Another Skymaster Viper
05-12-2010, 03:51 AM
#1276
RE: Another Skymaster Viper
ORIGINAL: kimba
Hi Carsten
I have tried running the Viper on the stand with the wheels up and have found the following (Viper has 160SX new motor)
On my Viper when the wheels are down I close the main wheel doors via the sequencer when I run the motor in this configaration on the stand the Canopy is ok and you can feel quite a lot of air coming in through the noeswheel.(I do not have a bypass).
When the wheels are all up and doors closed I was not game to take it over 1/3 throtle as the sides of the canopy (not the frame ) were being sucked in and I was afraid it was going to break. ( see photos ). So I cut out the air brakes as per photo and made up a frame and glued in some alloy sive wire and painted it all flat black.I then put it on the stand again and tried it. This time with the motor running flat out it only moved the canopy a very small amount so I am pretty sure that it will be ok. Also we should bare in mind that the plane is not in the air so you do not have the forced air coming in but I am not sure whether this would make any difference or not. We have several Vipers flying here and they have not had any trouble with the canopy all are using the Jetcat 160 This makes me wonder if some of the canopies are of a thinner grade on the sides. On my canopy I have put an extra pin at the top of the frame at the front and 2 pins on the sides of the frame half way along it also has a piece of spruce going across the conopy between the 2 pilots. (May be Anton or John could check the quality of the canopies )
Hope this helps Bronte
.
Hi Carsten
I have tried running the Viper on the stand with the wheels up and have found the following (Viper has 160SX new motor)
On my Viper when the wheels are down I close the main wheel doors via the sequencer when I run the motor in this configaration on the stand the Canopy is ok and you can feel quite a lot of air coming in through the noeswheel.(I do not have a bypass).
When the wheels are all up and doors closed I was not game to take it over 1/3 throtle as the sides of the canopy (not the frame ) were being sucked in and I was afraid it was going to break. ( see photos ). So I cut out the air brakes as per photo and made up a frame and glued in some alloy sive wire and painted it all flat black.I then put it on the stand again and tried it. This time with the motor running flat out it only moved the canopy a very small amount so I am pretty sure that it will be ok. Also we should bare in mind that the plane is not in the air so you do not have the forced air coming in but I am not sure whether this would make any difference or not. We have several Vipers flying here and they have not had any trouble with the canopy all are using the Jetcat 160 This makes me wonder if some of the canopies are of a thinner grade on the sides. On my canopy I have put an extra pin at the top of the frame at the front and 2 pins on the sides of the frame half way along it also has a piece of spruce going across the conopy between the 2 pilots. (May be Anton or John could check the quality of the canopies )
Hope this helps Bronte
.
This confirms our findings over here! There is definately difference on the canopy material used among the Vipers, a couple of the older models here, have much better canopy glass than mine and the other "new" ones, including the 4 canopy glass I just received from Skymaster!
You are right about the plane not getting positive pressure on the ground, but the same will happen if you do some maneuvers, and then "slam" the throttle, I'm 99% sure that was what happended for me on my second flight when the glass broke again, I was very slow on a vertical, and then increased power, when I landed, the glass was broken!
Weathering permitting, I will do some flying with mine over the next 4 days at a jetmeeting here, I have just opened the airbrakes (cut the many small rectangels out), I hope that is enough!
I really think Skymaster should do something about this problem (thicker material for the canopy glass)
05-12-2010, 03:52 AM
#1277
RE: Another Skymaster Viper
Ross,
I had to remove some material from the counterbalance to get the surface to rotate properly, and I also had to remove excess paint from the curved platic on the bottom
I had to remove some material from the counterbalance to get the surface to rotate properly, and I also had to remove excess paint from the curved platic on the bottom
05-12-2010, 04:43 AM
#1278
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RE: Another Skymaster Viper
ORIGINAL: Carsten Groen
Thanks Bronte!
This confirms our findings over here! There is definately difference on the canopy material used among the Vipers, a couple of the older models here, have much better canopy glass than mine and the other ''new'' ones, including the 4 canopy glass I just received from Skymaster!
You are right about the plane not getting positive pressure on the ground, but the same will happen if you do some maneuvers, and then ''slam'' the throttle, I'm 99% sure that was what happended for me on my second flight when the glass broke again, I was very slow on a vertical, and then increased power, when I landed, the glass was broken!
Weathering permitting, I will do some flying with mine over the next 4 days at a jetmeeting here, I have just opened the airbrakes (cut the many small rectangels out), I hope that is enough!
I really think Skymaster should do something about this problem (thicker material for the canopy glass)
ORIGINAL: kimba
Hi Carsten
I have tried running the Viper on the stand with the wheels up and have found the following (Viper has 160SX new motor)
On my Viper when the wheels are down I close the main wheel doors via the sequencer when I run the motor in this configaration on the stand the Canopy is ok and you can feel quite a lot of air coming in through the noeswheel.(I do not have a bypass).
When the wheels are all up and doors closed I was not game to take it over 1/3 throtle as the sides of the canopy (not the frame ) were being sucked in and I was afraid it was going to break. ( see photos ). So I cut out the air brakes as per photo and made up a frame and glued in some alloy sive wire and painted it all flat black.I then put it on the stand again and tried it. This time with the motor running flat out it only moved the canopy a very small amount so I am pretty sure that it will be ok. Also we should bare in mind that the plane is not in the air so you do not have the forced air coming in but I am not sure whether this would make any difference or not. We have several Vipers flying here and they have not had any trouble with the canopy all are using the Jetcat 160 This makes me wonder if some of the canopies are of a thinner grade on the sides. On my canopy I have put an extra pin at the top of the frame at the front and 2 pins on the sides of the frame half way along it also has a piece of spruce going across the conopy between the 2 pilots. (May be Anton or John could check the quality of the canopies )
Hope this helps Bronte
.
Hi Carsten
I have tried running the Viper on the stand with the wheels up and have found the following (Viper has 160SX new motor)
On my Viper when the wheels are down I close the main wheel doors via the sequencer when I run the motor in this configaration on the stand the Canopy is ok and you can feel quite a lot of air coming in through the noeswheel.(I do not have a bypass).
When the wheels are all up and doors closed I was not game to take it over 1/3 throtle as the sides of the canopy (not the frame ) were being sucked in and I was afraid it was going to break. ( see photos ). So I cut out the air brakes as per photo and made up a frame and glued in some alloy sive wire and painted it all flat black.I then put it on the stand again and tried it. This time with the motor running flat out it only moved the canopy a very small amount so I am pretty sure that it will be ok. Also we should bare in mind that the plane is not in the air so you do not have the forced air coming in but I am not sure whether this would make any difference or not. We have several Vipers flying here and they have not had any trouble with the canopy all are using the Jetcat 160 This makes me wonder if some of the canopies are of a thinner grade on the sides. On my canopy I have put an extra pin at the top of the frame at the front and 2 pins on the sides of the frame half way along it also has a piece of spruce going across the conopy between the 2 pilots. (May be Anton or John could check the quality of the canopies )
Hope this helps Bronte
.
This confirms our findings over here! There is definately difference on the canopy material used among the Vipers, a couple of the older models here, have much better canopy glass than mine and the other ''new'' ones, including the 4 canopy glass I just received from Skymaster!
You are right about the plane not getting positive pressure on the ground, but the same will happen if you do some maneuvers, and then ''slam'' the throttle, I'm 99% sure that was what happended for me on my second flight when the glass broke again, I was very slow on a vertical, and then increased power, when I landed, the glass was broken!
Weathering permitting, I will do some flying with mine over the next 4 days at a jetmeeting here, I have just opened the airbrakes (cut the many small rectangels out), I hope that is enough!
I really think Skymaster should do something about this problem (thicker material for the canopy glass)
Last time i told you that i also wanted to test the viper on a stand with full throttle somewhere this or next week.
Now i remember that i already did this.
At our field we need to check how much noise the turbine makes, we are not aloud to go over 92dba on the ground.
So when we tested the viper, i also had it on a stand with the gears in and doors closed.
I had full throttle for about 20 seconds and nothing happened to the canopy.(till now and i hope it stays like this)
Maybe i'am lucky and the canopy is also a bit thicker.
Regards Ron.
05-12-2010, 05:03 AM
#1279
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: lage zwaluwe, NETHERLANDS
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RE: Another Skymaster Viper
We tested this weekeind with a Amt Olympus.
on 75% of power the complete fusalage and canopy implode with no airduct.
sorry for my bad englisch
gr Maikel
on 75% of power the complete fusalage and canopy implode with no airduct.
sorry for my bad englisch
gr Maikel
05-12-2010, 05:48 AM
#1280
RE: Another Skymaster Viper
ORIGINAL: butler-campers
We tested this weekeind with a Amt Olympus.
on 75% of power the complete fusalage and canopy implode with no airduct.[img][/img]
sorry for my bad englisch
gr Maikel
We tested this weekeind with a Amt Olympus.
on 75% of power the complete fusalage and canopy implode with no airduct.[img][/img]
sorry for my bad englisch
gr Maikel
there is some suction going on where the front fuse does move when applying full throttle.
Ron tested the same on his 18 kg turbine and nothing moved at all.
still pj is going to make some naca inlet ducts to allow the olympus to breathe correctly
05-12-2010, 06:00 AM
#1281
RE: Another Skymaster Viper
An fairly good article on NACA ducts on the Recumbrant cycle thread, does not matter what the duct is on the facts are the same, it seems the shape and curve to the underside can make a difference, look here: http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisi.../naca-duct.htm from pervious experience if I remember correctly the optimum width too depth ratio is 4:1 and the length to width ratio is 7:1, hope this helps.
Mike
Mike
05-12-2010, 06:39 AM
#1282
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RE: Another Skymaster Viper
@ Sandor
I dont know the right words for the suction , so i call it imploded.
( i dont speak englisch verry well , maar verstaan doen ze me wel)
but you are right.
but stil i think it was a heavy suction .
it needs more air for engines above 200 nwt.
a duct works also good i think
I dont know the right words for the suction , so i call it imploded.
( i dont speak englisch verry well , maar verstaan doen ze me wel)but you are right.
but stil i think it was a heavy suction .
it needs more air for engines above 200 nwt.
a duct works also good i think
05-12-2010, 08:12 AM
#1283
RE: Another Skymaster Viper
ORIGINAL: butler-campers
@ Sandor
I dont know the right words for the suction , so i call it imploded.[img][/img] ( i dont speak englisch verry well , maar verstaan doen ze me wel)[img][/img]
but you are right.
but stil i think it was a heavy suction .
it needs more air for engines above 200 nwt.
a duct works also good i think
@ Sandor
I dont know the right words for the suction , so i call it imploded.[img][/img] ( i dont speak englisch verry well , maar verstaan doen ze me wel)[img][/img]
but you are right.
but stil i think it was a heavy suction .
it needs more air for engines above 200 nwt.
a duct works also good i think
05-12-2010, 11:01 AM
#1284
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RE: Another Skymaster Viper
ORIGINAL: zl1wn
Hi all,
My Viper just arrived, They certainly make a beautiful paint job.
My first question and I guess there will be a few.
I am starting to work on the right wing, to instal the servos, lights etc. However I note that the aileron is top hinged and at the moment only goes up and not down,
It would appear that the aileron is being stopped from going down, advice as to what to look for would be apprciated.
Thanks
Ross
Ali, this one is in your colours and will have smoke and lights etc.
Hi all,
My Viper just arrived, They certainly make a beautiful paint job.
My first question and I guess there will be a few.
I am starting to work on the right wing, to instal the servos, lights etc. However I note that the aileron is top hinged and at the moment only goes up and not down,
It would appear that the aileron is being stopped from going down, advice as to what to look for would be apprciated.
Thanks
Ross
Ali, this one is in your colours and will have smoke and lights etc.
You need to sand the edges of the aileron on both sides, i used a small file.
To get enough movement you need to sand it like a V-shape when you look from behind.
At the top of the aileron i didn't sand to much, but on bottom you need to sand much more to get this V-shape.
In the second and third picture you will see what i mean.
Regards Ron
05-12-2010, 04:49 PM
#1285
RE: Another Skymaster Viper
ORIGINAL: Ron v U
Hallo Carsten,
Last time i told you that i also wanted to test the viper on a stand with full throttle somewhere this or next week.
Now i remember that i already did this.
At our field we need to check how much noise the turbine makes, we are not aloud to go over 92dba on the ground.
So when we tested the viper, i also had it on a stand with the gears in and doors closed.
I had full throttle for about 20 seconds and nothing happened to the canopy.(till now and i hope it stays like this)
Maybe i'am lucky and the canopy is also a bit thicker.
Regards Ron.
Hallo Carsten,
Last time i told you that i also wanted to test the viper on a stand with full throttle somewhere this or next week.
Now i remember that i already did this.
At our field we need to check how much noise the turbine makes, we are not aloud to go over 92dba on the ground.
So when we tested the viper, i also had it on a stand with the gears in and doors closed.
I had full throttle for about 20 seconds and nothing happened to the canopy.(till now and i hope it stays like this)
Maybe i'am lucky and the canopy is also a bit thicker.
Regards Ron.
Did you pass the 92 db test and if so, how far away was the measurement taken?
Our feild is 95 db but it is measured very close. (3m I think) Another feild in the area has gone to measuring at the perimeter (boundary of the feild but has much more stringent guidelines. (72 db). The idea here is to measure what the neighbours hear, not what you hear in the pits. I have been trying to convince my club to measure it this way which I think will be an advantage for the jets.
PaulD
05-13-2010, 12:06 AM
#1286
RE: Another Skymaster Viper
ORIGINAL: PaulD
So ron,
Did you pass the 92 db test and if so, how far away was the measurement taken?
Our feild is 95 db but it is measured very close. (3m I think) Another feild in the area has gone to measuring at the perimeter (boundary of the feild but has much more stringent guidelines. (72 db). The idea here is to measure what the neighbours hear, not what you hear in the pits. I have been trying to convince my club to measure it this way which I think will be an advantage for the jets.
PaulD
ORIGINAL: Ron v U
Hallo Carsten,
Last time i told you that i also wanted to test the viper on a stand with full throttle somewhere this or next week.
Now i remember that i already did this.
At our field we need to check how much noise the turbine makes, we are not aloud to go over 92dba on the ground.
So when we tested the viper, i also had it on a stand with the gears in and doors closed.
I had full throttle for about 20 seconds and nothing happened to the canopy.(till now and i hope it stays like this)
Maybe i'am lucky and the canopy is also a bit thicker.
Regards Ron.
Hallo Carsten,
Last time i told you that i also wanted to test the viper on a stand with full throttle somewhere this or next week.
Now i remember that i already did this.
At our field we need to check how much noise the turbine makes, we are not aloud to go over 92dba on the ground.
So when we tested the viper, i also had it on a stand with the gears in and doors closed.
I had full throttle for about 20 seconds and nothing happened to the canopy.(till now and i hope it stays like this)
Maybe i'am lucky and the canopy is also a bit thicker.
Regards Ron.
Did you pass the 92 db test and if so, how far away was the measurement taken?
Our feild is 95 db but it is measured very close. (3m I think) Another feild in the area has gone to measuring at the perimeter (boundary of the feild but has much more stringent guidelines. (72 db). The idea here is to measure what the neighbours hear, not what you hear in the pits. I have been trying to convince my club to measure it this way which I think will be an advantage for the jets.
PaulD
we measure:
model must be 1.20 meters off the ground
no buildings near 50 meters
meter set to fast
7 meters distance pointing at the fuse
wind max velocity 4m /second
max 92 Dba
Germany :
1.20 of the ground
no buildings near 50 meters
meter set to fast
25 meters measured by abc method
1 x front
1 x center fuse
1 x in line withthrust line
you count all valvues together and devide them by 3
max DB in germany for Turbines is 83Dba
05-13-2010, 01:08 AM
#1287
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RE: Another Skymaster Viper
ORIGINAL: PaulD
So ron,
Did you pass the 92 db test and if so, how far away was the measurement taken?
Our feild is 95 db but it is measured very close. (3m I think) Another feild in the area has gone to measuring at the perimeter (boundary of the feild but has much more stringent guidelines. (72 db). The idea here is to measure what the neighbours hear, not what you hear in the pits. I have been trying to convince my club to measure it this way which I think will be an advantage for the jets.
PaulD
ORIGINAL: Ron v U
Hallo Carsten,
Last time i told you that i also wanted to test the viper on a stand with full throttle somewhere this or next week.
Now i remember that i already did this.
At our field we need to check how much noise the turbine makes, we are not aloud to go over 92dba on the ground.
So when we tested the viper, i also had it on a stand with the gears in and doors closed.
I had full throttle for about 20 seconds and nothing happened to the canopy.(till now and i hope it stays like this)
Maybe i'am lucky and the canopy is also a bit thicker.
Regards Ron.
Hallo Carsten,
Last time i told you that i also wanted to test the viper on a stand with full throttle somewhere this or next week.
Now i remember that i already did this.
At our field we need to check how much noise the turbine makes, we are not aloud to go over 92dba on the ground.
So when we tested the viper, i also had it on a stand with the gears in and doors closed.
I had full throttle for about 20 seconds and nothing happened to the canopy.(till now and i hope it stays like this)
Maybe i'am lucky and the canopy is also a bit thicker.
Regards Ron.
Did you pass the 92 db test and if so, how far away was the measurement taken?
Our feild is 95 db but it is measured very close. (3m I think) Another feild in the area has gone to measuring at the perimeter (boundary of the feild but has much more stringent guidelines. (72 db). The idea here is to measure what the neighbours hear, not what you hear in the pits. I have been trying to convince my club to measure it this way which I think will be an advantage for the jets.
PaulD
Sandor already told you how it's measured at our field, so i don't have to answer that anymore.(1.2 mtr high, 7 mtr away blablabla)
But yes, i did pass the 92 db test.
We are using bigger turbines in the models then recommend, so we don't need to use full throttle to fly and this way we have less noise.
Also this way the turbine doesn't use that much kerosine and the bearings have a longer life as also the whole turbine.
Regards Ron
05-13-2010, 10:06 AM
#1288
RE: Another Skymaster Viper
Thanks Ron and Sandor,
I will propose this as a method to use for the sound measurements.
I have installed a G-Booster 160+ with 18kg thrust so I think I will be the same and only require part throttle for most maneuvers.
There are 2 fields I can fly off pavement that have no noise restrictions as they are already airports but they are 2-3 hours drive away. The local field is 30 min but will have noise restrictions. [:'(]
PaulD
I will propose this as a method to use for the sound measurements.
I have installed a G-Booster 160+ with 18kg thrust so I think I will be the same and only require part throttle for most maneuvers.
There are 2 fields I can fly off pavement that have no noise restrictions as they are already airports but they are 2-3 hours drive away. The local field is 30 min but will have noise restrictions. [:'(]
PaulD
05-13-2010, 01:46 PM
#1289
RE: Another Skymaster Viper
ORIGINAL: PaulD
Thanks Ron and Sandor,
I will propose this as a method to use for the sound measurements.
I have installed a G-Booster 160+ with 18kg thrust so I think I will be the same and only require part throttle for most maneuvers.
There are 2 fields I can fly off pavement that have no noise restrictions as they are already airports but they are 2-3 hours drive away. The local field is 30 min but will have noise restrictions. [:'(]
PaulD
Thanks Ron and Sandor,
I will propose this as a method to use for the sound measurements.
I have installed a G-Booster 160+ with 18kg thrust so I think I will be the same and only require part throttle for most maneuvers.
There are 2 fields I can fly off pavement that have no noise restrictions as they are already airports but they are 2-3 hours drive away. The local field is 30 min but will have noise restrictions. [:'(]
PaulD
much more in reality
secod set the turbine to aprox 14-15 kg more the enough to fly
and see your incredible noice reduction
i am running a p200sx on 16 kg at 89000 rpm more or less
and have 83db
05-16-2010, 12:13 PM
#1292
RE: Another Skymaster Viper
Guys,
Done with the installation on my Viper! very soon maiden will be coming for this baby...... I did a nice cover for my battery system using the 3D printer see the picture below.
Question for you "my experts" how many mm down elavator for full flap landing?
Enjoy the picture and I hope the installations is clean enough for you my experts
!
Gonzalo
Done with the installation on my Viper! very soon maiden will be coming for this baby...... I did a nice cover for my battery system using the 3D printer see the picture below.
Question for you "my experts" how many mm down elavator for full flap landing?
Enjoy the picture and I hope the installations is clean enough for you my experts
!Gonzalo
05-16-2010, 12:26 PM
#1294
RE: Another Skymaster Viper
I got some flights on my Viperjet this past weekend. The canopy now holds up! It helped that I cut the small rectangles in the airbrakes, the engine/exhaust now gets enough air, and the canopy glass is now ok
Unfortunately i fcked up on the last landing, and ripped the gear out of the plane
But, it is fixable, and should be flying again soon
I did all the flights with the wing lights from Digitech, they are extremely bright, and makes a BIG difference when the weather is a little gray, and the plane is not too easy to see!!
Unfortunately i fcked up on the last landing, and ripped the gear out of the plane
But, it is fixable, and should be flying again soon
I did all the flights with the wing lights from Digitech, they are extremely bright, and makes a BIG difference when the weather is a little gray, and the plane is not too easy to see!!
05-16-2010, 01:10 PM
#1295
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RE: Another Skymaster Viper
Hallo Carsten,
I'm happy to hear that finally the problem with the canopyis solved[sm=thumbs_up.gif]
And i feel sorry [sm=cry_smile.gif] for what happened with your landinggear.
I already know how to f.ck up the landing but for me it was also easy to fix.
Regards Ron
I'm happy to hear that finally the problem with the canopyis solved[sm=thumbs_up.gif]
And i feel sorry [sm=cry_smile.gif] for what happened with your landinggear.
I already know how to f.ck up the landing but for me it was also easy to fix.
Regards Ron
05-16-2010, 01:29 PM
#1297
RE: Another Skymaster Viper
ORIGINAL: Jascat100
.....Nose up attitude seems to bring on a quick stall.
.....Nose up attitude seems to bring on a quick stall.
And the elevator is VERY sensitive! (CG at 230 mm)
(I just need to practice
05-16-2010, 01:38 PM
#1298
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RE: Another Skymaster Viper
Sorry to hear of your landing Carsten, hope you get it fixed soon.
I got another 2 flights on my Viper today and my first landing. I'm starting to get used to it now, of course it helps when my caller is Ali lol
Duncan
I got another 2 flights on my Viper today and my first landing. I'm starting to get used to it now, of course it helps when my caller is Ali lol
Duncan
05-16-2010, 01:52 PM
#1299
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RE: Another Skymaster Viper
I hate to brag,- but I got 17 landings on mine. and 2 on Carsten's Eurosport. All in one weekend.[X(]
I'm really getting used to this big airplane and I'm very very happy with it.
and 2 on Carsten's Eurosport. All in one weekend.[X(]I'm really getting used to this big airplane and I'm very very happy with it.
