AndyAndrews

The poll is simple. Once someone has a wet start - no matter how quickly the fire is put out - is the concensis to replace the pipe regardless of the apparent condition or continue to use it with caution.

Thanks,
Andy

Couch Potato

Not sure how to vote on this one Andy.

It would depend on whether it is a single or dual walled pipe, straight or bifurcated, and that power of the engine.

Worse case scenario for me would be a high power turbine and single walled pipe. I would suspect it of greatest risk of collapsing subseqently.

Conversely, a bifurcated dual walled pipe with a low power engine, I would risk it.

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

The question is fixed, there is no right answer yes or no, it depends on the damage if any to the pipe, and depends on who made the pipe and what material was used.  If it's a composite arf Euro pipe, you can hot start all day long and the pipe is good no problem.    If it's a Tam's, even one wet start can ruin it.  Is it a bi-pipe?  They are sometimes more resilient than straight pipes. 

It will take a long time to decipher what will work and what won't.  Best is to take a picture of any discolorations and post it.

FalconWings

My Feedback: (57)

dito what Sean said.

Depends how crappy it is. AT the very minimum, I'd pull the pipe out and check for damage (black charbroiled stains). If you see those it is probably toasted and will eventually fail, sooner than later. On the other hand if it only looks purpleish it is probably ok.

Like Sean said, a good tailpipe should be able to handle many wetstarts. On the other hand, some of the newer Chinese kits are supplied with pipes that are just junk and I would take them out after 30 flights even if no wetstarts have ever happened.

David

olnico

The pipe would have to be taken out and inspected. Any trace of dark blue to black stains from the outside means that the pipe is u/s.

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

David, Purple in the pipe means the metal has lost it's anneal and it is weakest at that color.  Tam has mentioned that on here before.  In my experiance purple is the worst color you can have on a Tam's pipe.

I lost a jet over this very issue 6 years ago.  Wet start, 30 something flights later the pipe collapsed in flight and literally blew the jet up into a fireball.

Essentially nothing left after that.

I'll never forget the phone call to Tam, when he said "You see purple you replace pipe".  I remember wondering where the hell that was in the instructions.  After that, I went with only bifurcated pipes for a couple of years or only exposed engine airframes.  When I saw the comp arf euro pipe, I designed the Megabar around that pipe because it is the most indestructible pipe I have found to date.  If I come across one that's better, I'll go to it. 

KC36330

the correct answer is C:  Fly Eagle Jet pipes are susceptible to collapsing or disintegrating at any time buyer beware.

FalconWings

My Feedback: (57)

Yeap, had a Cermark Tailpipe that turn purple after only a couple of normal flights, no wet starts. I was able to use it for about another 20 or soflights. At that time I just thre it away and had JT make me a new one. The material on that thing was more like Aluminum Foil than steel.

About the purple color, there is a lighter glossy tone that looks like the metal is galvanizing which I've noted happens during normal life. Then there is the dull-flat purple that looks like the thing is charbroiled - that's probably the one that Tam's refering to.

AndyAndrews

Two voting must replace immediately, Reason?

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Ha, that's because that freaking thing comes from an industrial furnace! Light and elegant are not suitable adjectives for Euro (or Flash) pipes, but they are strong!

Bob

KC36330

those votes were by James and Mr DJ

AndyAndrews

Still no reply from the "discard" crowd.  Your opinions are important.  I would like to know why you feel this way.

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

Andy, you have not given them enough information, nobody can tell you the answer without seeing it.  I said the poll is flawed because of this, and you have not addressed that.

AndyAndrews

Its not flawed because I am talking in general terms based on all pipes we use in this hobby. The poll addresses "seeing it" when I state that after checking the condition of the pipe is is ok to use?.. No one can tell without seeing it first. That is the point. If you see it and determine that it is ok, then most are saying that they would continue use of it. Conversely, if you examine it and notice the type of bluing mentioned here or other fatigue then it should not be used. I thought it was fairly straight forward.

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

Andy, if you have determined that the pipe is good for flight, go for it.  If you have a question as to whether or not it should be used, is it worth risking the investment in the jet?  I have never used a questionable pipe since I discovered the problems associated with pipes exposed to excessive heat.

In one of my Euro's, I replaced the pipe 3 times at 375.00 a piece.  This was the Tam's bi pipe.  It's just part of the hobby.  You have not indicated what type of pipe, what manufacturer, what guage stainless was used, how big the fire was, how long the pipe was exposed. 

You have not in any way provided enough information for anyone to determine if the pipe can be used. 

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just telling you that you will not get an answer that is in any way correct without more information.  And if someone comes in here and tells you differently, they are WRONG.   Do you want a wrong answer?

AndyAndrews

no, no, I know you are not trying to argue. I'm not trying to find out about aspecific pipe or instance. I am talking in general for all use. Check the FEJ F-18 thread.My F-18crashed after the 2nd flight because the bi-pipe broke - a pc of it detached from the rear section due to bad welds. The factory is trying ot obfiscate their responsibility because the day before I had a wet start that lasted was put out with my Co2 fire extinquisher within 5-6 seconds.

Its a long story. Basically, I am trying to get a conscensis from the Jet community on whether or not a pipe - no matter what quality, situation, or condition should automatically be replaced everytime there is a wet start. They(James at FEJ)are telling me that ALLpipes MUST be replaced once you haveone singlewet start. My contention is that this is not always the case and the poll is derived to prove this by the experts who fly jets every day and who have had experience with these issues based on personal use and knowlege.

SDCrashmaster

Just rub some grass on it Andy. That's the cure-all right?

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

Well, I have wet start the Comp Arf Euro Straight pipe at least 10 times and maybe more, had flames coming out of it three feet long.  200 Flights later it is still perfectly flyable, and it is 17 shades of every color under the rainbow.

A tams pipe would have needed to be replaced after the first wet start.

alll depends on the construction of the pipe.

I can't comment on the FEJ but I will say that there is a lot of public knowledge on this issue on this site.  A lot of it, I have written.    There are others that agree with me, but ultimately the decision is up to the pilot/ builder/ owner. 

I'm not sure I could blame the manufacturer for this, I did not expect anything from Tam when my first "pretty" jet went up in flames in Florida.  I had no idea this could even happen.

As you see me dive into different things with much enthusiasm, and lots of money, believe me, I did the grunt research on pipes when I discovered they could fail.  Again, I'm always looking for stronger pipes, the weight, to me, is worth it, I'll just put more thrust in, I never want to experiance another pipe failure ever again.  I'm sure you don't either. 

AndyAndrews

not right now Crash...

AndyAndrews

In my case the bi-pipe did not collapse. The rear section that is attached by spot welds came loose. I posted pics of the welds showing where they trailed off to the edge and then had no connection point. This is what caused the crash by general conscensis by all who have commented. Others have also had these FEJ pipes collapse without having wet starts. Don't really know their situation but mine is different. I have evidence (fell out prior to crash) with witnesses.

Silent Lamb

Have to agree on the Fly Eagle jet pipe. Our L 39(small version)pipe collapsed on the second flight. No hot starts.

Zack Morris

Whoa! Good thing I read this thread-was just about to fork out some serious dough for a Tams pipe.

FalconWings

My Feedback: (57)

Just to get this straight, is there anybody flying a single walled tailpipe? Does that even exist?

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

Yes, I've made them, but it's not as good as a double wall pipe in my opinion, although Eddie Weeks' single wall pipe has been working for years with an olympus, so I assumed when when I was not happy with my results, that it was related to my "engineering".

But there is no reason in particular that it does not work right. You're just moving hot air so to speak.

By the way, I did not mean to imply that Tam's pipes are no good, they are great pipes, just not made for handling the kinds of heat I will blow down a pipe from time to time and not need to be replaced.

In some cases, a jet can't handle the extra weight of a beefier pipe. Tams' pipes are very strong for their weight. And really, in most cases you are talking a 200 buck or less replacment, that's just cost of doing business in RC jets IMO.

FalconWings

My Feedback: (57)

OK, I see. I imagine that the wall get's pretty hot then. You could probably wrap it up with a heat blanket right?