ravill

My Feedback: (11)

I post this with a heavy heart. As much as I've had some "run ins" with the moderators, I must commend them for keeping the "Safety matters" sticky well with in view of all to see.

Below, see the crash of my SM F-15. I made a mistake. I can admit it and I'd like to share what I've learned, here on RCU. If I can help avoid one crash with ANY potential for damage, I'll be very grateful.

I took off with full flaps. As most any F-15 pilot would know, flaps are hardly needed. I did not notice I had flaps deployed until I was taking off. For the life of me, I do not know why I did not pre flight this. I was apprehinsive to hit my flap switch as I was blasting down the runway. I did hit the switch after rotation putting the flaps into their "half" setting. After much review, I have determined that some flight surface failed on me making a silouhette save very unlikely.

Attached are some pics of my preflight check list that I carry with me when ever I fly now. Notice #16. I make it a point to read over EVERY point BEFORE take off. It takes not more than 10 sec. to review this list and I'd like to share it with you. Thank you for looking and for your constructive criticism.

Raf

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...34717794&hl=en


PS. F.E.A.R stands for Flaps, Elevator, Aileron and Rudder! Somewhat scary mnemonic but it helps me remember!

turbinelover

ravill,

Sorry man, it looked like a nice F-15[&o][&o][&o]

Regards,
Dan Crawford

Ali

My Feedback: (5)

Sorry for the crash Ravill. That looked like loss of a single elevator control to me ( Either servo failure, linkage let go, or even rotation pin coming out of the stab) We lost a F-18 here in the Uk same way. Trimming flight about 2 mins in and it started rolling in. I nearly got it back but in the end it crashed ( But no burn luckily)
Regards Al

Doctor J.

Ravill,
Sorry about your loss, but thank you very much for sharing you experience and knowledge. No matter how long you have been doing anything we all make mistakes. Your check-list is a great idea. Thanks!

John Ligons
AMT USA, LLC.

bevar

My Feedback: (27)

Looks like you lost an elevator. If you had a flap lock up, it would have just rolled, but prior to impact, it looks like you also had a big pitch change introduced to the profile. Sorry to see what happened...I feel for you.

On another note, I always slow down my flap deployment/retraction with function 24 to about 10 degrees per second. With out jets, you can induce a stall if the flaps "bang" up or down at full speed. Also, in the off chance you do get an flap asymmetry problem, you can correct it and possibly save the jet if they are deploying "scale" instead of at full speed.

Just a thought.

Beave

BlackSheep-1

Sorry about your loss, that sucks! At what time did you raise the flaps completely, or did you? Having a servo on each flap can cause a roll if you either raise or lower them and one fails. Just curious.

erbroens

Sorry about your crash.. and another possible cause of it is if you forgot to plug one of the flaps extensions while assembling the wings.

A good thing of our hobby unlike full size aviation is that we are allowed to survive and learn a lot.. and all the bad feelings are gone after
the next flight on a new plane.

Enrique

afterburner

My Feedback: (18)

Raf,
Sorry for your loss.

Marty

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

I suffered an asymmetrical flap condition in my DV8R when a linkage came off one of the flaps. It was quite startling and it rolled almost inverted (at quite a low altitude [X(] ), but I was able to hold it together with oposite aileron until I figured out the problem and retracted the flaps.

From looking at the video, I seriously doubt that this was caused by a flap problem. Like Beave said, you had a large pitch excursion along with the roll that suggests to me a stabilator problem - blown linkage or servo gear strip, etc.

Bob

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

While a slowed deployment can help as you indicate, a slowed retraction does exactly the opposite and decreases your chance of survival in an asymmetric condition. It's for that exact reason that I never use flap-slow on any radio that won't allow separate timing for up & down control.

Gordon

BlackSheep-1

It looked like a pull up on the elevator after it went inverted. It is hard to see with the sun orientation like he said and that could have been a contributing factor. I was just curious as to when he raised his flaps completely, if it was at the exact time that it started to roll, then that would give the answer. When you flip a switch and something goes wrong, flip it back!

ghost_rider

My Feedback: (20)

Sorry to hear about your F-15 bud. Just know that the downfall of a man is never the end of his life.

icepilot

Sorry about your loss, man....

As I have only 2 flights on my new SM F-15 I am very interested to hear if you have found out anything from examining the wreck - stripped servo, linkage destroyed or any other clue to the reason for the crash.

What kind of radio/servos did you use?

Tor/Norway

amitt

very sorry about your loss man. what servos and radio gear did you use off hand?
regards
amitt

DavidQ

My Feedback: (12)

Raf,
I know exactly how you feel. Same thing happened to me 2 months ago. I was in a turn and the F15 nosed over and went in just like your, the crash was a total write off!
David

bevar

My Feedback: (27)

Gordon,

Either way is technique and neither one is wrong. You do it your way and I shall do it mine. Using your logic, full scale aircraft would not deploy or retract slow, but I know that they do, and exactly for the reasons of smooth transition and asymmetry/skew issues.

Beave

jeteye

Ravill, I watched it many times. It looks as if you lost the left evelator for some reason. I don't think you made a mistake at all.

The General

Falcon 64

I know how you feel..

And I`m sorry for your loss..
Not knowing why is the worst part of it, it always is, no matter the loss..

I really hope you finally get the answer to it. Then someone can learn from what happened to you, and in this way enjoy their Eagle, as they have excuded this incident to happen to them....

Every model has a RIP tag attached. It`s just a matter of time.... []
To enlarge this period for everyone, it`s important for all of us to chare our experiences.

Like Ghost Rider said: The fall down of a man, can be his strength.. (Or somthing like that..)
Don`t give up! [>:]

ravill

My Feedback: (11)

To clarify,

I remember only hitting one click of flap when she leveled out. This was the fourth flight of the day. I don't think a flap connection came loose, but its possible. I don't know why I didn't push my flap switch all the way up to make sure I was full up. I suppose I don't like to fiddle too much with the switches/nobs too much while I'm in the air. [&:]


There was nothing left of the airplane. All I had was my CO2 extinguisher which was unable to put out the flame. We ran over and I tried to kick the turbine out of the fireball while blasting it with CO2.[:'(] Bob sent it back to me saying he couldn't do anything to fix it! Bummer huh??

I was using a futaba 9C, HiTec 5955 in the elevators, and Hitec 5645 in the flaps (I know, I know...now I do...[]), JR 3301 in the ailerons.

Maybe an elevator gave out causing the roll? Who knows, but I should not take off with any airplane, unless I know what every surface is doing. This was the most basic lesson I learned. I put that on a check list so that I wouldn't forget.

Thanks for the moral boost everyone!

I'm flying more than ever now!!

Raf

AFTERBURNER1

My Feedback: (80)

No bueno bro!!!

thinwing

YIKES RAF..........THAT HAS GOT TO BUM YOU OUT........THANK BUDDA YOU WERENT IN IT...........I WATCHED VIDEO SEV TIMES........YOU SAY FLAP RETRACT ON TAKEOFF........OK SO FAR SO GOOD BUT YOUR DOWNWIND TURN LOOKS NORMAL.........THAN THE PITCH CHANGE........ROLL TO INVERT ALL OF WHICH I ASSUME WERE UNCOMMANDED......THEN STRAIGHT IN..........BOOM.........IM SO SORRY........MY F15 SERIOUSLY DAMAGED ON 2ND MAIDEN.....WE ARE FLYING IN 10 KT XWINDS........THE ELEVATOR /STRUCTER FAILURE COMES TO MY MIND..........BUT......WHO KNOWS........OH GOT YOUR PM ABOUT DESFURANE..........THANKYOU.........BUT US IMPLANTOLOGISTS...DEPEND ON YOU GAS PASSERS TO BE UP ON LASTEST TECHS.........WE WOULDNT EXPECT YOU TO KNOW DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 5X8 MM STRAUMAN IMPLANT PLACEMENT VRS IPD MINI.........BUT IM AN OLD DOC......FLY LOW RAF....YOU HAVE THE PASSION!!!!!!!!!!!SINC KPC

Jim Cattanach

Hey Raf. Sorry to hear of your loss. No use thinking, if only. We all learn from our experiences. Thats life. You will rise from the ashes, like the Phoenix. I think you can get one from Aviation design.

Regards

Jim

BlackSheep-1

That is precisely when she went into a roll, you then had one flap at full down and the other at half. Swept wing aircraft react more to asymmetrical configurations than straight wing aircraft. I had a flap servo fail, and it will happen for no reason at all at any time. I dumped the flaps and my plane went into a roll but I quickly returned the switch to its original position. In your case one servo appears to have stopped working in the down position, as soon as you raised the flaps one click it went into a roll. Once inverted the flaps will push the nose down. I doubt it was stab failure, this is good news for others that have this plane. Analyzing crashes has immense benefits, we can all learn a lot from them. I know some look at it in a very negative way for some reason and want to just sweep it under the carpet. For what it's worth, I've learned from your experience and I thank you for that, I will use a version of your pre-flight notes also. I'm planning on entering the turbine world with a JL F-18, and I'm reading everything I can to ensure that I am a success!

George

My Feedback: (57)

Ravill, first off, let me say sorry.

Here is another possibility if you have not thought of it and I have not seen it mentioned yet, but I know it can happen b/c it happened to me years ago and your crash looks VERY familiar to when it happened to me.

I don't know if it would affect the F-15 as it did my F-18, but many years ago (when I was very new to jets) I had a taileron Y/A F-18 DF. I had just taken off w/flaps and had forgotten to retract them and in my inexperience I had inadvertently went to 1/2 instead of up. At this point there was still no problem and all was well. It wasn't until my speed increased that the tailerons were "blanked" out and the plane did the same exact thing as yours. It was like a total loss of control.

Like I said earlier, I'm not sure if the F-15 would be affected in the same way, but I mention only b/c of the similarities and it could have happened after you turned downwind and started picking up speed.

Food for thought!

George

basimpsn

My Feedback: (5)

There's your problem. My second F-15 all most went in due to this servo setup on the ailerons [X(] .I took off with first posi-flap after retracting gear and flaps to level flight the same thing happen, It went inverted immediately i give it down elevator to fly inverted because of the jet location . My spotter almost cut the power when I push full power and down elev causing the jet to do a inverted loop back to us flying inverted. I roll back to level flight and kept fighting ail for landing. Touch down was perfect but the left aileron servo was stripp[:@]. Ok just a bad servo so we replace it with a brand new(3301jr) the same day and went up again. The same thing happen again manage to land the jet now the right (3301jr)servo stripp. I say thats it and sold the jet to my friend.