CARBUNCLE

I've heard that some jetcat titan motors have had some problems staying in "proper operating condition" and spend to much time going back and forth to the service shop for internal repairs, any truth to that titan owners? and how do the merlin 160s compare as far as reliability and service turn around? merlin owners plz chime in.. should I get a titan or a merlin? I assume there are more titans flying than merlins so I'll take that in consideration..

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Good question, I hope you get some data. I just put a Titan in an AD F-16 that I built for a friend and I can say it started and performed on the first two flights just like a Jetcat should. It also has quite a bit more blow than a P-120. I also have a friend who put a Merlin in his Euro. The Merlin seems to run OK and pushes the Euro with authority.

I'd like to see some data on the thrust of the Merlin vs. the Titan as well. On paper, the Merlin has 3 or more pounds of thrust. I can say that I like the way the Titan starts and sounds better than the Merlin. The Titan starts very smoothly and has a very nice throaty roar in the air. The Merlin seems to start in fits and sputters and has a bit if a high pitched whistle in its sound that I find somewhat annoying - but if it has a bunch more thrust and is more reliable, I'd live with it...

Bob

grbaker

My Feedback: (29)

I don't have a lot of time on my Titan or my Merlin 160 mkII, so I can't speak for long term reliablity. You really can't go wrong with either one.

I have flown both in my Eurosport. I prefer the Merlin in the Eurosport, hands down. Faster acceleration and a lot more power, more than 3 pounds (I'd guess double that, but only a guess). I fly off of grass and takeoffs are night and day different between the 2 motors. It made the airframe come alive. I get more comments about how the ES performs now than I ever did with the Titan installed. Fuel consumption seems actually a little better with the Merlin also.

I had one operator induced problem with the Merlin and Todd had it back to me in a week and a half from the time I dropped it off at FedEx. That's as good or better than the turnaround I've received from JetCat USA. My Merlin starts as smooth as any JetCat I have owned and actually smoother than my P120 that just came back from JetCat USA.

I still have my Titan and will be installing it in my YA F-15, if I ever get it finished.

If I was in the market for another turbine, I would not hesitate to order another Merlin from Todd.

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

better yet get a Jet Central Rhino ... fastest throttle response, more thrust than the Titan ( way more ! ) and best of all, a life time warranty .... I have a ton of flights on mine, and have abused it every way possible, rat at full throttle most of the time, lots of Gs, and getting thrown around a lot ... best engine i have ever ran in this class of motor. Getting anything else would just be a waste. s for reliability, just look at the stats from some of the big jet rallies ... Jet Central engines just keep ticking, as others keep flaming out left and right ... i really wish JetCentral would also make a bigger 45 - 50 lbs class engine too ... seems like they have all the other bases well covered....


Voy

normt

I have been running 2 Merlins for the last 12 months. both run great. I do not have any trouble on start up , starts are very smooth. The Merlin is a genuine 17kg thrust turbine (37.5 lbs) with a mass flow of air at about 380grams p/sec. Max 3 sec from idle to full power and the same coming down. I have had no experience with the Titan but i believe the Thrust is about 33 pounds with about 350 grams p/sec mass flow and a higher fuel consumption.

Bottom line is more bang for less bucks with great reliability, and reliability is the key.

Norm T

bevar

My Feedback: (27)

Get a Super Eagle or a Rhino. With Jet Central's new lifetime warranty, why choose anything else?

Beave

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

Are you sure that it's Titans that you hard some bad reports about, and not their P160 predecessor ? I know that I've heard a few people refer to a Titan as a P160, so obviously there is some room for confusion there.

The P160 did have a number of probems (been there, done that), but I've not yet heard of a single problem like that with the Titan - and a LOT of the guys I fly with have put literally hundreds of flights on their Titans already.

As for the Merlin - never seen it, so I can't comment. I believe Todd from Dreamworks sells BOTH of the engines you are enquiring about though, so you should give him a call and get his input. Since he sells both, you don't need to worry about him just giving you some spiel to try to convince you to buy 'his' brand rather than someone else's.

CARBUNCLE

I had a friend with a super eagle, it was in for service more than it was in the air..[&o] but that was before Eric came on.. I'm sure they are much better now..

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

yea, Titans unfortunately .. i have seen some not run right from the start and just end up repeatedly back in for repair .. others i have seen run hot, and some i have heard (first hand account ) have literally blown apart .. its been a problem engine from the start back as a p160, and now as a Titan .. asides these problems, it has a low thrust output, and a miserable spool time ... I would personally feel more comfortable cranking a p120 up to a 33 lbs thrust setting rather than running a Titan ( I really do like my p120s .... besides their slow spool time, they have been great so far ..., as have P80s .. I can't say much about my p180 and 200 as i have not ran these extensively yet .. )


Voy

JetflyerJ

My Feedback: (67)

I have 3 Titans and been flying them for 2 yrs flawlessly.

Helijet

Interesting comments Mr. Wojtek...are you sponsored or getting deals by Artes? I have noticed you have attacked JetCat a lot lately.

I am a dealer for JetCat - that is fact... but I have yet to have one single Titan give any problems for customers ( one of them puts on between 150 - 200 flights per YEAR ). My personal engine has lots of time, doesn't run hot, accelerates quickly and smoothly. Please give me some actual numbers. My customers and I would be interested in hearing about it.

Sincerely
Dean Wichmann
www.helijet.ca
www.pstna.com

JoelP

My Feedback: (20)

I also would like to know if there are any problems with the Titan. I'm getting ready to purchase another turbine for a Tam's F-18...the last thing I need to worry about, and so far I haven't with my 2 P-120's, is an engine that's realiability is in question. You can pm me if you wish.

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

i am not a dealer or rep for anyone. I use what i feel is best for me, and i pass my experiences on. There is a difference with "attacks" and a what is conveying on truthful information .... i think you got the attack thing all wrong, and the wrong way around ... When i first bought a JetCentral engine, it i was barraged by a flurry of negativity and "attacks" from many jet cat reps and cronies... I’m not even going to go into that now here ... but it left a sour taste in my mouth for sure ... I can point to many right outright lies made by JetCat reps about their competitors ... i don't have a bone to grind .. hey, i own around 10 JetCat engines currently .. with the bigger engines i was concerned ( from a user perspective ) about the static issue JetCat ECUs are having ... once JetCat actually came out with info that was being withheld/denied by the reps, and somewhat of a solution was provided ( see bvm web site for antistatic products specifically provided to address the JC static issues ) .. up until that point i was advised not to fly any of my planes with either the p200 or p180 i had ... Would i buy a JetCat motor now ?? yea .. i like the hp5 and hp4t heli units ( the 2 stage units have had problems, like the turboprop drive that failed apart at Superman on the BVM plane, so i would wait to see on those ) .. the p60 through the Titan .. i think competitors have every engine in the spectrum beat there ... 45lbs and up ? yea, i'd think of buying another one, but then again with the static issues, i might give AMT NL a try ...

actual numbers ?? my Rhino puts out OVER 36 lbs thrust. It spools from idle to full in around 3 seconds .. from 1/4 to full almost instantly ... i don't have to worry about repairs EVER ( as long as I don’t crash ) ... I just don't see how you could be using anything else ... I’m just having a lot of fun with it … especially the accelerating vertical climb outs from slow on-the-verge-of-stall passes … straight up and out of sight !

Titan with quick acceleration ? I guess 8 - 10 seconds is not that bad for some styles of flying ... As for reliability I have seen and heard of many failing or not running right .. one friend had one not run right NIB .. was charged for repairs , and engine still had same problems .. back it went .. another Titan was running hot and flaming out, the engine was diagnosed as having a minor rub and the user was advised to run double the oil mix in his fuel until the problem went away .. I’s a known fact that the p160 was a problematic engine from the start, the Titan is pretty much the same engine but just turned down …

BluFox

My Feedback: (10)

Carbuncle:

Just a short note from me regarding "your friend" who has an Eagle which spent more time in the service center than in the air. I am scratching my head trying to figure out who this may be. Please know I simply will not have any customer unhappy. I ask that you provide in this forum, who this person is. I will contact him and if as you say, he has had all these service issues, I will verify, check with our service department using the serial number of his Eagle to determine the number of times we have serviced it. If it is a problem Eagle, then I will replace it absolutely free. Again, I simply will not have any customer unhappy. . .not on my watch!

As for which turbine to select? That must be your choice. The Merlin and Rhino are for all intents and purpose, "mirror twins." If the turbine were concealed in the airframe, then started you could not tell them apart. Performance in all parameters virtually mirrored as well. Our Lifetime Warranty is a trend setter and we (all of the Jet Central staff) are focused on its success!

Thanks for reading,
Eric Clapp
Jet Central Artes Turbines
Lifetime Warranty
941.468.1246 anytime

Vincent

My Feedback: (61)

I have two Titans for over a year now and they have been good performers with total reliability. I have no experience with the Merlin but have a club member friend with an Eagle and its been a problem from day one.

V..

BluFox

My Feedback: (10)

Vincent:

Please see my post to CARBUNCLE. The same applies. We do have one customer in the Arizona area who we hear from occasionally and have offered to assist him each time he has contacted us. However, this customer does not follow through with sending his turbine to me. I cannot help. . .if we have a non-responding customer. Please advise through this post who your friend/club member is and I will do whatever I can to accomodate this owner to his total satisfaction.

Best regards,
Eric Clapp
Jet Central Artes Turbines
Lifetime Warranty
941.468.1246 Any time!

Vincent

My Feedback: (61)

Eric,
He is P38J here on RCU but does not comment on his Eagle problems here. I have seen them at the field and even with FREE service i would not be comfortable with an Artes product. Not worth losing a jet over some lifetime service.

V..

lov2flyrc

My Feedback: (24)

Vin,
Since I am a vendor for all three engines in question here, I would like to hear what has provoked this statement:
"I have seen them at the field and even with FREE service i would not be comfortable with an Artes product."

Just what exactly have you seen? Eagle has proven on my end to be a fairly reliable engine with excellent performance. Just curious what your experiences have been?
Todd

mick15

You guys don't know how fortunate you are having jetcat usa to deal with, here in europe we have to deal with the factory (germany). back in june i sent them a p160 with fod, my fault, i think about a month later it came back, first flight the shaft snapped off at the back! so back it went and now i have just received it, middle of november flying season over. I will not be buying any more jetcats.

M



graupner booster???

BluFox

My Feedback: (10)

Vincent:

Thank you for the information. If you can. please contact P38J and have him call me or email me as soon as possible, I as previously posted, will take care of any problems.
As far as loosing a jet because of a turbine issue, as you will readily admit, this happens with every manufacturer. . .and I do mean every. I have attended event after event this passed year and observed everything from flameouts with and without smoke trail to total turbine failures in flight. No manufacturer has a clean slate when it comes to problems. However we are the only manufacturer who has come to the table with total confidence in our product. . .the result is our industry leading "Lifetime Warranty." It is simply this; "Our customers want service they expect. . .with results they want" and that is precisely what we give them. Peace of mind knowing what to expect in advance if and when there is a problem.

Best regards,
Eric Clapp
Jet Central Artes Turbines
Lifetime Warranty

pilott34

I had an Eagle and it flew great!! Excellent power, less than half the spool up time than my P120. I ended up selling my plane and buying a bobcat. Now I have a Falcon and I am having nothing but pure enjoyment.

"Not worth losing a jet over some lifetime service." you say Vin? How about losing your plane to spool up time while trying to do a go around? BTW, I have had 2 jetcats. One never started brand new out of the box...the second one the bearings went out after 12 starts total. I had to pay for the bearing replacement because it had sat on my workbench for a year and never been started so jetcats response was that it was out of warranty. I will tell you that you will not get this response from Jet Central, there is no doubt in my mind that I would have had a new engine from Artes...free of charge.

Each manufacturer has their problems, nothing is 100%. That being said, why not purchase the engine that has less spool up time and more power?

Robrow

Right now in the UK with the current $/GBP exchange rates the latest generation Jet Central engine represent exceptional value from GBP1295 for the Super Bee through to GBP1950 for the Rhino and add to this the value of a lifetime warranty !!

Rob.

Shok

My Feedback: (28)

Im sticking to Artes for my next few purchases, they have proved themselves to be awesome motors.

Rhino will be next.

pilott34

So if it is that clear to you...why did you create this thread? Sounds to me like you already had your mind made up...

CARBUNCLE

The reason I started the thread is so I could decide between a titan or a merlin and get feedback for just those 2.. I made the statement about the eagle in reply to wojtek's referal.. My friend has since sold the eagle and I'm not giving his name out.. Think I'm going with the merlin due to the pm's I've got from this thread, thnx guys.. Sorry Eric, didn't mean to cause a stink, your service and lifetime warranty is great, and as we see there are many happy artes customers.. So now lets hear some more about those merlins.