S_Ellzey

Hi Guys,

During a recent jet event we had a bit more excitement than we would have liked. Something went wrong with a model as it came through a split S and it hit hard several hundred yards from the field. The ensuing fire just about got out of control. The only thing that keep this from turning into a disaster was the presence of three of the Indian Fire pump back packs, and that almost did not get it done, one had to be run back to the club house to be refilled. Had we not had the fourth tank of water we might not have gotten the fire out. There was a incident last year where about two acres of land burned due to the lack of proper fire fighting equipment when a turbine model crashed.

We know that our models do at times crash, and unfortunately at times burn. We need to be prepared for those events. We need to have more proper fire fighting equipment at the field when we fly.

JPO has contacted Forestry Suppliers and made arraignments for a group purchase of the Indian Series 90 Fire Pumps. If you take advantage of this you will get about a 10% discount on the price, which puts the price at $109.29, plus shipping, and tax if you live in Mississippi. The Fire Pump is a 5 gallon metal back pack with a hand pump that is used by fire fighting crews to combat grass and brush fires. They are not pretty or comfortable, but they work, I have had to use one twice now.

The price is about the same as a servo. I am sure that any one who can afford to fly a turbine model and afford to protect the hobby by making sure that crashes do not close fields permanently due to loss of private property.

The flying season is getting into full swing, summer is coming and so is the dry grass in many parts of the country. We have about 20% more turbine pilots now than this time last year, so we will probably have 20% more crashes and 20% more fires. We must keep ahead of this, please order one of the Fire Pumps and take it with you when you fly. You might even see if your flying club would order one to keep at the field, after all turbine models are not the only source of fire.

To order, call Forestry Suppliers at 800-752-8461, ask for Don, and tell him you wish to purchase an Indian Series 90 Fire Pump as part of the Jet Pilot’s Organization group purchase. This is not limited to JPO members only.

Thank you,

Steven Ellzey
President, Jet Pilot’s Organization

bcovish

My Feedback: (8)

If you go to www.bvmjets.com and click on safety issues, a picture of the fire can is posted there.

While on the fire issue, cd's or someone should call or go by the local fire dept. and advise them as to what is going on.
Also get the phone number so you can call the station direct.

VoughtF4U

My Feedback: (1)

One other thing to think about. Post your address of your flying field at your flying field. I know that sounds stupid, but we had an issue last year where a pilot cut his arm pretty bad. They called 911 to get an ambulance but realized they didn't know the address or any of the surrounding roads. Another guy at the field ended up driving him to the hospital.

The same problem would have occurred if we had to call the fire department for a fire from a crash. I guess at least with a fire, we could have waited till it got big enough and told them to follow the smoke. Just a suggestion...

Johng

My Feedback: (4)

A quick web search found this supplier that offers a plastic-jug version as well as the metal-can indian pump. THe plastic one is a bit less expensive, but well suited to the light duty (hopefully) of the RC field.

http://fire-end.com/indian.htm

You can also check with the local fire department. They may be able to set your club up thru their supplier.

lov2flyrc

My Feedback: (24)

Great Idea Steve,
Just called to order a second one for myself, can never be too careful or prepared!
There is also a Collapsible Backpack Firefighting Pump if you want one that is a bit easier to handle and store

http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/pr...ge.asp?id=1578

Every club should have at least two of these units on the flight line at ALL times!

Thanks again Steve.....

BTW.....Everyone should read BVM's safety tips page! Please be safe!........ and for petes sake, no more losing airplanes in the fog!


Thanks Steve
Todd

patf

My Feedback: (4)

One other note to the comment about the address of the flying field. The FD for our field is Austin FD, as our field is in a park that is part of the austin parks and rec district. All the cell phone towers around our field either catch a neighboring city or the county office when you dial 911. The address is important as we have experienced delays due to the fact that a cell phone has dialed the "wrong" emergency response district. So yes the address is important, and you might want to have a club safety representative dial 911 from your field, let them know this is a test immediately, and confirm that you are indeed reaching the emergency response team for your location, based on your address.

bcovish

My Feedback: (8)

Todd

I agree that two is better than nothing, but we had three and had to come back and refill one of them. Luckily we have water on site or we would have been up that famous creek without a paddle or water.

Also, during events a four wheeler with a trailer behind really helps in getting people and water to the burn site.

DavidR

My Feedback: (1)

Another note worth mentioning is the fact that the first crash most of the people there stood and watched response was slow and the fire was pretty well involved before anyone was on the site. The second fire happened at show center, where conditions were such that response was faster, and there was not as much brush, etc... to fuel the fire. In other words when an airplane goes down at the first sign of smoke get to it. The plastic jugs are nice, as well as the canvas bags but, they are useless if you don't keep them full of water and readily accessable if you have a crash.


David Reid

lov2flyrc

My Feedback: (24)

I hear ya Bob, our club now owns two of these units as well so there will be four at the field now filled and ready for use when I am there. I think it may be wise for the club to invest in a four wheeler w/trailer. I will discuss this with the appropriate board members and see what we can do.

brg,
Todd

hornet driver

My Feedback: (7)

just a thought so dont jump on me

it seems that since the wind is blowing there is an up wind side and a down wind side........the down wind side is where the fire spreads and gets out of hand...........since we have been to the moon it seems to me that there should be some sort of fire retardent material in a roll form ( much like the tar paper rools they put on roofs before the shingels) .........this roll(s) could be deployed ....say 10 feet ahead of the fire so that in a minute or two when the fire hits it ........it can be slowed, smoothered or retarded enough to allow the indian water pumps to stop it

is this worth chatin about

also i have seen guys with white plastic 20 gallon fuel jugs....1 or 2 of those ( filled with water ) could really help if put on covish`s flat bed cart to refill the indians on site rather than the drive back to the field to refill...........time is of the essense and the austin crash could of been farther out

one more thing both our field in houston and austin`s are right next to shooting ranges.............at the austin fire i heard that one of the fire fighters got hit with some pellets from the shot guns.........that was my son who has a 4 mm bb machine gun mounted on the nose of his roo and he was straffin ya........just kidding...........

gregg

Johng

My Feedback: (4)

Actually, no hi-tech magic is needed to accomplish this. A couple long handled shovels will go a long way with people that know how to use them. Cutting a fire break into the ground cover and throwing the dirt onto the fire front will help alot. Just need the judgement to know how faw away to start. Then the water guys will need to put out embers that are jumpng the break.

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

Just a note on the 4-wheelers... I discussed this with the firemen who generously donated their time + a fire engine to attend the San Jose jets meet last year. (Interstngly enough, we didn't need them at all during the jet event, but the very next weekend we burnt the field to the ground when a 2-stroke helicopter crashed & burned!)

The opinion from these professionals, was that the use of four-wheelers, or dirt-bikes, etc to get to a crash site quickly with your fire extinguishers, could actually be a self-defeating excercise if not done correctly. Their concern was that the risk of starting a fire is non-trivial if the hot engine / exhaust of these vehcles is in contact with very dry grass & weeds during your run out to the crash scene.

Some 4-wheelers apparently do a better job than others at keeping the hot parts "screened", plus the route you choose to get to the crash site also is important - taking a slightly longer route to avoid driving though long, dry, grass may be the best bet, but most people just go charging off in as direct a route as possible, figuring that an ATV ought to be able to go anywhere.

So - if you're going to employ a 4 wheeler for fire-fighting duties, you may want to invest half an hour or so to have a chat with your local fire dept (preferably at the flying site) to get a little bit of advice from the professionals. It may just make a difference.

Gordon

patf

My Feedback: (4)

just doing some searches on it and on cabela's there is a 25 gallon ATV mounted sprayer for $169. Add a 10' spray bar for $129 more. I think we'll be setting up our crash trailer with this setup. If nothing else you could refill the other sprayers with the tank.

hornet driver

My Feedback: (7)

>>>>>>>>>>> A couple long handled shovels will go a long way with people that know how to use them. Cutting a fire break into the ground cover and throwing the dirt onto the fire front >>>>>>>>


not trying to be scarcastic here but i have bench pressed well over 400 pounds..........run threw doors......sides of houses.....bent steel with my bear hands...........but nothing is tougher than texas gumbo dirt..........i ruined a titanium shovel in five minutes digging in it.............then took an hour recouperating....the dirt we are talking about isnt dir.its more like concrete.......and it amazes me that anything can grow in it

ya`ll know what im talking about

Doug Arnold

When approaching a grass fire the main thing is not to panic and start spraying water everywhere. Pause for a moment take a breath and see what it is doing. Attack the down wind side of the fire from its flanks keeping yourself out of the smoke. dont worry about the up wind side or the debris. it is not going anywhere. with two sprayers, both men can work there way to the center of the downwind side. but obviously in high winds and very dry grass you might not be able to run as fast as it is spreading.. the main thing is it is better to burn alot of grass than have someone get hurt. and getting hurt not only includes getting burned but the adrenaline rush can push people with heart issues over the edge.



Doug A

bcovish

My Feedback: (8)

As far as the trailer is concerned. I found an old Dilly boat trailer in a pasture. After some cutting and welding, made the bed 4x8 so a full sheet of plywood would fit. Put some new tires and a set of bearing and presto, a crash trailer. $60 invested.

six shooter

Before everyone goes running out and start plunking down their money for water packs.

Some good advice has been stated so far. It's very important to know how to fight a fire. As stated, don't go spraying water everywhere. When fighting grass/ brush fire, you only want to keep the fire from spreading, not to put the fire out. What ever is burning, let it burn, it will put itself out. Shovels also work to cut a fire break or to put dirt onto the oncoming flame front. Remember, cut off the fires fuel supply, don't try to put out the fire directly.

Plus, you can purchase water type fire extinguishers from the same place you buy your co2 fire extinguishers for about $30.00, just fill with water, add compressed air from your retract air pump, and your ready to go, just squeeze the trigger.

S_Ellzey

The fire we had to deal with just about burned an area the size of a football field and was put out in about 15 minutes, a fire break large enough to have stopped it would have taken much longer. The soil around here is not easy to work, plus to have made a fire break would have required cutting down trees. In a major forest fire when you have hundreds of fire fighters, lumber jacks and bull dozers, fire breaks work great, when you have a hand full of middle age guys, putting water straight on the fire works good enough.

Steven

DIPSY

Hi guy's
Can I ask why the initial fire wasn't attacked with a foam fire/co2 extinguisher? By chucking water on it you are just spreading the unburnt fuel, thus causing your fire to spread.

Dave

patf

My Feedback: (4)

The impact crater was rather compact, the fuel was already burnt by the time the guys arrived on the scene. if you have ever fought a grass fire, you will find the co2 extinguishers commonly carried by the pilots useless. there was not a foam type on the scene. based on (unfortunate) previous experience, the water can type extinguishers have proven very effective.

Johng

My Feedback: (4)

In the pits on pavement that might be the thing to do, but when the fuel has already ignited organic materials, it's a ground fire, and CO2 or power etc is about useless. Most people don't carry a big enough foam extinguisher to do the job on a ground fire, even one that still very small.

Been there - done that. A group of us used all the extinguishers on the flightline to no result. - No water extinguishers. The fire burned a circle about 100 ft diameter out of the wooded area adjacent to the field before the fire dept got there. Amazingly, the club never heard a peep out of the local gov'mt about it.

BTW- The FD foamed the smoking area - by dumping dishsoap into their truck tank.

jetflyr

In light of the unfortunate experiences of too many with grass fires, I spent about 1 1/2 hours with the Colorado Springs Wildfire Team this afternoon talking about how to be pro-active, since our flying site is out on the plains (VERY drought-stricken).
While not willing to give me "how to fight fires" tips do to liability concerns, the Lt. did give me the following tips:
1) WATER!
2) Dish soap added to the water! This makes the water go much farther since it acts as a wetting agent and surfactant thereby letting it wet the ground cover more efficiently.
3) Straw brooms....yup the ones you have in your kitchens and garages. Use them to flick the embers back into the burn area.
4) Water....by any means available....he felt that any nursery type sprayer would do the job just fine since rule #1 is water!
5) Drill a hole in the sprayer attachment/nozzle to allow greater "foaming" of the soapy water.
6) He felt that 2 or 3, 2-gallon pesticide sprayers attacking from the down wind side would be better than a single "firefighters" back-pack type......more areas of coverage.
7) Looking through their catalogs there is a brand ("Solo") of backpack type sprayers....powered with a rechargable NiCad battery, and Kavan type pump..........his comments were" I bet ya'll could rig up one of these easily".....(a former girlfriend of his' father was an RC-er...)
To summarize....Soapy Water!, brooms, Soapy Water .
Greg

Turbinetech

All of this talk of turbines starting fires is not good for the turbine hobby! I think with all of the bad publicity towards turbines lately this post should be closed and deleted! (Ghost Rider where are you)? We do not need any more help putting a bad light on us. We need to not talk about this kind of stuff in open forum. It just gives people more ammo against us.


Cheers,
JB

bcovish

My Feedback: (8)

You went back along way to drag this thread up to the front. Why didn't you just leave it lay.[:@]

grbaker

My Feedback: (29)

Agree!!!