View Poll Results: A poll
Voters: 79. You may not vote on this poll
Digitech issues? Now with poll
08-14-2007 | 09:01 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Ausyland, AUSTRALIA
Digitech issues? Now with poll
I just bought my first turbine, and hope to maiden the jet in a weeks or so time. Spooled up my wren 44 gold a couple of times now, and runs perfect.
Recently i have seen 2 Digitech plastic cased Fadecs apparently having issues, the first one apparently put a jet in, on a wren 54 due to interferance issues (once the fadec was replaced apparently it was fine), saw another one not start and run the engine properly on a 54 SS brand new (replaced with a gasper seems to run fine now), and I saw a turbine heli go in on the weekend and not sure why it locked out also running a wren fadec. I have this same fadec that came with my wren 44.
Do I need to be worried at all? Have you ever heard of the fadec causing the reciever to go into fail safe mode?
cheers
Recently i have seen 2 Digitech plastic cased Fadecs apparently having issues, the first one apparently put a jet in, on a wren 54 due to interferance issues (once the fadec was replaced apparently it was fine), saw another one not start and run the engine properly on a 54 SS brand new (replaced with a gasper seems to run fine now), and I saw a turbine heli go in on the weekend and not sure why it locked out also running a wren fadec. I have this same fadec that came with my wren 44.
Do I need to be worried at all? Have you ever heard of the fadec causing the reciever to go into fail safe mode?
cheers
08-14-2007 | 09:19 AM
#2
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 522
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: RotherhamYorkshire, UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Wren fadec issues?
ECUs do occasionally have issues, but of course the few that do are always much more noticeable than the hundreds that don't.
Some people claim that there is a problem with some versions of the FADEC when used with a certain brand of radio. However, there are people who have been flying Wrens for years with this manufacturer's radio and never had a problem. One suggestion is that this brand's receivers are more sensitive to interference from the ECU than other brands, and it is a good idea to mount the ECU as far away from the receiver as possible.
We are looking into these claims, but so far, for every theory put forward we have someone else whose experience seems to disprove it.
Sara Parish
Wren Turbines
Some people claim that there is a problem with some versions of the FADEC when used with a certain brand of radio. However, there are people who have been flying Wrens for years with this manufacturer's radio and never had a problem. One suggestion is that this brand's receivers are more sensitive to interference from the ECU than other brands, and it is a good idea to mount the ECU as far away from the receiver as possible.
We are looking into these claims, but so far, for every theory put forward we have someone else whose experience seems to disprove it.
Sara Parish
Wren Turbines
08-14-2007 | 10:33 AM
#3
RE: Wren fadec issues?
We are the manufacturers of the Hardware for the Wren ECU (blue or green casing).
Gaspar Espiell does the programming.
it seems where ever there are problems they seem only to occur in australia strangly enough.
i use our ecu with JR , Futaba ,(all on 35mhz) and very recent 2,4 Ghz and never had or have a issue.
there are hundreds of these ecu,s out there and only a very few had a problem.(most are user errors)
i also flew/fly Turboprops , 44,s supersports .
are you guys using by any chance futaba G3 receivers?
we need to start comparing on transmittors and receivers used.
i also got a ECU back that as soon you would connect it to a futaba receiver it would shorten the range.
we replaced the ecu to that customers and all was fine.
i tested this ecu on my own jet and i also had NO problems , so this is a weird fenomenon.
it seems to be only happening on futaba these days , in Germany there is a huge problem of receiver issues on the G3 combined with turbines.
Futaba urges everyone to use filters to clean the signal from the ECU...(this was recomended to ALL ecu,s not only the Wren ecu)
go figure..
Sandor
Gaspar Espiell does the programming.
it seems where ever there are problems they seem only to occur in australia strangly enough.
i use our ecu with JR , Futaba ,(all on 35mhz) and very recent 2,4 Ghz and never had or have a issue.
there are hundreds of these ecu,s out there and only a very few had a problem.(most are user errors)
i also flew/fly Turboprops , 44,s supersports .
are you guys using by any chance futaba G3 receivers?
we need to start comparing on transmittors and receivers used.
i also got a ECU back that as soon you would connect it to a futaba receiver it would shorten the range.
we replaced the ecu to that customers and all was fine.
i tested this ecu on my own jet and i also had NO problems , so this is a weird fenomenon.
it seems to be only happening on futaba these days , in Germany there is a huge problem of receiver issues on the G3 combined with turbines.
Futaba urges everyone to use filters to clean the signal from the ECU...(this was recomended to ALL ecu,s not only the Wren ecu)
go figure..
Sandor
08-14-2007 | 10:38 AM
#4
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,081
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
From: glasgowScotland, UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Wren fadec issues?
Sandor
I can report that I have had no issues so far using the Futaba G3 rx with my Supersport it has flown in two models without any problems, no filters used.
John
I can report that I have had no issues so far using the Futaba G3 rx with my Supersport it has flown in two models without any problems, no filters used.
John
08-14-2007 | 10:42 AM
#5
RE: Wren fadec issues?
ORIGINAL: john agnew
Sandor
I can report that I have had no issues so far using the Futaba G3 rx with my Supersport it has flown in two models without any problems, no filters used.
John
Sandor
I can report that I have had no issues so far using the Futaba G3 rx with my Supersport it has flown in two models without any problems, no filters used.
John
well i have seen one person in ireland that had serious lockout issues on 35mhz where on 71mhz the same receiver had NO issues.
so this is not only localy a problem but seems to me something more.
Note: not a Wren ecu
08-14-2007 | 10:45 AM
#6
RE: Wren fadec issues?
ORIGINAL: john agnew
Sandor
I can report that I have had no issues so far using the Futaba G3 rx with my Supersport it has flown in two models without any problems, no filters used.
John
Sandor
I can report that I have had no issues so far using the Futaba G3 rx with my Supersport it has flown in two models without any problems, no filters used.
John
there was or is still a topic going on on strange behaviour on 35mhz G3.
i can t tell you john
like you i have also seen lots of people having flown the fastest jets with G3 and no problems at all...
dont really now , this is one of these things that is no easy to find out , or when it hits you.
to me it is a band issue 35,70,71 Mhz
08-14-2007 | 10:59 AM
#7
RE: Wren fadec issues?
i use the wren ECU on futaba and on Weatronic..even not on wren turbines (ram500) all in 35 Mhz..
so far no problems..even with the rx nearby (3 cm) from the ECU..
with the G3 i still have no test..altough last WE i did a "killer" test with the G3 in one electric model..and the result is awesome.. (R5014)..
so far no problems..even with the rx nearby (3 cm) from the ECU..
with the G3 i still have no test..altough last WE i did a "killer" test with the G3 in one electric model..and the result is awesome.. (R5014)..
what is a G3 futaba reciever when its at home..?
08-14-2007 | 03:54 PM
#9
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: NSW, AUSTRALIA
RE: Wren fadec issues?
ORIGINAL: digitech
it seems where ever there are problems they seem only to occur in australia strangly enough.
Sandor
it seems where ever there are problems they seem only to occur in australia strangly enough.
Sandor
Nothin but problems here also
08-14-2007 | 07:28 PM
#10
My Feedback: (1)
RE: Wren fadec issues?
Sandor, is it an error or a a same receiver may be used in both 35 and 71 Mhz as you quoted on post #5?. You referred it was the same receiver model but not the same receiver perhaps?.
In the other hand, I understand it is worlwide known FADEC ECUs are very sensitive to receiver battery voltage and may be easily check how they read RPMs and register working time when voltage reachs between 4.7-4.8 V. Then in use I do not know of any flame out related to this "bug", as here in Spain some tried to link their dead sticksd to it, really it has been impossible to prove such. I personally have seen this many times and it was one of the reasons (among others) that FADEC ECU controlled turbines were descarted for a domestic target UAV switching to more proven German and Dutch brands.
Finally, and regarding Futaba G3 receiver, I must admit first hand reference of troubles with them but unfortunately one of the sources are a well know erratic Spanish pilot team with many planes killed on their belts (before and after introduction of the G3 receivers) and then a novel RC modeller with more money than flying training that quickly pointed to his 5014 receiver for losing control after switching a certain function on the plane when on the crash video is very clear it was due to loss of orientation of a camouflaged jet against a grey sky.
Anyway I think the major trouble is that due to the great cost of this RC discipline many think that the material used is "bulletproof" and we all know that does not exist even in real planes and that if we would like products with a quality and realibility close to that of real planes, prices should be no 2 or 3 times actual prices but most probably 30 to 50 times current ones.
Best Regards,
Jesus Cardin
In the other hand, I understand it is worlwide known FADEC ECUs are very sensitive to receiver battery voltage and may be easily check how they read RPMs and register working time when voltage reachs between 4.7-4.8 V. Then in use I do not know of any flame out related to this "bug", as here in Spain some tried to link their dead sticksd to it, really it has been impossible to prove such. I personally have seen this many times and it was one of the reasons (among others) that FADEC ECU controlled turbines were descarted for a domestic target UAV switching to more proven German and Dutch brands.
Finally, and regarding Futaba G3 receiver, I must admit first hand reference of troubles with them but unfortunately one of the sources are a well know erratic Spanish pilot team with many planes killed on their belts (before and after introduction of the G3 receivers) and then a novel RC modeller with more money than flying training that quickly pointed to his 5014 receiver for losing control after switching a certain function on the plane when on the crash video is very clear it was due to loss of orientation of a camouflaged jet against a grey sky.
Anyway I think the major trouble is that due to the great cost of this RC discipline many think that the material used is "bulletproof" and we all know that does not exist even in real planes and that if we would like products with a quality and realibility close to that of real planes, prices should be no 2 or 3 times actual prices but most probably 30 to 50 times current ones.
Best Regards,
Jesus Cardin
08-14-2007 | 07:57 PM
#11
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Ausyland, AUSTRALIA
RE: Wren fadec issues?
This looks like it will turn out to be a very interesting thread. I personaly use JR, so I may be ok. I believe the other guys who had trouble use Futaba 12mz, and the 14mz radios, prolly with the g3 recievers. Ill get them to chime in.
2.4 looks very tempting, I tried it out on a heli last weekend, and quite satisfied.
cheers
2.4 looks very tempting, I tried it out on a heli last weekend, and quite satisfied.
cheers
08-15-2007 | 01:02 AM
#13
RE: Wren fadec issues?
ORIGINAL: djindivik
I'll repeat Treadstones question; What is a Futaba G3 reciever ?
Ray.
I'll repeat Treadstones question; What is a Futaba G3 reciever ?
Ray.
http://www.14mz.com/
http://www.14mz.com/accessories/futl7700-2.jpg
basically is the new receiver from futaba, that works with 2048 PCM resolution (double of previous)..allowing a faster response..and 14 channel..
what is known, that there are reports that this RX has problems, or she's more sensible to external noise..producing more lockouts..or less range..
now futaba has released a new one, (R5114) that allow to go "slower"-> less sensitive to noise..
personnally, up to now very satisfied from this RX..but more test to come..(no jet..)
hope that helps
08-15-2007 | 01:39 AM
#14
RE: Wren fadec issues?
ORIGINAL: jescardin
Sandor, is it an error or a a same receiver may be used in both 35 and 71 Mhz as you quoted on post #5?. You referred it was the same receiver model but not the same receiver perhaps?.
In the other hand, I understand it is worlwide known FADEC ECUs are very sensitive to receiver battery voltage and may be easily check how they read RPMs and register working time when voltage reachs between 4.7-4.8 V. Then in use I do not know of any flame out related to this "bug", as here in Spain some tried to link their dead sticksd to it, really it has been impossible to prove such. I personally have seen this many times and it was one of the reasons (among others) that FADEC ECU controlled turbines were descarted for a domestic target UAV switching to more proven German and Dutch brands.
Finally, and regarding Futaba G3 receiver, I must admit first hand reference of troubles with them but unfortunately one of the sources are a well know erratic Spanish pilot team with many planes killed on their belts (before and after introduction of the G3 receivers) and then a novel RC modeller with more money than flying training that quickly pointed to his 5014 receiver for losing control after switching a certain function on the plane when on the crash video is very clear it was due to loss of orientation of a camouflaged jet against a grey sky.
Anyway I think the major trouble is that due to the great cost of this RC discipline many think that the material used is "bulletproof" and we all know that does not exist even in real planes and that if we would like products with a quality and realibility close to that of real planes, prices should be no 2 or 3 times actual prices but most probably 30 to 50 times current ones.
Best Regards,
Jesus Cardin
Sandor, is it an error or a a same receiver may be used in both 35 and 71 Mhz as you quoted on post #5?. You referred it was the same receiver model but not the same receiver perhaps?.
In the other hand, I understand it is worlwide known FADEC ECUs are very sensitive to receiver battery voltage and may be easily check how they read RPMs and register working time when voltage reachs between 4.7-4.8 V. Then in use I do not know of any flame out related to this "bug", as here in Spain some tried to link their dead sticksd to it, really it has been impossible to prove such. I personally have seen this many times and it was one of the reasons (among others) that FADEC ECU controlled turbines were descarted for a domestic target UAV switching to more proven German and Dutch brands.
Finally, and regarding Futaba G3 receiver, I must admit first hand reference of troubles with them but unfortunately one of the sources are a well know erratic Spanish pilot team with many planes killed on their belts (before and after introduction of the G3 receivers) and then a novel RC modeller with more money than flying training that quickly pointed to his 5014 receiver for losing control after switching a certain function on the plane when on the crash video is very clear it was due to loss of orientation of a camouflaged jet against a grey sky.
Anyway I think the major trouble is that due to the great cost of this RC discipline many think that the material used is "bulletproof" and we all know that does not exist even in real planes and that if we would like products with a quality and realibility close to that of real planes, prices should be no 2 or 3 times actual prices but most probably 30 to 50 times current ones.
Best Regards,
Jesus Cardin
for the event they swapped to 35mhz and nothing but troubles with the same brand and receiver type at the exact position.
the issue you mention with the ECU being under powered has been solved also a long time ago.
In fact they start working on 3,5 volts up to 9 volts with no problems..
there was never a problem with this especially a flame out.
the problem occurred only when the rpm lead was VERY close to digital servo,s or its leads.(heli,s )
it would read a rpm and would fail to start since the ecu was reading a rpm above 0.
it would not cause a flame out..
i also believe these problems have disappeared .
i can tell you anything off course , but i also use them myself on many shows.
if they would not work , it would show there..
08-15-2007 | 02:41 AM
#15
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,081
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
From: glasgowScotland, UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Wren fadec issues?
TS
The G3 refers to the new(ish) Futaba rx which operates on PCM 2048 resolution as compared to the current PCM 1024 resolution. It is claimed to have a 40% faster response and double the resolution of the PCM 1024, it can also operate up to 14 channels. I have one and the programming is very easy and flexible i.e. you can set any channel to any function and with 14 channels you can have a channel for each control surface and match & trim them with great precision.
John
The G3 refers to the new(ish) Futaba rx which operates on PCM 2048 resolution as compared to the current PCM 1024 resolution. It is claimed to have a 40% faster response and double the resolution of the PCM 1024, it can also operate up to 14 channels. I have one and the programming is very easy and flexible i.e. you can set any channel to any function and with 14 channels you can have a channel for each control surface and match & trim them with great precision.
John
08-15-2007 | 03:51 AM
#16
RE: Wren fadec issues?
ORIGINAL: digitech
it seems where ever there are problems they seem only to occur in australia strangly enough.
Sandor
it seems where ever there are problems they seem only to occur in australia strangly enough.
Sandor
Regards,
David Gladwin.
08-15-2007 | 07:20 AM
#18
RE: Wren fadec issues?
I use Wren ECU's with Futaba with no problems on 35mhz.
I hav eseen the issue with servo movement causing errors on the rpm readings.
I still use the capacitor on the sensor wire, it stops it completely.
Paul
I hav eseen the issue with servo movement causing errors on the rpm readings.
I still use the capacitor on the sensor wire, it stops it completely.
Paul
08-15-2007 | 10:50 AM
#19
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: ArmadaleWestern Australia, AUSTRALIA
RE: Wren fadec issues?
I have to put on record that the ECU's that have had 'issues' are related to the DIGITECH ECU.
One Digitech ecu on the Wren SS is 'suspected' to have caused rx lockout and resulted in a crash. The same ECU is 'suspected' to have caused a second lockout crash. Another Digitech is 'suspected' to have caused my friends turbine heli crash with the MW54. And coincidently a brand new ECU sent to us by Wren to use on the SuperSport was causing erratic shut downs and would not let the turbine spool up, lock-outs and unexplicable starter runs.
Changed to the Gaspbar fadec, also supplied by Wren and all these problems went away.
Initially I thought that the problem was more related to an incompatibility with the SuperSport but being that it occurred on the MW54, I can only assume it may be a batch problem.
I say suspected lockouts because we can never be 100% sure it caused the lockout crashes because we didn't have analytical tools during flight.
One Digitech ecu on the Wren SS is 'suspected' to have caused rx lockout and resulted in a crash. The same ECU is 'suspected' to have caused a second lockout crash. Another Digitech is 'suspected' to have caused my friends turbine heli crash with the MW54. And coincidently a brand new ECU sent to us by Wren to use on the SuperSport was causing erratic shut downs and would not let the turbine spool up, lock-outs and unexplicable starter runs.
Changed to the Gaspbar fadec, also supplied by Wren and all these problems went away.
Initially I thought that the problem was more related to an incompatibility with the SuperSport but being that it occurred on the MW54, I can only assume it may be a batch problem.
I say suspected lockouts because we can never be 100% sure it caused the lockout crashes because we didn't have analytical tools during flight.
08-15-2007 | 10:56 AM
#20
RE: Wren fadec issues?
ORIGINAL: MAX NITRO
I have to put on record that the ECU's that have had 'issues' are related to the DIGITECH ECU.
One Digitech ecu on the Wren SS is 'suspected' to have caused rx lockout and resulted in a crash. The same ECU is 'suspected' to have caused a second lockout crash. Another Digitech is 'suspected' to have caused my friends turbine heli crash with the MW54. And coincidently a brand new ECU sent to us by Wren to use on the SuperSport was causing erratic shut downs and would not let the turbine spool up, lock-outs and unexplicable starter runs.
Changed to the Gaspbar fadec, also supplied by Wren and all these problems went away.
Initially I thought that the problem was more related to an incompatibility with the SuperSport but being that it occurred on the MW54, I can only assume it may be a batch problem.
I say suspected lockouts because we can never be 100% sure it caused the lockout crashes because we didn't have analytical tools during flight.
I have to put on record that the ECU's that have had 'issues' are related to the DIGITECH ECU.
One Digitech ecu on the Wren SS is 'suspected' to have caused rx lockout and resulted in a crash. The same ECU is 'suspected' to have caused a second lockout crash. Another Digitech is 'suspected' to have caused my friends turbine heli crash with the MW54. And coincidently a brand new ECU sent to us by Wren to use on the SuperSport was causing erratic shut downs and would not let the turbine spool up, lock-outs and unexplicable starter runs.
Changed to the Gaspbar fadec, also supplied by Wren and all these problems went away.
Initially I thought that the problem was more related to an incompatibility with the SuperSport but being that it occurred on the MW54, I can only assume it may be a batch problem.
I say suspected lockouts because we can never be 100% sure it caused the lockout crashes because we didn't have analytical tools during flight.
what transmittors?
what models?
would be nice to compare some statistics.
please believe me when i say that 98%these problems only occur on heli,s and in australia for some strange reason.
as for lockout , i am sure it would set the ecu to failsafe and shutdown or idle if programmed.
as for batch problems , all ecu,s are tested in hard and software before they leave to Wren.
wierd thing is first they speak about flame out,s now the ecu locks out a complete system?
08-15-2007 | 11:08 AM
#21
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: ArmadaleWestern Australia, AUSTRALIA
RE: Wren fadec issues?
Hi Digitech,
The Transmitters used are: My Futaba 14Mz, My friends 14Mz and another 12Mz
Rx's were G3 and PCM9.
Aircraft: 3 x Baby Boomerangs and a MW54 Spectra 'T' heli.
However we have many other Wrens here on the Gaspbar ECU but never a problem??
Strange, I would like to get to the bottom of it, I can supply you with all the information you need.
The Transmitters used are: My Futaba 14Mz, My friends 14Mz and another 12Mz
Rx's were G3 and PCM9.
Aircraft: 3 x Baby Boomerangs and a MW54 Spectra 'T' heli.
However we have many other Wrens here on the Gaspbar ECU but never a problem??
Strange, I would like to get to the bottom of it, I can supply you with all the information you need.
08-15-2007 | 11:36 AM
#22
Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: phoenix, AZ
RE: Wren fadec issues?
My Fadec ECU from Gaspbar burned out after about 5 runs, so my service guy replaced it with a Regal Electronics ECU. It seems to have its own problems.
08-15-2007 | 01:34 PM
#23
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 308
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Johannesburg, SOUTH AFRICA
RE: Wren fadec issues?
Running FADEC on JR 9 & 10 channel RX on 35 and 53 MHz without problems. Friend running FADEC on Multiplex 4000 on 35 MHz. No problems.
