Gordon,

No offense taken although I do feel like a idiot from time to time for even sticking with the hobby after I went through all of this. That being said at the end I am glad that I did because I have met a lot of really nice people. The bummer for me is I hooked up with the worst one in the hobby first.[] Oh well no matter how bad it is it could always be worse.


Ronald R Long

My biggest pet peeve that I see all the time at my field. Someone who thinks or pretends he knows it all and screws up someone else's plane/radio program and then walks away leaving the mess for some other big ego to come along and screw up some more. Plane crashes and no one takes the blame. Some poor guy who really can't afford the loss is now left with this mess while the egos move on to help "solve" someone elses problem.

Good post Gordon, this is what the hobby should be about. V..

<<I think this is a timely reminder to many of us, to take note of how fortunate most of us have been in getting free help from some of the coolest guys on the planet>>

Both of these post are RIGHT ON . Been it this SIG(jets) for about 10 years and I can say 98% of the jet jock are Straight Shooters ,those you can count on for an honest answer & willing to assist without a monetary reward.
Semper Fi

The most amazing part of this story to me is that someone charged another person to teach them how to fly. The satisfaction of seeing the smile on someones face after they've made their first solo flight is payment enough for me.

Marty

It that's true, then that's just WRONG! Everybody who's helped me in this hobby did it for free and I'd bet they did for Kevin too. Turning around and doing it the same way for somebody else (assuming you're not a total numb-nuts) is the proper payment. Charging somebody to teach/help them to fly at the local club field is just slimy...

Bob

The story as posted is Ron Longs side and view point, so take a moment and listen to some other facts:

1. I was unemployed at the time and approached by Ron.
2. I became friends with Ron, and shortly after entered into a building transaction.
3. I built 2 King Cats for Ron, he has not mentioned.
4. I would be called by him to meet out at the flying field to give instructions. This occured usually 3 to 4 times during the weekdays and usually on Sat and or Sundays. These meetings usaully started at 1pm and ended at 4-5 pm. These lessons lasted for almost 2 months. I was not at the field doing my own thing, I went there speciacally on Rons behalf. I spent my time, money, gasoline, and travel time on HIS BEHALF. I carried his plane from my home to the field, and back home at the end of the day.
5. When things broke, as they do I spent my time repairing for Ron to be ready for the next time.
6. For a while we even used my King Cat as His trainer.
7. His payment was not monetary, but the purchase of a P120, which then by Ron got upgraded to a P160.
8. Helping people is one of the nice things about our hobby, please see this is not payment for casual on the spot help.

So please put yourself in this position, would you build jets, repair jets, spend your personal time solely on the behalf of someone who wants to learn jets, meet at your local field transporting his jets during your business hours, and do this type of work over a 2 month period.

Is that person not entitled to compensation??

How much do professional builders charge to build King Cats and install all radio equipment to flyable condition. How much do you charge for your products or services?? How much do you charge for your time when it is specifically spent in a business transaction. Show me anyone who works, not helps, but "works for free" !

Kevin

PS Uncle Joe, Thanks for the insightful words.

Bob,

It is true Kevin was referred to me to help me move the Metal-morph BVM saber I purchased from Greg Anixter. It was a very expensive jet. I think he thought here is my meal ticket. When he finished moving the jet it went about 8 miles to its hanger from there I showed him this star fire jet that I planned on learning how to fly with. He said no, no, no you need a king cat that will be the plane to teach you

How to fly. I said OK next thing I ask is how much do I owe you for the moving of this plane? Next this is a QUOTE. Kevin states ( WHAT WE DO FOR EACH OTHER IN THE HOBBY IS WE BUY EACH OTHER THINGS FOR THE SERVICES PROVIDED) So here is what I will do he tells me. We will order you a BVM king cat I will build it I will teach you to fly and for this I will charge you a jet cat titan. I say ok?

Next Kevin is on the phone to Patti at BVM ordering the king cat all the servos the leads the glue the works and 2 Titan motors with kero start.As I leave his house I am scratching my head saying to myself ( I just wanted a plane moved and now I have just spent $14,000.009 How did this happen. Next he slaps the king cat together in a few weeks and takes me out to fly, Oh I am leaving out that we flew his king cat a few times till his motor needed service and then the new one was done and we flew that. The first flight tire goes rolling off next the thing

Was squirmy all over the runway when you did land (he did not install the screws in the tires next and most important. The servos that we ordered for the flaps had been back ordered So Kevin on his own went to the local hobby shop and bought some JR mini sport servos and installed them. No one but Kevin new this. So here I go doing practice approaches with the flaps down what happens the servos fail

after about the 3rd approached I start to lose control Vin is standing next to us and tells Kevin put up the flaps Kevin does and then next brings it in to land he is to hot goes around shuts down the motor and is still too hot and bounces the plane all the way down the runway through the over run and into the desert. We picked up the king cat in multiple pieces. I should have learned then that king cat had

About 8 flights on it when this happened. I was so disgusted that I bought another one Kevin charged me another $2000.00 to build that one. Don't you think that maybe you would contribute your own labor to build if you wreck the plane to begin with? Oh no next he wrecks the bandit I finally had enough, and parted ways. Even after all of this Kevin in his warped mind still thinks he deserves that Titan

Motor.


Ronald R Long

Yes kevin and if you are going to turn this into a business, than when you wreck peoples equipment you have to replace it. it is no longer a hobby it is you income or should we say compensation. And also Kevin i never asked you to go out during the week you were asking me to go out so you could fly my new planes and burn my Kero and have fun for yourself at the same time lets tell it like it is.



Ron

.

I am here to apologize to Kevin Marks. The information that I got about the free replacement kit was wrong, he is paying some money for it. The details and price I will not disclose, but all I can tell you is that he is paying less then Skymaster USA can get it from Anton.
I still stand by everything else that I said about him, he still tried/succeeded in deliberately cheating a manufacturer in this hobby and to me the amount he is paying is so minimal and trivial that it really does nothing to change my opinion of him. I only posted this to correct a statement I made. I don't like people telling lies/bad info, so I am apologizing to Kevin and readers of this thread if my mis-information re-directed anyones opinion of him.

Oh yeah, I may be wrong about the AMA rules requiring a spotter. Mostly all of my flying is at Jet shows were they are mandatory, so I just assumed that it was an AMA rule. I think it was at one time? I forget now. Anyway, just clearing up some more bad info.....but I think thats about it. Not bad really, for all the crap I said, to only have two errors is a pretty good average.



There........now that I got the apology out of the way.....................I still think he's a LOSER!

Thank you Dave Presta for clearing up your mis information and false statements.



Kevin Marks

Wow....Is it 5 PM yet? I brought enough to share with everyone.

Barry

OMG ... a <gulp> blended Whisky ? And ice ????

Barry you heathen, you need to come visit so that my wife can educate to to the finer points of Scotch. Some Laphroaig, Auchentoshan, Ardberg, Bruichladdich, Lagavulin, Glenmorangie, etc .. but NEVER of of those .... I can hardly even bring myself to say the word ... gulp ... blended thingies.

Hey Barry, is that a picture of you before you ate that bag?

Gordon, I can't pronounce even one of those things you listed! Please speak in Californian Redneck from now on, so we all can enjoy your posts

Dear Anton Lin,

I bought one of your A10-X kits.

The first time I rolled out on the runway, the main landing gear brackets broke.
I ordered a new wing piece for $90 and spent about 4 hours rebuilding the brackets so it would not happen again.

What I am trying to say here is, I want a free kit.
Any kit, you choose, I won't be greedy, but I would prefer the F-4.

I think you already have my shipping address on file.

You know what to do.

Hugs and kisses,
Satan

Kevin,

Did I not give you another $1400.00 plus dollars and the yard clean up to make up the $2000.00. Oh yes I did because you were holding my 5 titan motors my new king cat the rat ass mig and the

new lightning kit hostage. Did you forget that? Also I do pay my employees. Very well I might add ,You do not get it both ways you don't collect money without having any responsibility for your actions

and then blow off the mistakes as (that is how it goes in the hobby) In fact here is a better scenario you might be able to understand. If I take my car to a mechanic and he gives me a price to do a

tune up or what ever. We agree on price, then he some how hooks up the accelerator and brake backwards and as he is attempting to back the car out runs it through the garage and destroys the

car he would be liable. He would not say oh well I guess thats how it goes here you can refill your fire extinguisher i used to put out the fire on your car for $35.00 You made this a business

arrangement as soon as you set a price and accepted payment. Accept your responsibility.

so for Kevin Marks flight instruction it cost me 1 titan motor 1 destroyed King Cat Another $2000.00 to build another one 1 destroyed Bandit Arf and the rip off of some of my cash in a plane broker deal. and a hell of a lot of aggravation Wow sounds like a lot to pay for some instruction Kevin. that you did not even complete.





Ronald R Long

Listen up you bahstads....

Gordo, I prefer a good single malt (usually Laphroaig quarter cask, Talisker 18, or Springbank 10 or 25, depending on my mood ), but went batty trying to find a good pic to post in a hurry.... ask Buck-o-five about what I usually serve up.

Presta, just for you, I've picked up another bag 'o corn...now you can catch up to ME.....Dougie F as well....

Barry

DID SOMEONE SAY CORN???????

You obviously have not been keeping up to date on this stuff. Anton can no longer afford to hand out multiple free or heavily discounted kits in pursuance of his usual policy of buying good user reviews by supposedly unbiased customers, because some Chinese company has had the incredible audacity to copy his stuff, thereby reducing his profits. [X(]

Gordon

Is my F-4 shipping yet?

Ronnie,
Get in line, i asked for help first!!! still waiting 4 months for a reply from SM...
V..

I'm going to the Cardinals game, I'll get caught up when I get home. I just wanted to add one thing, when Ron asked me about training. I told him I wouldn't train him on a jet until he learned how to fly first. It just seemed to make sense to me. nuff said!
D

Jet Legend has just offered to trade me an F-15 and 3 Gripens for the SM F-4.

Is this a good deal?


Anton will rue the day he sent me a weak landing gear bracket in my A10-X.