Super Balsa Bandit Servo's
10-20-2006 | 11:35 AM
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From: Haverfordwest, UNITED KINGDOM
Super Balsa Bandit Servo's
I have ordered myself a Super Balsa Bandit and am whilst I am waiting for it to arrive could anybody could give me a list a suggested servo requirements for this model, just want to plan ahead and get a list of what's needed.
Thanks in Advance
Nick
10-20-2006 | 11:55 AM
#2
RE: Super Balsa Bandit Servo's
Nick
Ask me...
American numbers are different to the UK ones.
I would use DS8321 9.0kg on everything but Flaps where I use plastic geared servos just in case of a gear problem.
So 8231 6.5kg
Valves require either NES331 or DS 362 3-4kg
Regards
Dave
Ask me...
American numbers are different to the UK ones.
I would use DS8321 9.0kg on everything but Flaps where I use plastic geared servos just in case of a gear problem.
So 8231 6.5kg
Valves require either NES331 or DS 362 3-4kg
Regards
Dave
10-20-2006 | 11:58 AM
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From: Mother Earth, the Sunny side!
RE: Super Balsa Bandit Servo's
Hi Nick: I think BVM web site has it. At any rate, you will need the usual two 8411/8611 servos for flaps and elev, one more for air brake, 9411 for rudder, 3421 or 9411 for ail, and the rest is easy to figure out....hope this gives you a small idea of what to expect....
10-20-2006 | 12:25 PM
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From: Longwood ,
FL
RE: Super Balsa Bandit Servo's
Minch,
For the Balsa Bandit, BVM recommends the use of a metal geared servo on the flaps. The specific recommendation is for a 2721.
The reason being, is that a metal geared servo is much more tolerant of being bumped during transport, or other types of mishandling.
I can't tell you how many times at a meet, during the noon time line-up on the runway, someones small child (or even an adult) has come too close to or has bumped a surface with their foot or leg.
This will sometimes lead to servo geartrain failure, and possible loss of the airplane.
The last thing you need is a previously stressed all nylon gear train locking up when you lower the flaps. One flap up and one flap down is a giant aileron, and you may not have enough altitude or airspeed to recover from the ensuing roll.
BVM recommends 8411's for the ailerons, 8411's or 2721's for the elevators, and 2721 for the rudder (either swept fin or standard). All are metal geared.
Speed brake is 2721.
Brake valve and landing gear valve is 351 (again, metal geared).
Sorry, but I can't give you the European equivalent of the 2721 or 8411 or 351. The JR website might be of help.
All JR metal geared servos have a sacraficial nylon gear at the lowest stressed point in the gear train.
I am busy installing servos in the wing of a Super Bandit (composite wing) right now, and am using the 2721's and 8611A's.
This info is from the construction manual.
I hope you enjoy your Bandit....
Cheers,
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
For the Balsa Bandit, BVM recommends the use of a metal geared servo on the flaps. The specific recommendation is for a 2721.
The reason being, is that a metal geared servo is much more tolerant of being bumped during transport, or other types of mishandling.
I can't tell you how many times at a meet, during the noon time line-up on the runway, someones small child (or even an adult) has come too close to or has bumped a surface with their foot or leg.
This will sometimes lead to servo geartrain failure, and possible loss of the airplane.
The last thing you need is a previously stressed all nylon gear train locking up when you lower the flaps. One flap up and one flap down is a giant aileron, and you may not have enough altitude or airspeed to recover from the ensuing roll.
BVM recommends 8411's for the ailerons, 8411's or 2721's for the elevators, and 2721 for the rudder (either swept fin or standard). All are metal geared.
Speed brake is 2721.
Brake valve and landing gear valve is 351 (again, metal geared).
Sorry, but I can't give you the European equivalent of the 2721 or 8411 or 351. The JR website might be of help.
All JR metal geared servos have a sacraficial nylon gear at the lowest stressed point in the gear train.
I am busy installing servos in the wing of a Super Bandit (composite wing) right now, and am using the 2721's and 8611A's.
This info is from the construction manual.
I hope you enjoy your Bandit....
Cheers,
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
10-20-2006 | 01:26 PM
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From: Mother Earth, the Sunny side!
RE: Super Balsa Bandit Servo's
ORIGINAL: ravill
Ehab,
We are broken up right now. We are not talking to each other.....[sm=tired.gif] Oh yeah, I want half...
Raf
Ehab,
We are broken up right now. We are not talking to each other.....[sm=tired.gif] Oh yeah, I want half...
Raf
(guys, Raf and I are just kidding!)
You can't go wrong with any quality servos!!
10-20-2006 | 02:13 PM
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From: Longwood ,
FL
RE: Super Balsa Bandit Servo's
Ravill,
I have both fins for mine, (SBB) swept and standard. I have an 8411 in each, and it was no sweat. I think that 8611's might fit, if you are careful.
If you try it and it won't, use an 8411.
My SBB is on it's second life....I'm installing composite wings on it right now. I smacked the gear through the upper skins of the SBB wings, and I had some strange trim corrections built in as well.
Here it was before the composite wing change:
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
I have both fins for mine, (SBB) swept and standard. I have an 8411 in each, and it was no sweat. I think that 8611's might fit, if you are careful.
If you try it and it won't, use an 8411.
My SBB is on it's second life....I'm installing composite wings on it right now. I smacked the gear through the upper skins of the SBB wings, and I had some strange trim corrections built in as well.
Here it was before the composite wing change:
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
10-20-2006 | 02:30 PM
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From: Longwood ,
FL
RE: Super Balsa Bandit Servo's
And,
Here it is during the wing change.
I totally gutted it and removed the wing attach frames, and replaced them to ensure a perfect fit.
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
Here it is during the wing change.
I totally gutted it and removed the wing attach frames, and replaced them to ensure a perfect fit.
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
10-20-2006 | 06:26 PM
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From: Longwood ,
FL
RE: Super Balsa Bandit Servo's
A P-120 is plenty of power for the SBB at any weight. mine checks in at around 21 Lbs. dry, and has great performance.
As originally designed and kitted, the Bandit was powered by a JPX propane turbine that only made around 13 Lbs. of blow.
A P-120 has twice the thrust of the JPX.
A P-80 (If turned up), will make an honest 20 lbs, so you will have plenty of power. My first Bandit in 1999 had a 17 lb. Ram 750 (original version that had an oil tank..S/N 43), and was very fast...
Now, most of them are in the P-120 class and some are even higher. I know of one individual, who's name I won't mention, that has a P-180 in his composite Super Bandit.
It must be a virtual rocket! Short, very fast flights! My P-180 is very thirsty, so the internal fuel in a standard Susper Bandit (3.6 liters) must be consumed in short order.
Minch,
A SBB with a P-70 is a perfect combination. Build it as light as possible, without sacraficing strength, bolt in a P-70, and you will have lightweight combination that will give you very good flight times, and will be a ton of fun.
Which engine are you using?
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
As originally designed and kitted, the Bandit was powered by a JPX propane turbine that only made around 13 Lbs. of blow.
A P-120 has twice the thrust of the JPX.
A P-80 (If turned up), will make an honest 20 lbs, so you will have plenty of power. My first Bandit in 1999 had a 17 lb. Ram 750 (original version that had an oil tank..S/N 43), and was very fast...
Now, most of them are in the P-120 class and some are even higher. I know of one individual, who's name I won't mention, that has a P-180 in his composite Super Bandit.
It must be a virtual rocket! Short, very fast flights! My P-180 is very thirsty, so the internal fuel in a standard Susper Bandit (3.6 liters) must be consumed in short order.
Minch,
A SBB with a P-70 is a perfect combination. Build it as light as possible, without sacraficing strength, bolt in a P-70, and you will have lightweight combination that will give you very good flight times, and will be a ton of fun.
Which engine are you using?
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
10-21-2006 | 04:09 AM
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From: kenilworth , UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Super Balsa Bandit Servo's
Hi Nick,
I use DS 8411 on the ailerons and elevators, a DS 9411 on the rudder and 2721 non digitals on the flaps but if the set-up in done perfectly with no binding I see no reason why you can't use digitals on them too. I would not even fit the speed brake again because the Super does not need one unlike the more streamline classic bandit which does. I can really "feel the difference" between flying a bandit with digitals to one without, the one with digitals is much more precise, in fact I'm about to take some older 2721's out of my Wren powered classic and fit 8411's.
Jason
I use DS 8411 on the ailerons and elevators, a DS 9411 on the rudder and 2721 non digitals on the flaps but if the set-up in done perfectly with no binding I see no reason why you can't use digitals on them too. I would not even fit the speed brake again because the Super does not need one unlike the more streamline classic bandit which does. I can really "feel the difference" between flying a bandit with digitals to one without, the one with digitals is much more precise, in fact I'm about to take some older 2721's out of my Wren powered classic and fit 8411's.
Jason
10-21-2006 | 11:29 AM
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From: Longwood ,
FL
RE: Super Balsa Bandit Servo's
Jason,
The reason that many of us do not like to use digital servos on flaps is a simple one: Digital servos use more battery than analog servos.
A pair of extended flaps, experience heavy airloads. The airstream pushing against the flaps, cause the digital servos power consumption to rise dramatically, as they constantly push against the airloads to hold their position.
Here's a simple test:
Turn the radio on, lower the flaps to landing position then slightly apply pressure to the bottom of both flaps to simulate the airstream. The digital servos will really start to "buzz" as they respond to the applied pressure.
If you hooked up a VOM to the battery and measured the applied load, I'm very sure you would see an alarming voltage spike.
As larger, more powerful servos arrive in the marketplace, and more of them are installed in larger more powerful airplanes, the battery power available must rise accordingly.
Should you decide to use digital servos on flaps, please make sure you adjust your battery capacity and voltage upward. Higher voltages and regulators, and high capacity cell are in order.
As for the Super Bandit speedbrake, it makes good sense to install it. The added drag of the extended speedbrake makes it possible to keep the engine RPM higher on final approach. Since you are at a higher RPM, the spool up time will be reduced in case of the need to go around. Just a few words of experience from my eight years flying Bandits.
Send me your 2721's....I'll use them.
Cheers,
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
The reason that many of us do not like to use digital servos on flaps is a simple one: Digital servos use more battery than analog servos.
A pair of extended flaps, experience heavy airloads. The airstream pushing against the flaps, cause the digital servos power consumption to rise dramatically, as they constantly push against the airloads to hold their position.
Here's a simple test:
Turn the radio on, lower the flaps to landing position then slightly apply pressure to the bottom of both flaps to simulate the airstream. The digital servos will really start to "buzz" as they respond to the applied pressure.
If you hooked up a VOM to the battery and measured the applied load, I'm very sure you would see an alarming voltage spike.
As larger, more powerful servos arrive in the marketplace, and more of them are installed in larger more powerful airplanes, the battery power available must rise accordingly.
Should you decide to use digital servos on flaps, please make sure you adjust your battery capacity and voltage upward. Higher voltages and regulators, and high capacity cell are in order.
As for the Super Bandit speedbrake, it makes good sense to install it. The added drag of the extended speedbrake makes it possible to keep the engine RPM higher on final approach. Since you are at a higher RPM, the spool up time will be reduced in case of the need to go around. Just a few words of experience from my eight years flying Bandits.
Send me your 2721's....I'll use them.
Cheers,
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
10-21-2006 | 03:41 PM
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From: Longwood ,
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RE: Super Balsa Bandit Servo's
FalconWings,
Try Jerry Caudle at Pro Mak Graphics.
He can cut anything youwant, and has all of the standard BVM graphic and spray mask sets.
www.pro-mark.com
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
Try Jerry Caudle at Pro Mak Graphics.
He can cut anything youwant, and has all of the standard BVM graphic and spray mask sets.
www.pro-mark.com
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
10-21-2006 | 03:51 PM
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From: Haverfordwest, UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Super Balsa Bandit Servo's
Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the advice re servos. Right next question, with so many digital servos, what is the recommended battery/power system. I currently use on an opto isolator system and two batteries, 1 battery for the rx and one battery to power the servos. I have been working it out though I because I use Futaba Tx and Rx I am going to have to use 1, possibly 2 matchboxes otherwise I won't have enough channels.
Thanks in Advance
Nick
Thanks for all the advice re servos. Right next question, with so many digital servos, what is the recommended battery/power system. I currently use on an opto isolator system and two batteries, 1 battery for the rx and one battery to power the servos. I have been working it out though I because I use Futaba Tx and Rx I am going to have to use 1, possibly 2 matchboxes otherwise I won't have enough channels.
Thanks in Advance
Nick
10-21-2006 | 06:25 PM
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From: Longwood ,
FL
RE: Super Balsa Bandit Servo's
Minch,
I like to use two 2400 Ma 5 cell SCR Ni Cad packs from Hangtime Hobbies and 2 switches and voltage regulators from Fromeco.
The SCR Ni Cads have a very low internal impedance, around 4.5 mOhms. This means they will dump energy very fast, in case you are using lots of digital servos, and they will take a fast charge.
I don't use any kind of optical isolators or powerboxes. It like to keep it simple. Use the "KISS" principle.
In well over 600 flights, I have never lost an airplane or had any battery related problems.
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
I like to use two 2400 Ma 5 cell SCR Ni Cad packs from Hangtime Hobbies and 2 switches and voltage regulators from Fromeco.
The SCR Ni Cads have a very low internal impedance, around 4.5 mOhms. This means they will dump energy very fast, in case you are using lots of digital servos, and they will take a fast charge.
I don't use any kind of optical isolators or powerboxes. It like to keep it simple. Use the "KISS" principle.
In well over 600 flights, I have never lost an airplane or had any battery related problems.
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
10-22-2006 | 07:46 AM
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From: kenilworth , UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Super Balsa Bandit Servo's
ORIGINAL: Harley Condra
Jason,
The reason that many of us do not like to use digital servos on flaps is a simple one: Digital servos use more battery than analog servos.
A pair of extended flaps, experience heavy airloads. The airstream pushing against the flaps, cause the digital servos power consumption to rise dramatically, as they constantly push against the airloads to hold their position.
Here's a simple test:
Turn the radio on, lower the flaps to landing position then slightly apply pressure to the bottom of both flaps to simulate the airstream. The digital servos will really start to "buzz" as they respond to the applied pressure.
If you hooked up a VOM to the battery and measured the applied load, I'm very sure you would see an alarming voltage spike.
As larger, more powerful servos arrive in the marketplace, and more of them are installed in larger more powerful airplanes, the battery power available must rise accordingly.
Should you decide to use digital servos on flaps, please make sure you adjust your battery capacity and voltage upward. Higher voltages and regulators, and high capacity cell are in order.
As for the Super Bandit speedbrake, it makes good sense to install it. The added drag of the extended speedbrake makes it possible to keep the engine RPM higher on final approach. Since you are at a higher RPM, the spool up time will be reduced in case of the need to go around. Just a few words of experience from my eight years flying Bandits.
Send me your 2721's....I'll use them.
Cheers,
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
Jason,
The reason that many of us do not like to use digital servos on flaps is a simple one: Digital servos use more battery than analog servos.
A pair of extended flaps, experience heavy airloads. The airstream pushing against the flaps, cause the digital servos power consumption to rise dramatically, as they constantly push against the airloads to hold their position.
Here's a simple test:
Turn the radio on, lower the flaps to landing position then slightly apply pressure to the bottom of both flaps to simulate the airstream. The digital servos will really start to "buzz" as they respond to the applied pressure.
If you hooked up a VOM to the battery and measured the applied load, I'm very sure you would see an alarming voltage spike.
As larger, more powerful servos arrive in the marketplace, and more of them are installed in larger more powerful airplanes, the battery power available must rise accordingly.
Should you decide to use digital servos on flaps, please make sure you adjust your battery capacity and voltage upward. Higher voltages and regulators, and high capacity cell are in order.
As for the Super Bandit speedbrake, it makes good sense to install it. The added drag of the extended speedbrake makes it possible to keep the engine RPM higher on final approach. Since you are at a higher RPM, the spool up time will be reduced in case of the need to go around. Just a few words of experience from my eight years flying Bandits.
Send me your 2721's....I'll use them.
Cheers,
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
I can not claim 8 years experience in flying Bandits I'm only at 7 yrs although I have owned 5 and have sold 2 on so I still have 3 currently (one classic one super and a Arf in build) As I stated in my post " if the set-up is done perfectly" and you set the flaps up so the servo arm and linkage are straight when the flaps are in the landing position then there’s no chance of any drastic current drain. I always thought the reason BVM did not use digitals on the flaps was because of the drain that could occur in the up position if the throws were not adjusted perfectly?..But I'm sure they now recommend digitals on the arf bandit flaps? As far as the battery set up goes I use a single 4 cell 2400 SCR pack with two leads, going through two switches and two battery feeds in to the RX, one in the battery socket and the other in a spare channel in a matchbox or Y lead. I too have about the same number of flights as yourself and have never had any battery issues either. I think there’s a few good ways of doing a job right when it comes to servo or battery choice and no one person, although they may think they have, has the only successful set-up. Some use regulators, some use two battery packs, some use one and some even use three! and some favour opto isolators. Personally I like to keep things simple and it has always worked for me.
Jason
10-22-2006 | 08:31 AM
#22
RE: Super Balsa Bandit Servo's
Minch since you are investing a fair bit of hard earned in a nice airplane have you considered going the Weatronic route? I have had one in my 339 for a year now, it negates power boxes and matchboxes, I have been using 2500 lipos and have had good results. I now have a Dual in my Ultra Bandit and because the larger airframe permits it I have one 2500 #2 battery and a huge 5000 as #1 flew the whole weekend at Coningsby on one charge! True its a diffent case but the Ultra has 8611s on all control surfaces, see you at Abingdon?
m
m
