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Is anyone 100%, positively sold on XPS in jets? Must go 2.4.

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Old 07-13-2007, 10:37 AM
  #26  
1Eye
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Default RE: Is anyone 100%, positively sold on XPS in jets? Must go 2.4.

Uhhh, I haven't made the plunge yet: I don't think the short stubby antenna will allow me to get an accurate wind indicator [from my tell tale ribbon] ... I need the longer antenna.
Old 07-13-2007, 10:46 AM
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Default RE: Is anyone 100%, positively sold on XPS in jets? Must go 2.4.

Here is my experience. Worked good for me until it did not. Best wishes.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_57...key_XPS/tm.htm

joe
Old 07-13-2007, 01:38 PM
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David Searles
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Default RE: Is anyone 100%, positively sold on XPS in jets? Must go 2.4.

Jim,

I am trying to bind the transmitter to receiver on my new JR 10 ch XPS system. However the transmitter module will not go into the "orange" state necessary to complete the binding. I placed this question on your tech support email two days ago but haven't got an answer. I need to get this completed so I can finish my install.

David Searles
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Old 07-13-2007, 02:16 PM
  #29  
Gordito Volador
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Default RE: Is anyone 100%, positively sold on XPS in jets? Must go 2.4.


ORIGINAL: LIGHTEMUP

Jim,

I am trying to bind the transmitter to receiver on my new JR 10 ch XPS system. However the transmitter module will not go into the "orange" state necessary to complete the binding. I placed this question on your tech support email two days ago but haven't got an answer. I need to get this completed so I can finish my install.

David Searles
Team JetCentral
David,

It's kind of nice to get a rep on the phone isn't it? This is my biggest holdup on going XPS.

Bill
Old 07-13-2007, 05:12 PM
  #30  
Ron Stahl
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Default RE: Is anyone 100%, positively sold on XPS in jets? Must go 2.4.

Gentlemen,
First off; Yes I curentlly fly with JR equipment and Spektrum 7DX tx and modules. I started flying in the 60's with Kraft equpiment and flew Futaba equipment for over 25 years before buying the 10x system I have now for my turbine planes. At work I have used Futaba equipment for over 20 years day in and out so I have no real bias towards brands that work reliablly, thats my issue with XPS I have seen 4 systems in use and 3 guys have problems. George is one of the unhappy customers and I was present when his Bobcat went into failsafe as he describes on another post , Bruce Hansen is not only in my club but also works parrt time at the same Defence contractor that I do and I bought him the XPS system at Toledo because he could not attend. Jim while you may percive him as a happy customer; I do not. Bruce has had 3 unexplained flameouts in his turbine and turboprop planes while using the XPS system and once he reinstalled the Jr RF system no more flameouts. From what I have seen from people that have used the XPS system locally I will stay with Spektrum and I can say that I now have over 350 flights personally and over a thousand hours at work using that system and have yet to have a problem. Yes the operator has a great effect on how system performs and everyones experience will be differant, I just am confident in the RF link that Spektrum has over XPS at this time that could change but I will not be the test subject with any of my turbine planes.
Old 07-13-2007, 05:46 PM
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Default RE: Is anyone 100%, positively sold on XPS in jets? Must go 2.4.

Ron,
Thanks for the details.
Old 07-14-2007, 06:35 PM
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Default RE: Is anyone 100%, positively sold on XPS in jets? Must go 2.4.

We have chatted with Bruce via phone on numerous occassions and have never once was told of any flameouts in his turbines. We will contact him and have a chat.
Old 07-15-2007, 01:31 AM
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justinh
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Default RE: Is anyone 100%, positively sold on XPS in jets? Must go 2.4.

I haven't installed XPS in my jet yet, but I have around 150 flights on my bobcat 50 pusher plane. I have total confidence in it and the only reason its not in my Jet is because i'd rather have the telemetry unit and the RX that is field upgradeable so i'm waiting for that.
Old 07-18-2007, 03:13 PM
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Default RE: Is anyone 100%, positively sold on XPS in jets? Must go 2.4.

We had a nice chat with Bruce Hanson today. He called to say that his system is working great. He has had no flameouts or any problems. When we mentioned this thread, he was a little shocked and asked that we provide him with a link to it via email so that he could respond himself.
Old 07-18-2007, 04:28 PM
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BH Hanson
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Default RE: Is anyone 100%, positively sold on XPS in jets? Must go 2.4.

I did speak with Scott today and told him my system was working great, I had also mentioned to Ron Stahl That I had a slow servo movement on a flight with one of my turbines, after speaking to scott about the problem I encountered, he told me to move my antena line, which I did, I HAVE NOT HAD ANY TROUBLE SINCE... I flew the wheels off my Reaction with the System at Capital Jet Rally last weekend... As far as I know, people have had trouble with all of the 2.4 stuff.. There is nothing perfect, There's just hope....

BH Hanson...
Old 07-18-2007, 04:56 PM
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Ron Stahl
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Default RE: Is anyone 100%, positively sold on XPS in jets? Must go 2.4.

I stand corrected by Bruce Hanson on this matter.
Old 07-19-2007, 05:33 AM
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Default RE: Is anyone 100%, positively sold on XPS in jets? Must go 2.4.

I was having flame out proplems with my turbo-prop, as Ron had Stated, but come to find out last week, it was a partial blade missing on the secondary turbine wheel and not the radio that caused the problem... It was a confusing problem for a time, and the radio was changed....


BH Hanson
Old 07-19-2007, 06:20 PM
  #38  
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Default RE: Is anyone 100%, positively sold on XPS in jets? Must go 2.4.


ORIGINAL: C2_Hobbies

Here is a good link for you that addresses your "specific question".

[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5768323/anchors_5768323/mpage_1/key_xps/anchor/tm.htm#5768323]XPS turned ugly[/link]
And immediately later to go to read this: [link=http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=715345]I think I found the problem![/link]
Best Regards
Old 07-19-2007, 06:23 PM
  #39  
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Default RE: Is anyone 100%, positively sold on XPS in jets? Must go 2.4.

Sal,

Those are two different people. Funny how the stories are almost identical.......except for the outcome.
Old 07-19-2007, 06:35 PM
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Default RE: Is anyone 100%, positively sold on XPS in jets? Must go 2.4.

OK, but as it is correct to tell the negative experiences it is also correct to tell those positive...
Regards
Old 07-19-2007, 07:02 PM
  #41  
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Default RE: Is anyone 100%, positively sold on XPS in jets? Must go 2.4.

I must agree with you Sal! Since I took out the XPS and went back to Futaba PCM over 110 flights perfectly connected rock solid radio link. The fact that no one has gotten hurt is positive.. The list goes on. It might work for you.

Joe
Old 07-19-2007, 08:44 PM
  #42  
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Default RE: Is anyone 100%, positively sold on XPS in jets? Must go 2.4.

C2,

In all honesty I don't believe Joe and I suffered the exact same scenario. Joe experienced a 'lockout', I got several uncommanded movement (mostly trying to roll) but I never lost control so to speak.

I'm thankful that nobody got hurt and both of us are still flying a GREAT airframe (Joe I'm catching up to you on the flight counter...I'm almost at 90 flights so far).

Sincerely,

Andre.
Old 07-20-2007, 12:57 AM
  #43  
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Default RE: Is anyone 100%, positively sold on XPS in jets? Must go 2.4.

If you read Joe's report, you will see that he did not have an actual lock out. He shut the turbine down, he pulled the gear up, and he landed the plane on it's belly. That same airframe is still flying (unless Joe replaced it from being scratched during the landing).
Old 07-20-2007, 08:38 AM
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Default RE: Is anyone 100%, positively sold on XPS in jets? Must go 2.4.

Fly safe!
Old 07-20-2007, 03:19 PM
  #45  
David Searles
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Default RE: Is anyone 100%, positively sold on XPS in jets? Must go 2.4.

Joe,

I will be at the Basin tomorrow with my tried and true EuroSport with an XPS JR 10ch installed. I did the range check here at home and got over 300' and everything was still working. I've got the receiver installed up top in the back of the canopy away from everything. We'll see how it goes. I'll post pics of the install a little later.

David S
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Old 07-21-2007, 03:31 AM
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Default RE: Is anyone 100%, positively sold on XPS in jets? Must go 2.4.

Thanks to everyone for the great replies.

Folks seem to being have good success with XPS. Looking through the various threads and forums it seems like any problems encountered invariably turn out to be non-XPS related.

Old 07-21-2007, 03:13 PM
  #47  
David Searles
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Default RE: Is anyone 100%, positively sold on XPS in jets? Must go 2.4.

The following is my experience and MY OPINION ONLY:

Based on previous reports of pilots who have used the XPS system at Apollo Field Sepulveda Basin, CA, and now my own direct experience, use of this system at this field is an ABSOLUTE NO GO!!

This install was range checked, at my home with the turbine running, I stopped walking away from it in excess of 300' with complete control. Range checked at the field for over 200' complete control. I began my first flight with a plan of keeping the plane in relatively close and at reduced throttle settings to make sure everything worked. After going thru initial retrimming of the aircraft I flew several circuits at no more than 75% throttle and relatively close in for normal turbine flight. Everything seemed rock solid. I had one minor slow response on the last circuit prior to setting up for landing, but it was so minor it could have just been the plane still needing a little more trim set.

Landing was perfect, so I refueled, recharged and began flight two with the intent of extending the flight envelope a little farther outbound and depth away. I took off, turned outbound and then downwind climbing with the turbine at full throttle, allowing it to pick up some speed. I let it proceed a little further downwind this time before beginning the base turn to upwind. At the point I wanted to make my base turn to upwind I felt no response to input. Then the landing gear extended, which was my indication that the receiver was in failsafe. It continued for what seemed like an eternity, and then I saw the gear retract again. I immediately put the plane into a hard bank to the left to bring it back towards the field. Just as the nose came around to approximately pointing at me, still in a bank, the gear extended again, FAILSAFE. This time the nose tucked straight down, with the belly towards me I could see the gear still extended. At about 30'-50' above ground the gear again retracted, but it was too late. The plane impacted, turbine running at idle, and a full fuel load. EVERYTHING BURNED!!!! The XPS receiver ejected from the plane on impact and appears to have no damage. Everything else, TOTAL LOSS!!

My previous experience with this receiver consists of watching Darcy Wingo fly the Hell out of it in his Flash at Buttonwillow and Phoenix, with absolutely no concerns! So I felt relatively comfortable putting it into a proven airframe and installation with well over 300 flights on it with never a glitch. I installed the receiver high above everything else in the aircraft and had freshly charged batteries which were topped off between flights. All to no avail. In the same area of the field that others had reported problems in reception with their XPS systems, I went into lockout twice, and lost my aircraft!

I have no idea what the problem is or why. I am not an electronics expert! But I will give my absolute support to the concept that this system is UNSAFE, to fly at the Apollo field location.

David Searles

Old 07-21-2007, 03:58 PM
  #48  
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Default RE: Is anyone 100%, positively sold on XPS in jets? Must go 2.4.

ORIGINAL: LIGHTEMUP

The following is my experience and MY OPINION ONLY:

Based on previous reports of pilots who have used the XPS system at Apollo Field Sepulveda Basin, CA, and now my own direct experience, use of this system at this field is an ABSOLUTE NO GO!!

This install was range checked, at my home with the turbine running, I stopped walking away from it in excess of 300' with complete control. Range checked at the field for over 200' complete control. I began my first flight with a plan of keeping the plane in relatively close and at reduced throttle settings to make sure everything worked. After going thru initial retrimming of the aircraft I flew several circuits at no more than 75% throttle and relatively close in for normal turbine flight. Everything seemed rock solid. I had one minor slow response on the last circuit prior to setting up for landing, but it was so minor it could have just been the plane still needing a little more trim set.

Landing was perfect, so I refueled, recharged and began flight two with the intent of extending the flight envelope a little farther outbound and depth away. I took off, turned outbound and then downwind climbing with the turbine at full throttle, allowing it to pick up some speed. I let it proceed a little further downwind this time before beginning the base turn to upwind. At the point I wanted to make my base turn to upwind I felt no response to input. Then the landing gear extended, which was my indication that the receiver was in failsafe. It continued for what seemed like an eternity, and then I saw the gear retract again. I immediately put the plane into a hard bank to the left to bring it back towards the field. Just as the nose came around to approximately pointing at me, still in a bank, the gear extended again, FAILSAFE. This time the nose tucked straight down, with the belly towards me I could see the gear still extended. At about 30'-50' above ground the gear again retracted, but it was too late. The plane impacted, turbine running at idle, and a full fuel load. EVERYTHING BURNED!!!! The XPS receiver ejected from the plane on impact and appears to have no damage. Everything else, TOTAL LOSS!!

My previous experience with this receiver consists of watching Darcy Wingo fly the Hell out of it in his Flash at Buttonwillow and Phoenix, with absolutely no concerns! So I felt relatively comfortable putting it into a proven airframe and installation with well over 300 flights on it with never a glitch. I installed the receiver high above everything else in the aircraft and had freshly charged batteries which were topped off between flights. All to no avail. In the same area of the field that others had reported problems in reception with their XPS systems, I went into lockout twice, and lost my aircraft!

I have no idea what the problem is or why. I am not an electronics expert! But I will give my absolute support to the concept that this system is UNSAFE, to fly at the Apollo field location.

David Searles


hi Dave,

Sorry to hear that. I know a lot of guys are flying the Spektrum there , not sure about the Futaba FASST though. Again sorry.

Why did the turbine stay running? Were the failsafes below 2 seconds?

Sorry for your loss. See you next time, I am sure you will bounce back,



Old 07-21-2007, 04:27 PM
  #49  
David Searles
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Default RE: Is anyone 100%, positively sold on XPS in jets? Must go 2.4.

Matt,

I did not change the XPS factory failsafe time settings. I set the gear extended and turbine at idle failsafe within XPS, leaving the turbine ECU failsafe to shut the turbine down. Everything happened in a lot less time than it takes to talk about it. From the time the plane went into the first failsafe and came out again, probably wasn't more than a couple seconds. From the time it went into the second failsafe to the time it hit the ground was probably not much longer.

Actually I'm speculating about the turbine being at idle when it went in. I just know that I did see the retracts go in again, which meant the plane was back in radio control just prior to impact and I had throttle pulled back to idle. The second time I lost it I just didn't think fast enough to kill the turbine, prior to impact. My thoughts were on trying to save the plane.

Since I fly 6 meter, it really wasn't imperative for me to make the change to 2.4. I've NEVER had even a glitch with ham band, but have run into a few field conflicts from time to time so I decided to give 2.4 a try. The thing that really bugs me is that I will never REALLY know, what exactly caused the problem or, if it could have been avoided! All the evidence, except for the receiver, got burned up. And considering the way the reciever range checked on the ground, how can I say there was a problem with it. I just know the receiver did go into lock out twice, evidenced by seeing the gear extend and retract twice, without my command.

I'll just stick with my 6 meter receivers and hope that everyone else switches to 2.4 and has great sucess! That'll leave me all alone on ham band

David S
Old 07-21-2007, 05:14 PM
  #50  
George
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Default RE: Is anyone 100%, positively sold on XPS in jets? Must go 2.4.

David, your experience is VERY similar to mine. The ground checks were above norms and some/most flights were good until it wasn't. Although I did not lose a plane (BTW, sorry for your loss), I feel I very easily would have lost it had I continued to use it here. My experience was that the XPS system did not work at MY field either. It may be fine at 95% of the fields, but watch out if you're flying at one of the other 5%. The system works great until it doesn't, you just don't know when that is. It gives you a false sense of security with the outstanding ground checks and good initial early flights; which we tend to fly closer to "test" the system.

Invariably, someone will post asking questions about your install, battery selection, aircraft condition, ask for pics, etc., ect. In the end it will be found that there is nothing wrong XPS and YOU did something wrong. How could you have a problem when MOST everyone else is flying the system with success?

Maybe people will take you more serious since you are considered to be in the higher echelons of the jet community. If not, I guess it will take a "bigger name" pilot to have a problem with XPS.

Again, sorry for your loss David.

George


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