viperjets were having their elevators rip off ??


Wojtek

Wojtek, are you trying to make the point that Tam's service is not as good as Cermark's or just a slam at Tam-Jets? Comments like yours with no solid details won't work for most of us. I also noticed that you said Tam bought, not manufactured Viperjets. Whats the deal with that. I'm sure that I can find some people that would be unhappy with any service, but I have personally met many more that are totally happy with Tam's products and service.

Doug

Doug - just ignore the troll. He's always attacking someone, which is why he's been banned from RCU multiple times. Rewarding him with attention is the worst thing you can do. Just ignore the desperate plea for attention, and move on.

Would you mind expanding on the missing hardware items and dangerous errors in the manual? As you already know since you asked for (and I sent you) a copy of the included manual I am now selling the Cermark F-16. I genuinely want to provide the best product possible to my customers. Since RCU is a place for the free flow of ideas I hope we can have a civil discourse about this. If there are dangerous errors then it is important for all jet modelers that we warn the unwary about them.

Keith Hollifield

Keith

Could you please add in your sig line your commercial affiliation. It is RCU requirment if you have to post here.

Thanks in advance for your prompt action.

Best Regards

Ben

Sorry. I thought that with my username being the name of my business that requirement would be covered. Speeders Model Shop has been added to my signature.

I am not trying to instigate anything here. I think that these jets represent a great deal for guys looking to try a turbine. I can't tell you how hard it is not to take one home and build it tonight.

I have read the original F-16 thread from front to rear. It is unfortunate that Tam got ripped off. I frequently get ripped off by the big distributors. They sell me an item at $X and it is on their sales site the next week for $X-20%. It stinks but unless we are going to come up with enough cash to compete with them or go back to building everything from scratch that is what we have to put up with. Considering these jets are going to be sold by someone at least with me you get a current waiver holder and AMA contest director who is willing to listen.

Now back to the original topic:

It has been confirmed by everyone involved that the Cermark F-16 turbine jet kit IS the same one that Tam originally sold. It appears the landing gear sets are the same as evidenced by the Tamjets logo on the airtank. The pipe is a dual-wall stainless steel pipe with fanfold between the inner and outer tube. It has a bellmouth and a reinforcement at the rear. The quality seems very good.

I keep hearing talk of mysterious additions to the kits. There is just not much that you could add to the mix. All you have left is control horns and pushrods. You might want a few ball links to use on the retract and brake valves. What am I missing?

Keith

I have read the original F-16 thread from front to rear. It is unfortunate that Tam got ripped off. I frequently get ripped off by the big distributors. They sell me an item at $X and it is on their sales site the next week for $X-20%.

If you knew. Why doing it?
You have know idea how much I lost doing business with this company.
My advise to you. They will do it again and again.

Great product. Great price. Consumer demand.

Anyone care to elaborate about the differences in the instructions or hardware?

Tam - I am sending you a PM.

Keith

Keith,

I have never seen a Cermark F-16. So I can't comment on the kit. All I CAN say is that the TamJets F16 that I purchased from Tam was the most complete package that I have ever seen. It literally had everything in the box to build the jet less the servos,RX, batteries,switch and Turbine. I understand your quest for the "free flow of information"....but at what cost to your customers. Tam and his crew spent a lot of time, effort and $$ developing this ARF and now you want to cash in on this "free" information without even buying one to copy it[>:]

Tailwinds,

John

Keith.

On the Market Place you asked if anyone wanted a copy of your Cermark Manual, to just ask for it. Here is your generous reply to me. First was this one and then about 20 minutes later was an actual copy of the Cermark F-16 manual. Just for the Record, I do have one already, as a matter of fact I had two that came from Tam one was sold and I have the other, and yes I just wanted to see if you where using the same manual that TAM made.

The instructios are different and mounting of servos is of a different nature. Anyway here is the reply.



-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Hollifield <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 09:31:36 -0400
Subject: RE: Question Re: Item 204052 in R/C Marketplace


Everyone is so intersted in the instructions. The jet is so put
together I doubt you really even need them. In any case, these come
with the instructions provided by Cermark. Thanks!

Keith Hollifield

Speeders Model Shop
www.speedersonline.com

Stuff We Like Inc.
www.stuffwelike.net


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 7:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Question Re: Item 204052 in R/C Marketplace




YOU HAVE RECEIVED A QUESTION REGARDING ITEM 204052 - CERMARK / TAMJETS
F-16 AIRFRAME, PIPE AND GEAR:

--------------SCAM ALERT--------------

Do not reply to emails that offer to purchase your item using a complex
cashiers check scheme or other unusual payment methods. Also be wary of
"Western Union" and "Money Order" offers.

Check the "Scammers List" in our market under the "Feedback" tab. You
can search for this user's username and see if they are on the list.

Finally, if the user is a brand new member, be on the alert.

--------------------------------------


------------MESSAGE SENDER------------

MEMBER ID: 24912

USERNAME: Turbulence

JOINED RCU: Jan 07 2002

Look up this member's profile: http://24912.rcuniverse.com

--------------------------------------


------------MESSAGE START-------------

What kind of instructions come with your Kit?


Ralph


------------MESSAGE END---------------


***THE INDIVIDUAL CHOSE NOT TO POST THIS QUESTION TO THE AD LISTING***

You may respond to the member by clicking reply on this email or, if you
would like to avoid similar questions on the same item, you can post
your reply directly to your item listing! To do this, just return to
your listing and create a new post in the "Discussion" area of your ad.
Here is your link:

Item Link:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/ite...4052&cobrand=1

Thank you,

RC Universe Market

I am building a cermark F-16 for a coustomer that bought the complete package .
I also have seen the Tam f-16 ( no difference ) except lack of manual , but if you'r building turbines
you should know what you are doing by now, just need ball park control throws and your there.
A couple of after market servo trays and its a done deal, nice plane who ever sells it .
Would i buy one? Well $695 ( jet only ) is hard to beat.

LOL - Now seriously... Who's the one trying to cash in here?

Keith

WOW That's a deal Specially since Cermark list the following:

Plane $695
Landing Gear $495
Pipe $99

Total $1289.00 Plus Shipping.

Please let me know where I can buy it for $500 and I will buy another. That or how does that song go (Pass the Douchie to da left hand side) Well however you spell or say that, I am sure you get the point.

Turbulence

Guy's,
I would hate to see this thread about someone asking a question on a kit turn into something negative. The facts stated here are correct, its no secret that the original TamJet F-16 came from the same mould as the Cermark. Tam upgraded all the accessories in his kits, and came with a very detailed instruction manual. TamJets is not selling these kits anymore, and our only involvement with this plane is to support our customers who have purchased them from us. So there is really no point in getting into a discussion anymore about what the differences are when buying THIS kit from TamJets Vs Cermark......nobody ever seems to win in these discussions. Just select a kit that you like, buy it from a manufacturer/dealer who you trust, and go out and enjoy the hobby.

As always, we at Tamjets wish the best of luck to everyone in their building and flying, and if there is anything we can do to help please don’t hesitate to call.

Dave

Keith,

Now it took me a long time and a private message to realize BUT YES your manual is Dangerous not trying to bash you or your sales, but at least read the post about the airplane (TAMJETS f-16) from start to finish and you will find your answer and why it is Dangerous. I do beleive if built exactly to your manual (or Cermark) you will not have even ONE succesfull flight

Turbulence

since you had to speak up Gordon, let me reply ..

I have been on the receiving end of Tam's "customer service" in the past, and was presented by absolutely atrocious, slanderous, and dishonest tratment from Tam. To me RCU is like Consumer Reports for the RC comunity in a way. Some BS is just too much to ignore, and i will speak where i feel like it. This is as far as i will go here now. continue addressing me as a troll and we can all rehash the deal again .. I understand some people get great support from Tam... they freely speak their mind here .. many of us did not get support or were not treated ethically, we as well have our right to state our opinions as well. So i suggest YOU stop trolling here instead and get back on topic


Wojtek

Wojtek,
Happy 4th of July.
Go spend time with your son and tell how great the father you are.

You mean like you and Sparks? Or you and Feibao?

Jeez, Tam...both of those companies "ripped off" Skymaster, so why are you doing business with them?

Same reasons as Keith?

As an aside...

I know Keith a bit, and I have gotten nothing but EXCELLENT service from him, he's definitely in the "reputable dealer" file, in my experience.

ET,
Happy 4th of July.
Hook up some fire work to your foamie airplane and have fun.

gota give it to you Tam, thats a good response

same to you


Voy

Oh, Keith.......No doubt about it, I AM! I'm not trying to hide behind the premise of "the free exchange of information" and such. I'm offering this fantastic deal to you as a result of my efforts. No plagiarism or hidden agendas. Just the result of my investment along with the added value of my tweaking and trimming efforts....Now that I think about it.......keeping in mind that you will most likely PROFIT from these efforts, let's make the price $5500.......'still not bad considering the limited availability of this itellectual property.......this will get you up to speed so that you can start marketing these F-16s...........As "The Donald" says........Nothing personal, just business.........

John

"I do beleive if built exactly to your manual (or Cermark) you will not have even ONE succesfull flight". Ralph, can you tell us some details about why you said that? What are the issues in the manual? Thanks.