Hi all. I can see from several of the posts that many were quite disappointed with the weather conditions at Florida Jets this year. I can't say I blame them.
With that in mind I thought I'd take a minute to explain why we would have such a problem in moving the event to another location.
First of all Bunnell Airport's new Manager literally Kicked Us OUT!! Didn't want anything to do with Model Airplanes. Believe me, I would much rather have that site!
Lakeland is a great site, the city welcomes us and the airport works with us. We only get interrupted if there is a true need for the runway we fly adjacent to.
With low visibility and lousy weather, it happened about 4 times. Sorry. But then, we weren't exactly chewing up the sky during those moments anyway. Unfortunately, we aren't as flexible with dates for FJ as you might think. We can't get to close to Lakeland's big event, Sun N Fun because they require weeks to set up and we would be in the way. I could have moved the event one week later this year, and look at the weather, it's been rainy, overcast and blah since Thursday. So I don't know what to do.
Last year we had only one crosswind day and 3 other days of great weather. Anyway, I share the disappointment with those who came a long way and flew sporadically because of weather on Saturday. One last thing, I moved to Lakeland from West Palm Beach, AFTER we secured this airport. Before that, The 4 hour drive got to be old! So, the location of the airoport has nothing to do with me personally. I drove 5 hours to Bunnell! If anyone has a better place, I am sure open to suggestions! Hopefully we can get a better weather prediction too. Parameters are: Wide open spaces, a Runway that runs east-west allowing us to face north to keep the sun out of our faces, no homes to fly over, parking for a thousand cars, room for 40 Motor Homes, electrical and water hookups for same, Electricity for charging models, room for dozens of large tents, room for 30 vendors and a government official that will welcome the dollars we can bring into his area. Let me know.
Thanks,
Frank

Frank, my only suggestion was initially to change date to a later date, but if you are stuck you are stuck. With fuel prices where they are at, and 10 mpg pulling the trailer, I personally spent about $2,000.00 to attend your event. I flew less than 10 times. However, since you've opened a discussion, I have some other comments:

I tried to give you $150.00 bid on a tool set that you had $115.00 bid, and you told me to ***** off at the banquet. Like, litterally said that.

What I realized more than ever this year, is that if you are not known to Frank Tiano, or Bob Violett and team, you are litterally a nobody. What cracks me up more than ever is that Frank Tiano will change the rules because of weather so that BV's planes can win awards when they did not fly, or other manufacturers. Amazing that Manufacturers can win awards, and take them with smiles on their faces, when the customers who spend their money on their products sit there in the back row of the awards ceremony, because we don't have reserved tables, and watch the people who we spend our money on, win awards. It is sickening, and I would love for you to tell me where I am wrong.

I spend 20 grand a year on this hobby. And the only business at Florida Jets that made any effort to get any of my money was Composite Arf. Every other company sat back and just "waited" for the customers to come. Some did. I had $3,000.00 in my pocket to spend, but the whole fat dum and happy sales approach from the vendors "Be there and they will come" didn't work for me. Dreamworks is an obvious exception, but Todd is one of my greatest friends in life.

Florida Jets is off my schedule, and so is buying any of your business' products. Telling women in public that if they give you a Blow Job and money for a product is wrong, even if you are joking. Saying it twice at the awards ceremony is even worse.

Please believe me that this is the unsaid sentiment of many at Florida Jets. Again, you may know my name, but when you see me, I'm just another in a long line of unknown jet pilots, I could see it on your face at the banquet. FROM THE LAST ROW OF TABLES.

5 years ago, I bid on a battery set from Duralite. And won. It was incomplete for whatever reason, when I called Duralite and told them I bought it at the auction, they were remarkably pissed off. Said those batteries were supposed to be a gift to the pilots. To be given away. I don't know how donations from vendors turned into auction for money to FJ's pockets. Could you explain that??

How much do you and your co hearts want to bleed us? How much do you think we can take before we drop this event from our calenders? I know 10 guys that won't back next year, and I know when the thread comes up next year on RCU, you'll have me sitting there telling guys my experiance.

Please respond as nicely as you can, these are real sentiments.

While not necessary, I would ask my friends, and colleagues on RCU to refrain from over posting this thread. Unless for whatever reason you see that I am totally off base, I can handle this discussion with Frank publically, should he choose to respond. The overwhelming support of PM's I've just received indicates that I am pretty much on track.

Move it to Speedworld, Arizona

No thanks. The guys who currently run Speedworld are fantastic, and have a great attitude.

Frank,

Why not move it to Pensacola?

Beave

Sean,
Each of us has our own friends and associates within the jet community. Should it matter whether Frank Tiano or Bob Violet knows us? I go to events like that to be with my buds.
Chris

HI Frank, I have a few suggestions to make the event better next year
1- allow jet flying on wednesday so guys can tune up their jets, don"t forget, a lot of us have not been flying for several months.
2-do not hold Forida Jets the same week as Bike Week, a week later if possible.
3- to stop any fisty cuffs amoung pilots at the flight line, you need a , who goes next menue in place. I personally watched some guys just barge through .
other than that,I thank you for the hard work you did to run the best Jet Event in the World.
Rcpete

Pensacola definitely has a huge facility! There are several here we could use!

I also heard a comment that the auction appeared to be a little skewed..

It does seem a little off to have customers and manufacturers competing for the same prize (if I read that right).

I've been attending Florida Jets since 2002. This years weather wasn't too good. The other years it's been fine overall. I think the comments about changing the date just come from dissapointment. Nothing else. It will go away in time for next years event.

Florida Jets is a lot more to me that just flying. It's also about meeting old and new friends and talk jets.

What was it ET said? "OUCH"

m

Mother nature can be a real pain in the ***** and i have not meet anyone to the day that can control her.

Poor old Frank. Every time he posts here, he gets sh@t on.
I'm sure he didn't arrange the poor weather on purpose.

WOW.......I got $20 that says Sean's post won't make it past 12:00 MST......................[:-]

As far as the weather goes, although many would argue that Frank has "connections", it seems that it is still luck of the draw. But the remainder of Sean's comments, all I can say is HOLY CRAP!

Tailwinds,

John

Seanreit
It takes balls to tell the truth some times.
Thanks for making a stand.
Johnny

CLASSIC Seanreit
Turn a post of information into an attack
enough said

Hey Sean....,
I enjoyed meeting you and I enjoyed our 10 to 15 minute conversation in the BVM tent, and distinclty remember asking you if there was any BVM products I could show you that day.
You sound like you might have forgotton that. I would have been happy to help you unload that cash. Send me as much as you can afford! LOL

Lemmee see here....................$1,000 for 2 airline tickets, $900 for the hotel, 300-400 for food and gas, rental car 400 more, about 100 for misc. stuff, adds up doesn't it?
Hell, I didn't even take an airplane to fly. I spent all of my time in the BVM tent setting up, helping customers, and tearing down after the event.

I had a great time doing that, and renewing old frienships and making new ones........Did you?

Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP

To me, it appears that FJ is just too big for Lakeland. Carrying airplanes throught the grass to the pads sucks. Back in the day at Bunnel you could leave models on pavement and then push them to startup. Flying in Bunnel was much better. Pensacola is setup like Bunnel and they have a crosswind runway. Seems like Pensacola would be a great idea, but I wonder how the weather is at this time of year.
I was in Miami all week before going to FJ and the weather was beautiful. Went to Lakeland and it was crap. Is further south an option?
David Shulman suggested moving it up time wise. He said the weather in January is really nice.
Might also want to consider FJ week. There would be a better chance of some good days out of a whole week. I know for sure I would at least start flying on wed.
There has to be a solution. I just dont see it being as successful in the current location at that time of year.
Didnt fly at all. Still had fun.
I came to see friends, new stuff, support the event and any manufacturors I could. I brought a wad of money, but only spent a few hundred bucks.
I really wondered what kind of money some of the guys from overseas spent to come to FJ.

Sean, although you might be bringing up valid points and expressing yours and others feelings, i dont think here was a good place to do it. Start another post. Frank is looking for help. Lets help him.
BTW, didnt you win something at FJ last year or the year before at the banquet under odd circumstances? OR Maybe it was that you got it really really cheap that stood out to me.
Scott

Would you guys really stand for your sister, daughter, or wife to be spoken to like that? If I don't say it, who is going to? I have no alliance to anyone but myself. I don't blame Frank for the weather, I don't think anyone does. Would a different date give a better probability? Who knows.

Kelly, Seriously?? tell me where I have "attacked" Frank. Sure I tried to bid on something last year and this year. But to be told "F" off??? Is that really necessary? I have 10 PM's, do you guys want me to quote anonymously the comments I've received??

I can't agree more that Florida Jets in the past has been the great place after a long winter to see your buds. That's why I went. But the awards banquet was the last straw. And if I was running an event, I would want to know the truth, sometimes that hurts, surely I have taken enough grief on this site over the years for saying something. When Elda read this thread this morning, she just looked at me and said "What would you do if he had said that to me"?

There are better Jet Rally's out there, and certainly something more mid ground between Texas and Florida, Pensacola being one of them are easier to get to. But I'll never sit through that mess from Saturday night ever again. Personal attacks, this man sent the first punches, and some of you aren't acknowledging that. That's wrong.

Harley, I enjoyed our conversation immensely. And like I said, if it weren't for the mass amounts of free time I have to fill, I might have taken you up on something, my apologies for not mentioning you, but in all fairness, I came looking for you. You are a Jewel in this hobby, and one of my all time favorite posters on this site.

Well,

I meant to speak to Frank about what went on at Fl Jets this year, but we were flying all day Sunday trying to make the $1500 trip worthwhile and I didn’t get a chance to. Since the question was asked here, I’ll respond here.

First, we were told in some of the pre-meet literature that Wednesday would be an informal day of flying. We left a day earlier and paid an extra $200 in hotel and meals to be down there Wednesday afternoon to fly. However, we were told when we got there that there was no flying. No announcement or excuse was ever made.

Thursday was a good day to fly. However, with 8 flight lines, there were only 4 start up stands. We waited in line as much as 15 to 20 minutes waiting for a place to start up when there were 3 or 4 flight stations empty. Trust me, I didn’t let ANYBODY cut in front of us, no matter who they were, but it just took that long for guys to fire-up and get out of there. That many startup stations is simply not adequate for 8 flight lines.

Friday and Saturday were a blow out. Not Franks fault for sure, but that’s the second time in two years that a big chunk of the flying was blown out and every year at least one day has crappy weather. Another time of year is clearly indicated if with $4.00/gallon gas prices, you still want lots of guys to come. Personally, I think this year was likely a bit of a bust financially based on the number of pilots who simply left and the spectators who didn’t show up, so I think the incentive for change is there…

We flew a bunch on Sunday. However, when we made our second flight of Louie’s A10X, the big Hawk was already up and having gear problems. We were told to start, but had to hold because the SKS video guy didn’t want me to stand at my assigned pilot station because my head would be in the video of the gear-up landing. As if after $180 in gas and 14 hours in the car, one way, I gave a crap. However, I waited and after the Hawk was down, we went up as instructed. As we were flying, at least three people walked out onto the runway to deal with the Hawk in the grass. Each time, my son Louie couldn’t see his airplane. Finally, Frank drove his golf cart out there, again cutting off Louie’s view. Totally unacceptable – period. Louie finished flying and I took over to do the landing. I setup for approach and it was announced over the control frequency. I was working the flare when Louie, now spotting for me, said “Dad, some guys are coming across the runway.� The flight line guys succeeded in stopping them, but in the commotion, I blew the flare of the A10X and it bounced, big. The slight cross wind started pushing it across towards the pilots station so I had to dump it, resulting in a destroyed wing panel. The crash was ultimately my fault, but the guys with the big Hawk simply walked up to the runway and were going to go across it until they were told to hold. I have enough flights on that plane that I know that I wouldn’t have screwed up if I wasn't distracted. That pissed me off, to say the least.

One of the Skygate guys was flying his Viper in a completely insane manner. I think that the 360 degree “scale show turn� that the European guys do is crazy at an event with that many people anyway, but this guy was full-tilt boogie right down on the deck coming right at the pilots stations and the crowd. Other guys from Europe were doing it too, but at least they were a bit higher and not ALL the way into the power. Somebody must have told them because they knocked it off later in the weekend. They need to be told that this is not allowed at an AMA event from the start.

Maybe somebody can tell me how it is that US guys are limited to 55 lbs dry, 75 lbs wet, and 50 lbs total thrust (in the experimental class) and yet an English Electric Lightning with two 36 lb Merlin engines flew and if Ali’s Citation is 55lbs dry, I’ll eat it. I enjoyed seeing them fly, and I’d like to see more of it, so no, I don’t want to ban them, but if they can fly at an AMA-sanctioned event organized by the JPO President (I AM a member and a district AVP) why can’t we get similar rules here?

In general, for us, this year Florida Jets was a bust and we won’t be back next year regardless. Maybe in the future we’ll go again, but we’re going to concentrate on the pilot-centered events that are closer like Liberty Bell, Mid-Atlantic Jets, Kentucky Jets, and maybe this year, Superjets South…

Bob and Louie Klenke

The flying site is fantastic......X-winds no problemo....good sticks were flying heavy metal like Huns and Phantoms in 30 M.P.H. winds last year, made safe by the 200 ft wide asphalt and N/S+E/W runways.....

However, I seriously doubt that the Navy would allow it.....it still is an active airport, used for low approaches by the Navy during the week..Mike Mills was able to pull all the strings while he was still an active duty T-34C flying instructor over at P-Cola, but now that he is back in civvies and living in South Carolina.....he is not sure he can even pull off P-Cola Jets 2008......have to wait and see....

There are numeous regulations attached to the use of the facility including endangered species (salamander) in the sandy soil adjacent to the runways, # of big RV's allowed at one time.....I think he got approval for 6 last year, as well as liability concerns with crowds as large as at Lakeland.....

As far as weather, lots of wind coming off the northern gulf as well, and temps that far north can be brutal first week of March, as they have been in November the last 2 years.....The little town of Navarre, FL, via Pensacola Airport is not as easy to get in and out of on the airlines like Orlando and Tampa, making it tough for vendors and guys who fly their stuff in from inside and outside the USA and of course, many hundreds of miles from Frank's home base in Lakeland.....

So let's let Mike Mills do the best he can for P-Cola Jets 2008......hope to see you all there again this year....

Pensacola Jets was great!!! You should have seen the crowd showing up there last year. The Holly field is just 1 of about 6 fields that we have for use!!! There's even a large concrete heli field that would allow takeoff and landings from ANY direction....

Personally, I'd like to see us get a good jet event going at the Silver Hill Navy site, Around 1/2 way between Pensacola and Mobile.

Here's an aerial of spencer field, scroll out and to the NE

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Pace,+...i=map&ct=image

I bet you could get the Helo practice field easier than one of the flying strips.

How 'bout Saufely field or blue angel parkway?? would be centrally located in p'cola.

donate the proceeds to the Navy MWR program and i bet the Admiral would be more receptive to incorporating the practice fields during the week.

lure 'em with a great flying facility, forget the pilot awards, maybe incorporate a gumbo-chili-bbq....hooter / wing house girls whatever....

kinda thinking out lout here gents, just a thought.

For the guys that show up early, there's a couple of nice clubs with very nice paved runways they could fly at until the Navy field became available..

My Florida Jets Summary:

1. Spent a whole lot on diesel.
2. Met some new friends.
3. Todd at Dreamworks left with more money than the Colombians brought.
4. Jason and those guys are the best thing to happen to Skymaster Jets
5. The weather sucked
6. The SAPAC guys and RTI were awesome. Spent some cash there.
7. TBM displayed those awesome Fly Eagle Jet Models, had to buy one and order another.
8. Those London Broil sandwiches were off the hook!!!!
9. Red Bull is now my favorite drink thanks to Skymaster.
10. Tam is the man!!!!
11. Saw a beautiful Mig 29 hit a an endangered bird. Officials wont let Thomas leave the country yet.
12. Bought a TAM EDF F-16 at the auction. Yeah Baby!!! Frank thought I was somebody else.....
13. BV himself out bid me on the damn foamy I wanted. I tried to give Frank 38 cents more than BV
14. I cant believe one of the turbines only went for only 12 BJ's and $800. A frickin bargain!!!!
15. Should have brought the wife. See post 14.

Been going to Florida Jets for a while. I spend my jet money for the year there. Looking forward to next year.
Guys, dont all of you know Frank Tiano by now? Had a ball at the banquet. I will attend where ever he moves it
if at all. Bunnell was an awesome site.

Here's a couple of pics from Pensacola.. You can see how much runway there is behind Rob and his F18.

Here's a bunch of spectators showing up to watch.