OK guys have a question as to my brake setup on my Kanagaroo. This is my first turbine, which I am getting ready for someone to test fly for me, hopefully at MS Afterburner. It is COmposite Kangaroo from Planes Plus. Has Robart 630 landing gear, SimJet 1200 AES, and am using JR 8103 radio. I have elected not to use the speed brake at this time, since I was told it was not very efective on this plane when using a smaller turbine like mine, and in order to decrease weight as much as possible. I can add it later with no problem if I want.
In any case my question is brakes. I am using the UNibrake system which I purchased from Golden West with the UP-6 valve. How do I set this up on my radio? I really did not want to use the knob, but wanted a three postion switch with "Off-partiallydeployed-fully deployed", does that make sense, or do I need to just stick with the knob since this gives me more flexiblility. This is my first turbine, and my first real brake setup. Knowing you can have your hands full landing and managing the throttle, I am wondering how hard it is to try and fiddle with the knob while attempting to keep the bird on the ground and steer, and wipe sweat, and whatever, get the picture? I have read David Reid method of having some partial deployment on the brakes as you land to slow the plane and force the nose down, in order to prevent the Knagaroo hop. I am looking for advice on brakes, and how to use them with this type of aircraft, and to mixing and deployment fetures on the radio.
Thanks
Tommy

Tommy, on the 8103 you can use one or two of the six mixes and do it a number of ways. What channel are you using for brakes?

You can inhibit the knob also. You can also mix the brakes with down elevator. If you go with the "down ele" method, you should use the mix that allows some curve adjustment then it would be proportional to how much down you're giving. Also, you'll be able to turn that mix off with gear retracted so no air is being spent during the flight with the application of down stick.

You can also use two mixes to set them up on the 3-position switch. Use one mix for the center position (light braking) and the second mix for the down or up position (full braking).

It's very easy if the radio was sitting in front of me, and quite a bit harder to explain in writing. Let me know, maybe we could walk through it over the phone.

George

P.S. Are you still building a Facet?

To start, yes I am still building the Facet, it is built, I just need to cover it. I should have finished it out first, but I found the Kangaroo, the price was right and I hear it is a great trainer as well. I am going to transfer everything back to the Facet, but for the time being it is nice to have the engine out so I can readily get to it, since I am new to it and still trying to learn all the ins and outs.
Now back to the brakes. I thought about adding it to the elevator mix, but I can't see where I would be giving it down elevator on approach and ideally I would like to have some braking available at touchdown. Having come from a little bit of full scale experience, I have always used aerodynamic braking on my scale planes, where as you bleed off speed you use full up elevator to relieve some of the pressure from the nosewheel and to slow the plane. So I just don't feel comfortable using the mixing to the elevator. I do want to use the method you spke of with the three psotion switch, and I have the 142 page manual out to set it up this way, I just want to know how most everyone else does it.
Thanks for the info George
TOmmy

Tommy, glad to hear the Facet is coming along.

When I was using an 8103, my brakes were always on the down elevator b/c there were no sliders and I didn't apply any braking for landing. I do believe the majority of people are setting up brakes on the slider switch (10X, 9Z, or 9C). Unfortunately the 8103 lacks this feature.

You are correct about not using down on the approach, but I was implying that you would apply down stick after landing. You would could still do that method and have light braking applied for landing, but you would have to use another mix to apply light braking on landing approach, much like flipping a switch for flaps. It looks like you will be using to mixes no matter which way you configure it.

George

Tommy,

Down elevator is the easiest way to control your brakes. I am using the futaba 9C and have two mixes running. One is on my right slider which locks the brakes for startup and I can apply a little brake for landing which helps slow the plane down once the wheels touch. The other is mixed to down elevator so I can apply the brake proportionaly after I am on the ground. You wont need brakes till the plane is landed, this is the time you apply down elevator for braking, not while the plane is airborn.
Speed brake is essential on the Kangaroo, regardless of powerplant used. Without it, it is very difficult to transition the plane into slow flight for your landing approach. On days where there is little wind you will find it almost impossible to slow the plane down without the speedbrake and you most definitly will encounter the "Kangaroo Hop". The trick to landing the kangaroo is to hold it off the runway a foot or two until it stops flying, it will then settle right in without any hops. Carry too much speed into the landing and you will hop it down the runway and break it. Install the speed brake! Trust me....you'll need it!

My 250+ kangaroo flights worth....

Todd

Todd,
OK Thanks for the info. I was going by the info given to me by The fella at Planes Plus (I'm sorry I'm terrible with names). It will not be a problem to put it in, I was just hoping to get it all together before the 31st. Are you gonna be in MS for the jet meet? If so I would really like to get up with you or one of these other guys who are familar with the Roo and let one of you test fly it, or at least inspect it and make sure it is put together correctly. Sounds like I need to either mix several of these functions or buy a bigger radio...;-)
Tommy

Unfortunatly, I dont think I will make it to afterburner. I am already booked for Fentress on memorial day weekend. I do however suggest you have one of the "Gangs" (mississippi, austin etc) check the plane out before you fly. I am sure Dennis Lott or David Reid would be happy to give you a hand.
BTW, Make sure you use a 80oz+ servo for the speed brake. I had a standard futaba servo on mine at first and It would stall the servo with the brake deployed. Hitec heavy duty BB would be fine.
Best of luck...
Todd

Another servo that works great on the speed brake was the Cirrus CS-80. It costs $20.00 and has 110 oz torque. Also, Dan Massey gave me a great idea on speed brake for mine. I didn't have to do a cut out! http://www.reitmeyer.com/planes/cent...y/P1010012.JPG

Looks like hell (well it got painted prior to flying) but it works!

Tommy,

I have my brakes setup on a slider and will sometimes just set them to partial with the slider before landing for short fields. Down elevator on a hot landing with the Roo would be disastor, I think you can set up a mix using the snap roll switch and or at least the three position switch. I have an 8103 (heli version) the flgith mode switch is in the upper left corner I don't know where it is on the airplane version (switches and knobs are in different places) I know you could use that and setup different settings. Myabe even mix that with a knob so you can adjust the brakes. Either way we can help you figure that out, I know any of us will be glad to give you a hand.


David Reid

Landing the roo and breaking with down elevator would not be recomended. If you have a really long runway it would be no problem. You want to hold up elevator as long as posssible when landing the roo, if you dont, it can start the roo hop. The easiest, most natural breaking for me is to use the slide on the 10x. Hands stay in place. Try to catch a 10x "transmitter only" for sale, i think you will really enjoy it. Sure might keep you from hopping down runway in MS. Definately go ahead and install speedbrake. Slowing the roo down is what eliminates the roo hop. She will get really slow without stalling.
Scott

Thanks, I plan on gong ahead with the speed brake, I was sure hoping it was not necessary after talking with some others. I will look you up David, I hope to be getting there Friday afternoon after work.
Thanks
TOmmy

Definately use the speed brake.
The Roo will slow way down without stalling, and like everyone has said it avoids the hop.
I have a JR 7803 transmitter and have mixed the brakes to elev and also a knob so I can turn on a little brake drag before I land.
Also use the travel adjust and set it to zero for the brakes with up elev.
You'll have fun with the Roo.

The Futaba 9Z and 9C have side "Slide" proportional switches also. That's how I do speed brake and wheel braking on my Roo.

Definitely use the speed brake. we have even over sized ours. we use the 10X with the brakes on the button. works great. and is simple. just lube the brakes correctly and it acts like a smooth stop. we use the BV button. also we have moved the CG forward about 2 inches from where the instructions say. this also helps with the hop-a-roo. another thing we have done is because of moving the CG forward we have max deflection on the elevator. we will be at Mississippi also. look for the Texas flags.

Doug A

I have 55 gallons thru an AMT MERCURY Roo as my first plane that I test flew maiden flight. I use a BVM smooth stop, here's the way I mix and have never once bounced it and it's all automatic without much thought.

Throttle as master Brakes as slave, using a point mix at low throttle stick I mix in enough braking to hold it still from rolling, a few clicks of throttle and they automatically release and roll, back to idle and a smooth stop once again. set switch as something other than land if you want it off during flight. (gear??)

Second mix is Elevator as master and Brakes as slave, mix in full proportional breaking with down elevator. Once again select switch other than land if you want it off during flight. Since I usually am never at low throttle or using much down elevator I mix them as ON all the time and don't worry about using flight mode selection.



With these two mixes it's pretty automatic without worrying about anything but landing. The low throttle stick braking drag is enough to plant the nose down to eliminate bouncing and as speed slows you can still use down elevator to further stop it.. IF you crank up the low stick brake drag higher it looks as if you hooked a drag line on a carrier. Good luck and I can help you set it up on any JR xmtr if needed............