Dustflyer

My Feedback: (13)

Lightemup, Goekeli and George,

Wow. First, sorry about your crashes. Second, what you are reporting does not sound good.

I must say I do not like the sound of that "it works good until it doesn't" thing.

No fun losing a jet. My Hotspot went down too but due 72mhz interference. I've got high hopes for 2.4mhz but it's starting to sound like nothing out there is really bulletproof.

GoeKeli

My Feedback: (18)

David, I'm really sorry for your loss. This is really sad news and what I was afraid of, I was at the field later and heard reports. Thank God you or no one was hurt or worst, and that we still have a field to fly at. Thanks for being honest and reporting what happened here, it could save a life. IME XPS is unsafe anywhere. Darcy flying it convinced me to try it. Worked until it didn't. I don't believe it is an isolated issue with Apollo field either. That is just my belief. Spektrum has been very good for those using it there.

Hope to see you at LAjets. Keep yer chin up buddy I've had bad days too. I really liked that plane and the scheme you had on it.

Joe Kelley

Dave Presta

My Feedback: (3)

Darcy had troubles with his system at California Jets to the point of removing it from his aircraft.
I will save you the "I told you so" and just say that I am sorry for your loss.
One question that I have is how you range check this system? With the Spektrum, you press the bind button in the back of the module to reduce the power output during range check. Obviously if you do a range check with this system without reducing the range a bit (seeing that the antenna is fixed) you will not be getting a proper range check like we do on 72mhz by collapsing the antenna.

Once again I'm sorry bud,
Dave

JimDrew

My Feedback: (16)

Huh? No he didn't. Darcy burned more than 20 gallons of fuel and got the Top Gun award flying our system.

Dave, we will contact you to get more details about your crash.

martinan

David,

So sorry to hear of your crash.

David Searles

My Feedback: (49)

Strawdog,[:@]

The systems range check identically.

As for Darcy's problems, they were not related to the XPS but to another electronic item he had installed, which I also had had the same problem with the same item previously. I told him to take that piece of equipment out of his aircraft, he did, no more problem.

Yes, you did tell me so, yes, I heard the same from others. I also remember years ago when Kraft was "THE RADIO" and everybody told me FUTABA was a POS Japanese import.

Growing pains are a part of the hobby. If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen!

I'LL BE BACK!!!

David S

Woketman

My Feedback: (6)

Lightem, can you please give us specific details about "another electronic item" that Darcy had installed? Like what it was, where it was, and why it was causing him (and you) an issue? Also, any additional details would also be helpful.

Thanks.

Dave Presta

My Feedback: (3)

Uh, yeah he did. He eventually put it back in after you guy's showed up...but he still had problems. He did eventually have a very successful weekend, but I keep hearing people say how "FLAWLESS" the system worked for Darcy, and I don't think that is clearly the case. I am not a spokesman for any radio system, so I do hope that the problems are found with the XPS and pilots will be able to fly this system successfully. Everyone has their own opinion, I would never let anything (2.4) other then Spektrum guide my planes.....but I do hope that this system will be available as a viable option.

Dave, again Sorry for your loss.....I will call you next week.

JimDrew

My Feedback: (16)

Darcy had a problem with his setup that he thought might the radio system so he re-installed his 72Mhz system and almost didn't get his plane back! It kepyt flying and flying with no response and finally was able to get it turned around and landed it. We showed up and checked out everything and found that his flight batteries were dangerously low due to having 14 flights on them previously without charging them. A 1.5 amp load showed the output from the Fromeco to be a little over 3 volts! What was happening with our system is the receiver was rebooting due to the low voltage condition and controls became sluggish. We re-installed our system, charged the batteries, and the rest is history! The system did work flawlessly. The issue was the power source, which is most often the case in all electronics related crashes (no matter what radio is being used).

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

Sounds like the same as many people have been encountering with the Spektrum, except that the 2 second reboot there causes more than just sluggish response.

Interesting that Darcy saw problems with 72 Mhz too, since in most reported cases that I've heard of so far, the 72 Mhz system doesn't tend to show up the low voltage issues nearly as much (since it doesn't do a reboot !) - which seems to be why many people blame the 2.4G system rather than their power supply when their "drop-in replacement" approach doesn't work.

Gordon

Terry Holston

My Feedback: (1)

72mh with low batteries = loss of range, no reboot.

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

Or just "soft" servo response - which is why the low-power condition can exist on 72 Mhz without the pilot even realizing it.

AFTERBURNER1

My Feedback: (80)

[:@] Sorry to hear the news Dave...

DF

Dustflyer

My Feedback: (13)

I think we all unfortunately saw 2.4mhz as the miracle solution to all our problems.

The reality is people are losing airplanes. Not beginners but modelers who charge their batteries, do proper installs (please see pix of "Lightemup's" XPS rx in the canopy), and obviously know how to fly.

2.4 is new. Like anything new there are problems not fully understood or worked out. Problems yet to be discovered. You have perfect range checks, dozens of perfect flights then bam! The plane goes in for no explanation.

"It works great until it doesn't." I can't get that phrase out of my mind. I wonder why Futaba is taking so long to jump in. Maybe they are discovering some things that need to be addressed.

Maybe I should stick with my 72mhz Futaba 9Z and simply change flying fields.

JimDrew

My Feedback: (16)

We are going to come out to the basin and fly ourselves, and bring out test equipment. The problem could be something as simple as one of the NEXRAD radar systems sitting within 10 miles of where this field is located. We have been able to demonstrate that any 2.4GHZ device is completely locked out when passing through the beam generated by one of these systems. I have no idea where this field is located. Does someone have GPS location data for it?

David Searles

My Feedback: (49)

Jim,

Longitude 118.48191; Latitude 34.17543

David

Edgar Perez

My Feedback: (13)

I don't think 2.4Ghz is ready for prime time. Maybe one year from now...

But that's all 2.4, Spectrum, XPS or Futaba.

They will be courageous people who will be the test vehicle until the technology mature enough. For them my sincere appreciation as without them the technology can' move forward.[sm=thumbup.gif]
In the meantime, we will just have to entertain those who will take every single instance as defining the whole issue, those with commercial interest and those with no commercial interest, but biased for one brand or another

Sorry for your loss.

BTW, today I flew my Eurosport in 72 Mhz (9C/149DP). Third flight forgot to re-attach my whip (was doing some checkup just before). Flew most of the flight, including some very far away and high passes, without the whip, until I realized it. I feel I just bough a new plane

Dustflyer

My Feedback: (13)

Jim Drew and David,

I looked up those coordinates on Google Earth and noticed the field is very closely aligned with the runway at Van Nuys Airport. If I am not mistaken there is a fair amount of corporate jet traffic there.

I know for a fact that aircraft communication and navigation radios do not operate anywhere near 2.4ghz. What I don't know is what frequency transponders, radar (also known as radio) altimeters, or airborne radar sets operate on; not to mention ATC radars, especially newer "high update" ground surveillance radar or doppler weather radar. I would guess many of these devices output more that one watt.

Gene

afterburner

My Feedback: (18)

What I find amazing is that we try to put the best, most reliable, most trusted equipment we can afford into our $$jets$$ and we don't spend the time before a flight to load check our batteries. I even check my son's 40 size trainer before each flight cause it's just not worth losing a plane to a low or failing battery.

Marty

HAMMERDOWN

My Feedback: (100)

Must be nice to be perfect!

afterburner

My Feedback: (18)

Perfect? Far from it. Just ask my wife. Seriously though, we all develop habits and routines in whatever hobby/sport we participate in. Some are good and some are bad. I've found that forcing myself to check batteries before each flight became second nature after a while and then it's just part of the pre-flight routine. To me, losing or severely damaging a plane due to a low battery condition would pi$$ me off more than any other component failure as it could have been easily avoided in many cases. JMO


Marty

Dustflyer

My Feedback: (13)

I really think Li-Poly or Li-Ion batteries breed complacency. I wish I had a nickel for every time I've heard how many times you can fly a plane on some such or other Lithium pack. 2100 mah is 2100 mah whether its Lithium or Nicad. The capacity, or "fuel in the tank" is the same no matter what type of battery. It is my understanding that newer high-power digital servos draw enormous current. Add in a little binding, a retract valve pushing back a bit, or hammering 10 digital servos at once and you have the potential for tremendous current draw and pack depletion. Control surfaces that swing free and easy on the ground may indeed bind under heavy flight loads.

One of the best pieces of advice I every got was from George Joy at Sirius chargers. He always said while standing around shooting the breeze between flights always put your batteries on charge and top them off. That's the beauty of nicads or nimh, you can quick charge. I run two 4 cell pack in my 33% Cap and charge between flights. The come off the charger at 5.47 volts and I land with 5.2 or better. It's like flying with 5 cell packs and regulators but less weight.

In spite of all that I think I've just been lucky up to now. So far I haven't run any more than seven digitals at once. As my digital servo count goes up I think I will add a servo power isolator as a precaution. Come to think of it, maybe I better do it right away and certainly before I try XPS or Spektrum.

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Hi Gene,

I would hazard a guess that by now, there have been well over 1000 jet flights at Sepulveda Basin using Spektrum hardware on 2.4 GHz. I would imagine that if there is some sort of 2.4 GHz RF "boogeyman" out there it would have nailed those Spektrum guys a long time ago. All speculation, very hard to "prove" anything with these new radios (or any radios for that matter!)

dbateman

My Feedback: (31)

They let you fly jets there? Things have changed i guess. I flew my A-4 there as a guest years ago and from the moment i took off i had some old geezer bending my ear while i was trying to fly. After a few minutes i said just let me land and i won't bother you anymore. Very conservative crowd at that time. It is a nice spot, just a tad tight on the right hand approach with the road and wires. Doug

Dustflyer

My Feedback: (13)

Mr Matt,

That's not the first time I've heard that. Seems to be some areas where Spektrum works fine but XPS does not.

For now I'm thinking about taking my chances and just sticking with 72.

Good to hear from you,

Gene