SHOCKED !
11-15-2007, 01:22 AM
#77
RE: SHOCKED !
Hi,
While I don't discount GKerr's experience--or condone rude behavior to an honest customer--I do think people should take the man in totality. He's been gruff and unpolished around me, and even rude to others in my presence, but I've also seen him behave in ways I thought were so far above and beyond the call of good customer service.
Obviously, I don't buy his planes because I rep Yellow, but I've owned three of his kits and his product AND his innovative contributions are undeniably superb. His impact on the jet hobby shouldn't be forgotten, even if he does forget himself from time to time.
Again, GKerr's experience was unfortunate, and his reaction to it is fair. Some people, though, are getting just a wee bit sanctimonious and self-important with their bandwagoning. I hope good service is rewarded with loyal patronage (though that is often trumped by lower prices), but I also hope people learn to excercise a little more forgiveness and grace when it comes to other peoples' shortcomings.
While I don't discount GKerr's experience--or condone rude behavior to an honest customer--I do think people should take the man in totality. He's been gruff and unpolished around me, and even rude to others in my presence, but I've also seen him behave in ways I thought were so far above and beyond the call of good customer service.
Obviously, I don't buy his planes because I rep Yellow, but I've owned three of his kits and his product AND his innovative contributions are undeniably superb. His impact on the jet hobby shouldn't be forgotten, even if he does forget himself from time to time.
Again, GKerr's experience was unfortunate, and his reaction to it is fair. Some people, though, are getting just a wee bit sanctimonious and self-important with their bandwagoning. I hope good service is rewarded with loyal patronage (though that is often trumped by lower prices), but I also hope people learn to excercise a little more forgiveness and grace when it comes to other peoples' shortcomings.
11-15-2007, 07:21 AM
#78
RE: SHOCKED !
I think this thread should go away. It serves no purpose except to bash someone. Whether you like BV or not it does not serve the modeling community with any useful material. It's a lot more fun to play nice and enjoy our hobby. Just my 2 cents worth.
11-15-2007, 07:22 AM
#79
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RE: SHOCKED !
the other deal with this thread is that g kerr in the last 3 weeks has had a total of 3 threads like this. 2 were moaning about the slow email responses or no quick email response from skymaster. and in that thread he said he should have known not to go chinese. now he and anton kissed and made up and he and bvm butted heads and now it is bv's turn to be shouted about here in rcu. i remember once a gentleman had a jet for sale here on rcu and in his ad he stated that a friend of his told him the jet was so nice that if it were entered in the toledo model show that it would probably have won best sport jet. well g kerr, being a regular competing at toledo, belittled the man in his own add telling him it was awfully crass to say such a thing. i always thought that was wrong. it was an ad, what difference did it make, it may have been nicer. g kerr may be a very nice guy, but things translated over the internet, he is a little over the top for me and has been for quite some time. so i consider what little experience i have with the author of some of these threads to make my judgement and in this case i am willing to give bv the benefit. i am not saying bv is a saint, but neither am i but i am still an ok guy. barry
11-15-2007, 07:45 AM
#80
RE: SHOCKED !
Shaun,
Very good post. I too can not defend a reaction such as Bob is claimed to have made (as Barry said, Mr. Kerr has not established himself as the most level-headed, gracious guy on RCU), but the quality of his work and his contribution to jet modeling is beyond question.
Did you ever see one of those cartoons in the AMA mag. about 20 years ago where is showed a guy getting a new kit via mail order for really low $'s? Then he goes to the hobby store to get a control horn and its closed - gone out of business. It was part of their "support your local hobby shop" campaign. Deja vu, hum? While the percentage markup on accessories may be higher as Mr. Kerr asserts, BVM can't make ends meet on selling $20 items without selling some $4000-$5000 kits. I'd be willing to bet that if Mr Kerr never buys another BVM accessory, BVM lost more $'s on missing the sale of one Saber kit when he bought the one from China...
If you talk to BV about his business, one of the first things that always comes up is the people who work for him (if you've ever been down there, you know its quite a few). I have no doubt that weighs on him and I'm sure he also wants to leave Patty and his family a viable business. Perhaps those pressures are getting to him as he gets older. He's always been "gruff," but in my experience, if you "weather the storm" he will repay your loyalty. I have several people who I work with that are exactly like that. We all have our foibles and as we get older they tend to come to the top more often - or perhaps we're less worried about keeping them hidden...
Color me a bit disappointed in the alledged reaction, but SHOCKED, not really...
Bob
Very good post. I too can not defend a reaction such as Bob is claimed to have made (as Barry said, Mr. Kerr has not established himself as the most level-headed, gracious guy on RCU), but the quality of his work and his contribution to jet modeling is beyond question.
Did you ever see one of those cartoons in the AMA mag. about 20 years ago where is showed a guy getting a new kit via mail order for really low $'s? Then he goes to the hobby store to get a control horn and its closed - gone out of business. It was part of their "support your local hobby shop" campaign. Deja vu, hum? While the percentage markup on accessories may be higher as Mr. Kerr asserts, BVM can't make ends meet on selling $20 items without selling some $4000-$5000 kits. I'd be willing to bet that if Mr Kerr never buys another BVM accessory, BVM lost more $'s on missing the sale of one Saber kit when he bought the one from China...
If you talk to BV about his business, one of the first things that always comes up is the people who work for him (if you've ever been down there, you know its quite a few). I have no doubt that weighs on him and I'm sure he also wants to leave Patty and his family a viable business. Perhaps those pressures are getting to him as he gets older. He's always been "gruff," but in my experience, if you "weather the storm" he will repay your loyalty. I have several people who I work with that are exactly like that. We all have our foibles and as we get older they tend to come to the top more often - or perhaps we're less worried about keeping them hidden...
Color me a bit disappointed in the alledged reaction, but SHOCKED, not really...
Bob
11-15-2007, 09:14 AM
#82
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RE: SHOCKED !
This thread should be shut down. It's not going anywhere except the public criticism of a man who has contributed so much to the R/C jet community. If you don't like BV products or the people who sell them don't buy them. You live in a free society. I'll buy from BV because he makes a great product. Period.
11-15-2007, 09:36 AM
#83
RE: SHOCKED !
ORIGINAL: tommyboy1229
And why you would want to enter that " chinese Junk" (just quoting) in a scale competition is beyond me. I do understand not being able to afford a 7,000 dollar kit, but all this buying everything from china just because it's cheap, built, and already painted will come back to bite us hard and sooner than we think!
Go ahead flame away!
And why you would want to enter that " chinese Junk" (just quoting) in a scale competition is beyond me. I do understand not being able to afford a 7,000 dollar kit, but all this buying everything from china just because it's cheap, built, and already painted will come back to bite us hard and sooner than we think!
Go ahead flame away!
I take it nobody who likes to pile on China has 'ever' bought anything at WalMart, or takes into consideration what country 'owns' the majority of the US of A debt out there. China is our personal bank, guess what would happen if they called in the loans we've got. Especially in light of the US green Peso these days. We are not alone in this world, we are in a global market weather we like it or not, and we will cease to be a player if our arrogance blinds us to the changing realities.
11-15-2007, 09:39 AM
#84
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RE: SHOCKED !
Welcome to humanity; it is what it is. And in totality it's good.
I've got to go with Barry and Bob - Not shocked and not surprised. I'll still buy BVM products and think that BV is a very decent person at heart. I also don't agree with his customer service attitude, but that's fair and it's his business. His personality is coming out and to say he's pasionate about the hobby, both negative and positive, appears to be undeniable.
Passion with innovation like that and it's attendant volatility is usually the mark of a very, very bright person I've found. True, there are those exceptional people who temper themselves and "have it all", but they are truly few and far between. I've had some truly gifted employees that brought my programs up to a quality I would never have attained without them and they each had personality quirks that made them, um "challenging" to manage. They could be Azzwholes at times. Would not change that for the world. You manage the personality and never take it personally, though they want you to.
I'll take a "colorful character" that pushes hard in SOME direction over an "all around nice guy" going nowhere any day.
I hope somone takes over BVM one day that has as much ambition and creativity to make the thing survive, otherwise we loose the leader of the field to overseas and thus our hobby quality becomes whatever they want.
Oh, and I'll buy both. I need the leader and the pawns.
I've got to go with Barry and Bob - Not shocked and not surprised. I'll still buy BVM products and think that BV is a very decent person at heart. I also don't agree with his customer service attitude, but that's fair and it's his business. His personality is coming out and to say he's pasionate about the hobby, both negative and positive, appears to be undeniable.
Passion with innovation like that and it's attendant volatility is usually the mark of a very, very bright person I've found. True, there are those exceptional people who temper themselves and "have it all", but they are truly few and far between. I've had some truly gifted employees that brought my programs up to a quality I would never have attained without them and they each had personality quirks that made them, um "challenging" to manage. They could be Azzwholes at times. Would not change that for the world. You manage the personality and never take it personally, though they want you to.
I'll take a "colorful character" that pushes hard in SOME direction over an "all around nice guy" going nowhere any day.
I hope somone takes over BVM one day that has as much ambition and creativity to make the thing survive, otherwise we loose the leader of the field to overseas and thus our hobby quality becomes whatever they want.
Oh, and I'll buy both. I need the leader and the pawns.
11-15-2007, 10:09 AM
#85
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RE: SHOCKED !
This ones are now playing at BVM factory. Somebody please give me some Kleenex tissue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02EXYSuFHjw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Tiz6INF7I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02EXYSuFHjw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Tiz6INF7I
11-15-2007, 10:15 AM
#87
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RE: SHOCKED !
ORIGINAL: GlennisAircraft
Never thought we would see the dark days on RCU when the anti-BVM threads would be allowed.
Dennis
Never thought we would see the dark days on RCU when the anti-BVM threads would be allowed.
Dennis
Do you ever have anything POSSITIVE TO SAY ABOUT RCU?
11-15-2007, 10:32 AM
#90
RE: SHOCKED !
By the way, good posts Shaun and Chuck!
BV's an innovator and has poured his passion and intellect into the same hobby we have all loved and been a part of. Our experiences in jet modeling have been undoubtedly elevated by what he's brought to the table. No one can argue the overall good quality of the physical product really. And everyone can have a bad day, and sometimes we have to give the benefit of the doubt.
Interestingly enough I was also treated to some arrogance last year on the phone by a BVM employee whan I called to inquire about products. I won't go into the gory details but I was dissapointed by the experience.
Maybe - just maybe, a thread like this also should to be looked at objectively by those who might be able to take something away from it to improve their product - even if it's just the 'personality' side of the customer service end of that product.
BV's an innovator and has poured his passion and intellect into the same hobby we have all loved and been a part of. Our experiences in jet modeling have been undoubtedly elevated by what he's brought to the table. No one can argue the overall good quality of the physical product really. And everyone can have a bad day, and sometimes we have to give the benefit of the doubt.
Interestingly enough I was also treated to some arrogance last year on the phone by a BVM employee whan I called to inquire about products. I won't go into the gory details but I was dissapointed by the experience.
Maybe - just maybe, a thread like this also should to be looked at objectively by those who might be able to take something away from it to improve their product - even if it's just the 'personality' side of the customer service end of that product.
11-15-2007, 10:40 AM
#91
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RE: SHOCKED !
ORIGINAL: Eddie P
I agree, we need to consider the price of low cost, but keep things in perspective. Read 'The WalMart Effect' for a good read on this by the way.
I take it nobody who likes to pile on China has 'ever' bought anything at WalMart, or takes into consideration what country 'owns' the majority of the US of A debt out there. China is our personal bank, guess what would happen if they called in the loans we've got. Especially in light of the US green Peso these days. We are not alone in this world, we are in a global market weather we like it or not, and we will cease to be a player if our arrogance blinds us to the changing realities.
ORIGINAL: tommyboy1229
And why you would want to enter that " chinese Junk" (just quoting) in a scale competition is beyond me. I do understand not being able to afford a 7,000 dollar kit, but all this buying everything from china just because it's cheap, built, and already painted will come back to bite us hard and sooner than we think!
Go ahead flame away!
And why you would want to enter that " chinese Junk" (just quoting) in a scale competition is beyond me. I do understand not being able to afford a 7,000 dollar kit, but all this buying everything from china just because it's cheap, built, and already painted will come back to bite us hard and sooner than we think!
Go ahead flame away!
I take it nobody who likes to pile on China has 'ever' bought anything at WalMart, or takes into consideration what country 'owns' the majority of the US of A debt out there. China is our personal bank, guess what would happen if they called in the loans we've got. Especially in light of the US green Peso these days. We are not alone in this world, we are in a global market weather we like it or not, and we will cease to be a player if our arrogance blinds us to the changing realities.
11-15-2007, 10:55 AM
#92
RE: SHOCKED !
All of us have experienced bad customer service at some time. This happened to me with battery vendor just the other day.
My solution was to buy it from one of this companies vendors. So I got the product I deemed the best and I felt appreciated
spending my hard earned cash.
BVM Jets has vendors too, so you can get the product you want dealing with a vendor that will do so with a smile.
Bob Violett is a competitive, intense individual. While not professional nor right, I think this gets the better of him in these situations.
BVM still has the best engineered jets in my opinion.
My solution was to buy it from one of this companies vendors. So I got the product I deemed the best and I felt appreciated
spending my hard earned cash.
BVM Jets has vendors too, so you can get the product you want dealing with a vendor that will do so with a smile.
Bob Violett is a competitive, intense individual. While not professional nor right, I think this gets the better of him in these situations.
BVM still has the best engineered jets in my opinion.
11-15-2007, 12:02 PM
#95
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RE: SHOCKED !
yeah bob , but i am not trying to sell retail to customers- and provide customer service w/ my gruff style- or humor as you say!
11-15-2007, 12:10 PM
#96
RE: SHOCKED !
ORIGINAL: ghost_rider
Do you ever have anything POSSITIVE TO SAY ABOUT RCU?
Do you ever have anything POSSITIVE TO SAY ABOUT RCU?
I do! I do! Let's see....
I LOVE how there's never nine threads going about one product by the same ten or eleven people...
I LOVE how there's never four threads about who farts more or whose weenie is smallest (or gets the most air time)...
I LOVE how bashes are never allowed to flourish cuz the subject of the bash is in bad graces with the mod...
and most of all....
I LOVE the fact that RCU keeps its mods from going into other sites and causing trouble under the guise of Eastern European Intelligence Service Officers....
Now, before any mods or moderator suckups turn on the flamethrowers, this is just harmless, pseudo-sarcastic banter and not the prelude to a lengthy defcon conference....
11-15-2007, 12:11 PM
#97
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RE: SHOCKED !
I'll tell you what shocks me: The fact that Ghost has not only let this thread go on for so long when the point is long exhausted and become outright bashing.....but Ghost, our above the fray and neutral moderator, is doing the piling on! Ghost you've been on your high horse many times in the past re bashing/respect/comportment .....I'm disapppointed for such obvious prejuduce in your conduct here.
Only BVM products I've ever bought/used were some wheels and Aeropoxy. I've met him twice at events. On occasion, maybe his personality is just what has been described....but also remember, we're taking G.Kerr's word for what happened. And BV will not respond here, GKerr and his detractors know that, too.
What we do know for certain, however, is that BV is all that has been described so positively above.....he is far beyond just a great and vital friend to jet modeling. I make allowances for my 'friends'. Some of you guys ought to as well. End this.
Ray
Only BVM products I've ever bought/used were some wheels and Aeropoxy. I've met him twice at events. On occasion, maybe his personality is just what has been described....but also remember, we're taking G.Kerr's word for what happened. And BV will not respond here, GKerr and his detractors know that, too.
What we do know for certain, however, is that BV is all that has been described so positively above.....he is far beyond just a great and vital friend to jet modeling. I make allowances for my 'friends'. Some of you guys ought to as well. End this.
Ray
11-15-2007, 12:20 PM
#98
RE: SHOCKED !
Gerry, I get it!
The customer deserves to be treated in a professional manner. Period
BV did himself a dis-service by talking to you the way you said he did.
I would be pissed if I had been in your shoes.
Did you tell BV he was out of line?
I think if you had responded to this situation by telling BV that you expect to be treated professionally he might change his tune.
Sorry you did not like my humor.
BTW when I told the person at the battery store that I did not like the way she was handling my order she reacted with a blank stare.
I realized right then that I needed to spend my money elsewhere!
The customer deserves to be treated in a professional manner. Period
BV did himself a dis-service by talking to you the way you said he did.
I would be pissed if I had been in your shoes.
Did you tell BV he was out of line?
I think if you had responded to this situation by telling BV that you expect to be treated professionally he might change his tune.
Sorry you did not like my humor.
BTW when I told the person at the battery store that I did not like the way she was handling my order she reacted with a blank stare.
I realized right then that I needed to spend my money elsewhere!
11-15-2007, 12:22 PM
#99
RE: SHOCKED !
I think most of these problems could be avoided if modelers did not try to achieve a "personal" relationship with hobby goods providers.
I don't intent on having dinner with BV and wouldn't expect him to be my kid's godfather, not that there's anything wrong with that.
I think if most of us stick to purchansing BVM parts through the website, we'd be OK. No need to have a CC on file, and no need to talk to Pam for 15 minutes to order some Aeropoxy.
Bob is a business owner and not an entrepenour. That's why he has BVM Reps out there. If you deal with the company manager, expect things like this to happen. I tend to suport his so called roughness, after all, he deals with a lot of crap and personal attacks left to right. It get's sour after a while. He's pretty cool in my opinion, but I don't need to talk to him if I want to buy an UB or a flex plate. I just pint an click, or even better............have a Rep or a LHS do that for me.
Just my honest opinion.
David
I don't intent on having dinner with BV and wouldn't expect him to be my kid's godfather, not that there's anything wrong with that.
I think if most of us stick to purchansing BVM parts through the website, we'd be OK. No need to have a CC on file, and no need to talk to Pam for 15 minutes to order some Aeropoxy.
Bob is a business owner and not an entrepenour. That's why he has BVM Reps out there. If you deal with the company manager, expect things like this to happen. I tend to suport his so called roughness, after all, he deals with a lot of crap and personal attacks left to right. It get's sour after a while. He's pretty cool in my opinion, but I don't need to talk to him if I want to buy an UB or a flex plate. I just pint an click, or even better............have a Rep or a LHS do that for me.
Just my honest opinion.
David
11-15-2007, 12:26 PM
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RE: SHOCKED !
ORIGINAL: YellowAircraft
I do! I do! Let's see....
I LOVE how there's never nine threads going about one product by the same ten or eleven people...
I LOVE how there's never four threads about who farts more or whose weenie is smallest (or gets the most air time)...
I LOVE how bashes are never allowed to flourish cuz the subject of the bash is in bad graces with the mod...
and most of all....
I LOVE the fact that RCU keeps its mods from going into other sites and causing trouble under the guise of Eastern European Intelligence Service Officers....
Now, before any mods or moderator suckups turn on the flamethrowers, this is just harmless, pseudo-sarcastic banter and not the prelude to a lengthy defcon conference....
ORIGINAL: ghost_rider
Do you ever have anything POSSITIVE TO SAY ABOUT RCU?
Do you ever have anything POSSITIVE TO SAY ABOUT RCU?
I do! I do! Let's see....
I LOVE how there's never nine threads going about one product by the same ten or eleven people...
I LOVE how there's never four threads about who farts more or whose weenie is smallest (or gets the most air time)...
I LOVE how bashes are never allowed to flourish cuz the subject of the bash is in bad graces with the mod...
and most of all....
I LOVE the fact that RCU keeps its mods from going into other sites and causing trouble under the guise of Eastern European Intelligence Service Officers....
Now, before any mods or moderator suckups turn on the flamethrowers, this is just harmless, pseudo-sarcastic banter and not the prelude to a lengthy defcon conference....