I am enjoying great success with both my JetCat P70 and a 160 converted to kerosene start. The addition of an external Duralite Lithium Manganese battery for start purposes has greatly increased the number of starts from one charge.

In both applications, BobCat and Skymaster Hawk, it is possible to see the engine enabling an accurate prime right up to the ignitor plug, essential for first time starts.

I am about to install a JetCat SE 160 in my second AW Hawk and the engine is totally ducted and impossible to access or even see without wing removal. My worry is overpriming resulting in fire or underpriming resulting in inconsistent starts.

Anyone got any experience of overcoming these problems ?

Regards, David Gladwin .

Hi David

I am struggling with that at the moment as well. We convereted a Panther with open turbine bay to a P70 kerostart and although it has been faultless in starting I am concerned that a false start or overprime of some sort could lead to some damage. I have seen some kero units appear to loose prime and although those engines started there was a lot of low temp yellow flame. Over winter, I will be working on Eurofighter ( scale version ) and Bandit ARF. At this point I have elected to go with propane start with fully ducted aircraft and kero on the Panther, F84 and Elan. There are two schools of thought right now on kerostarts: those against are saying the cost would buy a lot of glow plugs and propane and the reliability is uncertain ( version 3 now ).On the other hand it sure is nice not to have to carry out the starting paraphenalia!

One could argue that the full bypass would make it easier to put out a fire but I would rather not have a fire to begin with. At any rate, I have both types of JetCats in my fleet and that is the install method I am comfotable with at the moment.


Den Wichmann
Canadian JetCat / PST sales
www.pstna.com
www.helijet.ca

On my P60 I never had to prime, except for the very first start after installation.

Hi David, how are you? I have both systems, both work well although the gas system can let you down in cold weather, the gas just doesn't want to leave the cannister, you can of course start from your main top up cylinder.

I have had two near nasty problems with K St I have had two burners go faulty on me (which JC replaced FOC) when this happens the engine WILL fill up with fuel. Overall though I prefer the K St it's a much more sivilised way to start an engine.

m

The new V3 burners dont have this problem anymore.
it is completely renewed , and not using a spring covered in ceramic anymore.
it is now made of a different material and dont have any parts inside the material anymore.
even the startup time can be shorter now.

and like someone else said , never prime your system exept after a fresh install.
just take a peek in the exhaust while starting sometimes , if you see a small flame it is ok.

quote:

"Overall though I prefer the K St it's a much more sivilised way to start an engine."

Mick15

Yeah mate and so are the fires too - more CIVILISED. Make sure you carry an extra fire extinguisher (instead of the propane )

Springbok Flyer

Does anybody have a picture of the V3 Kero plug?

Thanks.

Make sure you carry an extra fire extinguisher (instead of the propane )
Do you mean you have propane in your fire extinguisher........sounds like fun!

m

something like this

Now this is the way to go!!! Sandor, when do you think you can start delivery of those?? My P200 is waiting for one, remember!?

yes remember you , email me please.

David and people

I have been using the Kero option for more than a year now-reflecting on it during a recent visit to JC I have had the same V1 unit in my ARF Bandit since day one November last year (2006) and it has never missed a start. Other people have had a wide range of experiences.
JC say that the V3.0 so far has been perfect, it does use slightly more current, so a good ECU battery and not over extended power (3 wire) cables are needed.
I've been sending out V3 units since late July and so far none have come back.
As many say it is only needed to prime the unit first time if you have no air leaks. My Bandit is fully ducted.

Dave

a good Lipo of 2500 mah (flightpower eco series) is just fine.

if you want a powerhouse one could use a 3200.

Out of interest, are there these issues/risks with factory delivered kero start engines such as the G-Booster 160?

Mark

If they fail yes!
The important thing is if a start fails-stand the aeroplane on it's nose to clear excess Kero (not tail down-other to clear what might be in the tail pipe tube) Wipe any Kero from in the tail tube before re-trying

Dave W

Thanks for your inputs guys, very much appreciated, it seems the jury is still out so I will continue to use propane in ducted installations such as the Hawk. In fact you can see the ignitor in the Hawk (via the GTS exhaust) IF the smoke tank is not installed.

Dave W's suggestion of draining the model on its nose after a failed start is excellent advice. (but difficult with something like a FC Mig 29 !) May I add that it is, in addition, also good procedure to follow fullsize practice to do a dry run after a failed start and BLOW any remaining fuel out of the engine by using the GSU and then ensuring the tailpipe is dry.

I have heard it said that kero start is much kinder to the engine than propane. However, my highest cycle/ time engine, a PST 600 has always started on propane and is as good now as it was when delivered about 5 years ago. Seems propane is doing it no harm.

Again, thank you for your input.

Regards, David Gladwin.