I have a question. How is it that they can make an ARF for a Turbine? Well when a person builds their jet, that take pride and care, and make sure that everything is fitted properly and glued well. I would think for $999, it would all be done well, but how can you be sure? A turbine has a lot of speed, therefore a lot of inertia, so at 150 mph turbine could kill a bunch a people. Or in my parts, could start a forest fire. Also, now anyone who has some money to blow can get one of these, that may not be ready to fly one. Am I being overly cautious?
Thanks

Hi Kylen

You pose a very good question. The only way you are going to be sure that the jet is properly constructed is by doing some background checks. In the instance of the DL Aeromacchi, the information is as follows:

Designer: Yves Duchesneau
Design Base: Designed around the proven kit version of the aircraft
Construction: Reports indicated that the ARF is constructed very well, true to the kit version.

Yves has an excellent reputation as a designer of excellent aircraft kits. He has applied these same talents to the ARF version of the Aeromacchi. You can therefore expect an excellent ARF aircraft.

This same process goes for Larry Wolfe and his ARF Hawk. Larry has been designing and selling kits for 20 years. He has an excellent reputation as a designer. His ARF Hawk is no exception.

If your going to buy an ARF, do the backgound on the company/designer and see if your comfortable with their reputation before you buy.

Now, there are going to be ARF kits out there that are going to be stinkers. If you do the background research, you can pick out the rose in the dandelions.

Phew! Hope I got my message across...

Ed

So turbines should only be reserved for the rich? What about the outstanding pilots out there that cant afford a $5000 jet, but are ready to fly turbines???

Thats not what Im saying though, Im saying that normally for a person to be able to fly a jet, they must have many skills that are not commonly known. So basically I figured that normally people would have to go through many planes, and learn a great deal about building. But now it is possible to go directly from a trainer and second plane, to a turbine without actually having any knowledge about them or how they are built.

OK, I sorta see where you are comin from. What you are saying is that you think that if a beginner in turbines is to obtain a jet, it should be in kit form to learn about the construction from the ground up? But to get into turbines the person should have been into DF's first, and some of the construction knowledge will come from the DF expierience.

Hi Kyle

I would disagree to some extent. Jets are not more difficult to build, they just take more time because there are a lot of aspects to them.

On your second point, since you are in the US, all jet pilots in the US have to get an AMA turbine waiver in order to fly a turbine powered airplane. Part of the waiver process is understanding the operation of the turbine powered aircraft. You also have to show proficiency in operating an aircraft that can go 150 mph. This process will screen out those incapable of operating a turbine properly.


Ed

HI Ed,
Unfortunately this is not true. You need a turbine waiver if you want to fly turbines at an AMA recognized flying site or at an AMA Sanctioned event. If you want to fly at a private flying field or on your own property you do not need a waiver.

Patrick.

"But now it is possible to go directly from a trainer and second plane, to a turbine without actually having any knowledge about them or how they are built"

Its not, that's one of the reasons why the AMA has a requirement for you to have a Turbine wavier, and in order to get that you have to go and get 2 CD's of which one has to be an JPO CD to sign a wavier that states they have seen you fly an aircaft that is capable of flying to 150MPH, along with a bunch of other things need to be signed, these people (CD's) are very experienced when to comes to building or flying a jet. I don't think any CD would sign you of until he or she see you fly and complex aircraft and that you show you know what your doing and can fly the aircraft safely. Go to www.jetpilots.org you can read about all the requirments to fly a turbine jet

Now if you fly at a non AMA field you can fly a turbine jet with even having flown a trainer, but a very foolish move and would be putting not just yourself in danger but everyone else around you, second you probably would not have a have a jet for a very long time due to no experience and be probably picking up....no digging up pieces from your jet that just went into the ground at a very fast speed.

Just to clarify, The CD does not have to be a "JPO CD" , he must be a turbine waiver holding CD who has been approved by the AMA to sign off turbine waiver applicants. The CD's membership (or lack thereof) has nothing to do with whether or not he can sign off a turbine waiver application.

Kevin Whitlow

The CD that performs the "sign off", has to be RECOMMENDED by the JPO. This means that if someone wants to be the guy to sign off, he has to be reoccommended by the JPO to AMA. This CD does not have to be part of the JPO.

CZ

Kylenlord wrote:

<<<Or in my parts, could start a forest fire. Also, now anyone who has some money to blow can get one of these, that may not be ready to fly one. Am I being overly cautious?>>>

Yeah I think you are blowing this up a bit. There are dangers with a out of control turbine powered jet for sure. I have one of the arf Macchi on order and think it will be a nice everyday semi scale flyer, sort of like a Roo or HS but a scale jet. Also the cost is low and coupled with one of the small engines (Ram 500 type) for around 2k it would be a super package that will go together quickly. Although there are fire dangers in many states Ct, isn`t one of them. I grew up there and as kids we TRIED to light the woods in fire but couldn`t get much more than the dead leaves to burn!!

Vin...

Coupla points you may be missing...

1) A fair number of people who are flying current turbine powered aircraft did not build them - they got someone else to build the aircraft for them, or purchase a used aircraft.

2) Quite a lot of people have no clue about how to build *anything*. If you were to force them to build their own turbine bird, you could end up with disaster on your hands. Thus, as long as it is well done, an ARF could actually increase safety in some cases, not reduce it.

YMMV,
Gordon

I agree with Vince,
this really getting out of hand. You don't see people getting upset when a pilot hovers his 30lb extra 300 near a crowd swinging a 3' propeller. Typically, most jet pilots don't take unnecessary risks with their models.
It has always been recommended for anyone starting with this hobby or advancing in the hobby to seek out someone with more experience.
And it is true that if you want to fly your turbine in a "PRIVATE FIELD", you do not need a waiver. Although, look at getting a waiver as a learning experience. There's always somebody that can give you good tips on the operation and safe flying of a jet.
CZ

sorta sounds to me like he is saying if you cant afford a high ticket jet then you dont have the skills to fly one either. I have a pattern plane and also a mustang capable of 150mph, if they got out of hand, couldnt they kill people in the same instance as the turbine plane, or how bout a 180mph ducted fan. Speed is still affordable, doesnt have to be a turbine to go 150mph.

Chris,

Well said!!! A lot of guys think that the waiver process is in place to prevent them from having fun with a turbine powered airplane. Not so it is there to help insure that the individual is prepared to operate his airplane, and can do it in a safe manner. It is also a great tool for learning more about the engine, and the dangers associated with it. Proper ground shooling should include the basics of putting out a tailpipe fire, and a fire after a crash. Also the more guys that we have that hold waivers the stronger our voices will be with the AMA.

David Reid

P.S. Any capable CD that also holds a turbine waiver can become one of the recognized Turbine CD's. If you will forward your name to the JPO President Steven Ellzey he or the JPO district rep will contact you for some references and recommend you to the AMA. It is NOT mandatory for you to be a JPO member.

Hi guys,

I think the smaller turbine kits like the BC or Roo with a 500 type motor can be excellent first turbine planes. The ARF Macchi can also go from DF to turbine with only a few mods.

The first post was off the mark a bit because he is not a turbo pilot or has not been to a jet rally to see its not smoke and mirrors that make this stuff work. Maintenance, common sense, dedication, drive what we are doing. I flew my Turbine A-4 at a local show last weekend, the only jet there other than my elec ME-262. I won several plaques, one person was overheard saying "I would never vote for the jet, he has too much money". Yeah, that really helps me while I am flying at 160, but like all of you others who venture "out" of the jet circles and fly the FIRST question is "HOW MUCH". But yet no one asked HOW MUCH the airworld me-262 cost, guess what, the same as an arf macchi with a Ram 500. Go figure...

Vin...

Thanks guys for all the answers. No, I have never been to a jet rally. I would like to, but they are a rariety in Ct.