AMT 180 home made conversion to electric start
02-26-2009, 03:11 PM
#1
AMT 180 home made conversion to electric start
Hey guys,
Here is how i modified my AMT 180 Mercury (which i bought on RCU) from air start to electric start.
ingredients:
- AMT 180
- JJ1800 starter (60$)
- a little CNC work to make new legs (all the credit to my friend and CNC artist Shmulik Kaldero)
- a few M3 bolts
And here is the result. works perfect, and is completely reversible (not that i see why) if needed. only mounted on 3 bolts.
What do you think ?
PS - im also building a nice start box, will update on that once done.
Here is how i modified my AMT 180 Mercury (which i bought on RCU) from air start to electric start.
ingredients:
- AMT 180
- JJ1800 starter (60$)
- a little CNC work to make new legs (all the credit to my friend and CNC artist Shmulik Kaldero)
- a few M3 bolts
And here is the result. works perfect, and is completely reversible (not that i see why) if needed. only mounted on 3 bolts.
What do you think ?
PS - im also building a nice start box, will update on that once done.
02-27-2009, 03:18 AM
#9
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RE: AMT 180 home made conversion to electric start
Hello Guys,
Is it better to go with a JJ1400 bullet to save on weight ? Also why choose the JJ1800 verses the JJ1400 ?
Is it better to go with a JJ1400 bullet to save on weight ? Also why choose the JJ1800 verses the JJ1400 ?
02-27-2009, 06:32 AM
#12
RE: AMT 180 home made conversion to electric start
Sandor,
Thats interesting, i have a few questions if you dont mind.
1. Whats the price for a full auto FADEC (without EDT) ?
2. how much are 2 solenoids to match ?
3. Will the fadec work without the soleniods if i choose not to use them ?
4. how can i adjust the ramping parameters to get the FADEC to match the AMT180 ?
5. whats the price of the RPM converter ?
Thats interesting, i have a few questions if you dont mind.
1. Whats the price for a full auto FADEC (without EDT) ?
2. how much are 2 solenoids to match ?
3. Will the fadec work without the soleniods if i choose not to use them ?
4. how can i adjust the ramping parameters to get the FADEC to match the AMT180 ?
5. whats the price of the RPM converter ?
02-27-2009, 06:59 AM
#15
RE: AMT 180 home made conversion to electric start
Lior:
I did a full autostart conversion on a Pegasus, I used the RPM converter.
The FADEC will run at about $250 US (by itself, no wiring harness, no HDT)
The converter is about $40 US
You can use the FADEC with no valves, though not recommended.
Ramping parameters can be adjusted, I believe you once told me you had a Regal ECU, the parameters for the FADEC are the same as in the Regal
Youl will have to be very careful with starter engaging power values on the FADEC, there is no good contact on the AMT spinner with your bendix clutch, if not done properly, your clutch will suffer from slippage, you will suffer from hot starts and you will wear down your bendix very fast.
I did a full autostart conversion on a Pegasus, I used the RPM converter.
The FADEC will run at about $250 US (by itself, no wiring harness, no HDT)
The converter is about $40 US
You can use the FADEC with no valves, though not recommended.
Ramping parameters can be adjusted, I believe you once told me you had a Regal ECU, the parameters for the FADEC are the same as in the Regal
Youl will have to be very careful with starter engaging power values on the FADEC, there is no good contact on the AMT spinner with your bendix clutch, if not done properly, your clutch will suffer from slippage, you will suffer from hot starts and you will wear down your bendix very fast.
02-27-2009, 07:04 AM
#16
RE: AMT 180 home made conversion to electric start
ORIGINAL: Ruizmilton
Youl will have to be very careful with starter engaging power values on the FADEC, there is no good contact on the AMT spinner with your bendix clutch, if not done properly, your clutch will suffer from slippage, you will suffer from hot starts and you will wear down your bendix very fast.
Youl will have to be very careful with starter engaging power values on the FADEC, there is no good contact on the AMT spinner with your bendix clutch, if not done properly, your clutch will suffer from slippage, you will suffer from hot starts and you will wear down your bendix very fast.
Why do you think there is no good contact ? it seems to be working well.
PS - whats the market price for an AMT air start ECU + EDT these days ?
02-27-2009, 07:25 AM
#17
RE: AMT 180 home made conversion to electric start
It's due to the angle at which the o-ring contacts the spinner, when your clutch engages on the AMT, the contact occurs in a "pushing" fashion because of its relatively flat shape, whereas on a cone spinner (as in any other autostart turbine) the o-ring "grabs" the spinner on its perimeter, I consulted this issue with Bernie from AMT, he was the one who told me what the technique is to allow for a smooth clutch engage, the AMT autostart ECU's use this method. You may have it working properly now because you have a new system, with time the brass channel guides on the bendix will wear out since there is force being exherted on them (from pushing), on a standard auto start turbine this force is not present, once that wear happens, the bendix will not be able to engage.
02-27-2009, 07:30 AM
#18
RE: AMT 180 home made conversion to electric start
Lior:
An AMT autostart ECU will be around $600, and they are big and heavy.
Also, AMT turbines have a relatively heavy rotating mass on their shafts compared to similar size turbines, their ECU's are designed to handle higher amperages on the starter driver so that they do not burn out. This I believe will not be a problem for the FADEC on a Mercury, but on the Pegasus which has a heavier shaft, I had to modify the FADEC with a 50 AMP ESC to drive the starter an ran it at 11.1 volts to achieve the required RPM's
An AMT autostart ECU will be around $600, and they are big and heavy.
Also, AMT turbines have a relatively heavy rotating mass on their shafts compared to similar size turbines, their ECU's are designed to handle higher amperages on the starter driver so that they do not burn out. This I believe will not be a problem for the FADEC on a Mercury, but on the Pegasus which has a heavier shaft, I had to modify the FADEC with a 50 AMP ESC to drive the starter an ran it at 11.1 volts to achieve the required RPM's
02-27-2009, 07:35 AM
#20
RE: AMT 180 home made conversion to electric start
ORIGINAL: Ruizmilton
Lior:
An AMT autostart ECU will be around $600, and they are big and heavy.
Also, AMT turbines have a relatively heavy rotating mass on their shafts compared to similar size turbines, their ECU's are designed to handle higher amperages on the starter driver so that they do not burn out. This I believe will not be a problem for the FADEC on a Mercury, but on the Pegasus which has a heavier shaft, I had to modify the FADEC with a 50 AMP ESC to drive the starter an ran it at 11.1 volts to achieve the required RPM's
Lior:
An AMT autostart ECU will be around $600, and they are big and heavy.
Also, AMT turbines have a relatively heavy rotating mass on their shafts compared to similar size turbines, their ECU's are designed to handle higher amperages on the starter driver so that they do not burn out. This I believe will not be a problem for the FADEC on a Mercury, but on the Pegasus which has a heavier shaft, I had to modify the FADEC with a 50 AMP ESC to drive the starter an ran it at 11.1 volts to achieve the required RPM's
Really, you used an ESC mounted outside of it ? thats interesting. got any pics of your mods ?
RE pricing, i meant to ask how much my air start ECU + EDT is worth (market value for me to sell it).
02-27-2009, 07:37 AM
#22
RE: AMT 180 home made conversion to electric start
ORIGINAL: Ruizmilton
yes, I saw that on the pictures, based on my experience, it is still not enough angle to avoid the issues I mentioned without proper power management on the start-up on an autostart ECU.
yes, I saw that on the pictures, based on my experience, it is still not enough angle to avoid the issues I mentioned without proper power management on the start-up on an autostart ECU.
02-27-2009, 07:42 AM
#23
RE: AMT 180 home made conversion to electric start
Not really sure on what it's value could be, I do know there is almost no demand for them...
I modified the FADEC for two reasons
1) the more power required for the starter would burn the FETS on the FADEC
2) I burned the FETS...
To modify the FADEC, I just identified the driver voltage pin for the FETS on the ECU PC board, I did the same for the ESC, there is one connection from the ECU pin to the ESC pin, power cables are shared, that's it.
I modified the FADEC for two reasons
1) the more power required for the starter would burn the FETS on the FADEC
2) I burned the FETS...
To modify the FADEC, I just identified the driver voltage pin for the FETS on the ECU PC board, I did the same for the ESC, there is one connection from the ECU pin to the ESC pin, power cables are shared, that's it.
02-28-2009, 10:09 AM
#24
RE: AMT 180 home made conversion to electric start
ORIGINAL: digitech
FYI:
these is also a RPM converter to use it with a full autostart from FADEC.
no hassle use the original pickup rpm sensor get a FULL auto FADEC.
and you have a full auto start.
FYI:
these is also a RPM converter to use it with a full autostart from FADEC.
no hassle use the original pickup rpm sensor get a FULL auto FADEC.
and you have a full auto start.
Do you have one of those RPM converters in stock ? i could swear i logged into www.xicoy.com and saw it selling for 20.00 Euros just after i read your post, and today when i went to order it, its no longer listed on the site. [X(]