The Federal government owns and controls all airspace in the country. The individual states have no say in the matter.

The airspace rules are Federal and the employees are goverened by federal laws.

No matter what we do or how we do it they will find a way to make us pay them or shut us down. That is as simple as it gets. Take the seat belt laws, the feds bribe the states with money if they pass the law, if they come across a state that rebels, they pass it as a second offence, then a few years later come with an amendment to make it a primary offence. Yet who owns my car? Are you the property of the state for them to tell you to strap your body into a seat. A Free country! WHERE? 10% of this country owns more wealth then the combined bottom 90%. My old man said it best "They keep the idiots fighting each other (DEMS and REPUB) while they steal everything"

True to a point:
Interestingly enough, Kansas (back in the stone age) and more recently the state of New Mexico have managed to be able to ban on board alcohol sales while over the vertical confines of that States airspace. AFIK New Mexico is only interested in flights to/from cities in the State and not overflights.......

Moral? Don't run your turbines on alcohol in those States.....
-Mike


Motto: Hello we're from the FAA; and we're not happy untill you're not happy.

"Interestingly enough, Kansas (back in the stone age) and more recently the state of New Mexico have managed to be able to ban on board alcohol sales while over the vertical confines of that States airspace."

I worked in Wichita during that "stone age" (no offence taken). I forgot about those days when the State Attorney General would jump out of his plane or train seat to try and make an arrest for serving alcohol. I don't think the airlines or RR every tried to contest it then. They just stopped serving and explained why which did a lot for Kansas PR.

George

yeah right the FAA is gonna shoot my kite down. Get real. Laws are only as good as the ability to enforce them. IMO, the FAA is an unconstitutional entity just like EPA, Dept. of Education and the rest. They can't control what I do on the ground and they don't have enough enforcement to keep a few guys from flying rc airplanes. Let them try. Its a joke. Let them try to arrest me for utilizing the airspace above my property within reason (ie no balistic missles lol), someone is going to get hurt if they try. In Arkansas we exercise individual rights. Our state is full of generations of people who resisted against government tyranny. We have a tradition here. Let them try is all I can say. While they are at it they can try to take our guns away to. Good luck on that.

Are you joking? lol.

I don"t joke!!!

Are you going to shut down the internet along with RCU?

yes I have that control, I can shut it all down, be serious, I said we the jet comm should stay away from posting any negative about jets, thats all, and what are you going to do, shoot everyone.

As the name implies the Federal Aviation Administration regulates every aspect of aviation. This includes all model aircraft that leave the ground, controlled or not. What most people are failing to realize is that they are discussing new regulations not laws. Laws can be a difficult lengthy process with input from many aspects of the government and the people, regulations are produced from within the organization and can happen quickly. The FAA was originally founded for one purpose, to protect the population from the "evils that pilots do." If you read FAR part 91 you will see that these regs protect passengers and persons/property on the ground not the pilot. As far as the FAA is concerned the pilot can do anything they want as long as he/she is the only one going to die. Local and state gov. will have little to no influence on softening the regs. The best course of action is to show that we will abide by the rules, can self regulate, and do not pose a threat to the general public. Pilots during the formation of the CAA (the precurser to the FAA) all thought "this is the end of personal aviation." I think we can all agree that while it did become somewhat more restrictive I was by no means the end of it. Will this change our hobby? Yes. Will I still be able to do whatever I want? No , but then again when can we? I do feel that we will still be able to enjoy our hobby and thrive, just with a few more limitations. Better that then loose it alltogether. I do not condone the proposed changes, but I am realistic in that this hobby is growing as more toy versions hit the shelves of toy stores, and the bigger it gets the more the gov. feels the need to regulate.

i agree with Joe C some people

talk too much , Francis Pischner

very well stated.

Forgetaboutit ! ... This is some serious S#it !!! WE had best police ourselfs,if not Big Brother will []
Even in Arkansas.......
Semper Fi

no but I will surely not simply bend over without some resistance. I guess that I agree with you that there is no need to advertise the negatives of our hobby, the problem is that we really can't control what other people do. To be honest though, I think the first real bad news that ends up making the front page will be one of these cheap Chinese ARFs falling apart causing real damage or loss of life.

Ok Andy, now we both agree.

Sigh,,, I gess theres no more rebels left out there....[&o]

Andy, the "bring it on FAA" stance ain't workin' to anyone's benefit.
I think your fondness of "grass" has reached new levels.
I say this because you actually backtalked Joey Soprano...Ooooooooooooooooo [sm=72_72.gif]

Joey C, the "yes I have that control, I can shut it all down" is about the funniest thing I've read in a long time

Andy,

All due respect, but do you live in this country?? Or more to the point. Did you actually READ the EC minutes?

With regard to the radar gun, this is what I read:

e. Safety Committee

J. Rice reported that it would help the turbine engine community in determining and enforcing the 200 mph speed limit if they had the ability to check speed. It was requested that Council approve an expenditure of 2k to buy a speed gun that would be maintained at HQ but would be sent to major turbine events to let a CD educate members as to what 200 mph is and help them conform to the JPO guidelines. JPO is willing to manage the details and use of the equipment; JPO would cover the expense of shipment.

MOTION VI: Moved by J. Rice (VIII) and seconded by C. Bauer (VI) to approve expenditure not to exceed $2,000 for Headquarters to purchase a speed gun that will be used by JPO for educational purposes only.
MOTION failed: 3-Y; 6-N (I, II, III, IV, V and IX)

MOTION FAILED

Grandfather clauses? Are you kidding us? Under the guise of public safety and national security, those bureaucrats will take the AMA down.........And you think they will grandfather your jets.......Good luck with that.......How many guys own artillery cannons and automatic weapons in your neighborhood?................Wait, let me re-phrase that.........How many own them legally? If we "jet Jocks" or "pylon jocks" or "giant scale jocks" get portrayed as a threat to national security OR AIR COMMERCE..........the end is immediate.
You say that the AMA will tie it up in court for years.......yep sure enough. We will be forbidden from flying while the AMA fights the fight.......How long do you think the AMA could fight that fight against the largest government on the planet? The FAA spends more on toilet paper in a week then the AMA has seen on the books in a decade.

Joe C.........You hit it right on the button...........I have been saying that and getting flamed by a few colorful individuals for years. We are our own worst enemy with regard to PR.............

Tailwinds,

John

Well, one thing is for sure, you California guys gave up guns first. You will probably be the ones to give up turbines first to.

Oh, I just scanned it. Missed the "motion failed" part. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

John, full automatic weapons, suppressors, cannons and the like are totally legal in Arkansas as long as you go through the proper paperwork and background checks. Not so in California. Many people own them legally here including myself. There are over 300,000 legally owned machine guns in the USA. You really don't know what you are talking about when it comes to that subject.

Take a look at some of my friends playing with some of their LEGALLY owned toys - including fully operational tanks. Moreover at the Big Sandy event, these guys routinely shoot down dozens of RC airplanes each day and night during the event:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tDaze3vhhE

Hi guys. This thread was just called to my attention and I thought I would share a few thoughts.

First, I do talk to Dave Mathewson at least once a month. I honestly believe he cares about the turbine community just as much as any other segment of the hobby and we are fortunate he is in a leadership role at this critical time. He and Rich Hanson have been open with me about what they know and the process the AMA is following and I have never had the feeling that there is any risk that they would "abandon" the turbine community.

Second, the FAA is already well aware of the speeds our planes reach, the payloads they carry, the ranges they are capable of and the fact that they occasionally catch fire when they crash. The FAA folks are intelligent people, they have already talked to a number of the manufacturers and they occasionally visit these forums and so those horses have left the barn a long time ago. I think our goal should be to develop the best relationship we can with them, be honest, listen to their concerns and then do our best to respond appropriately and govern ourselves such that they have confidence in us.

Third, to Boli's point, the FAA has to have some degree of confidence that the turbine community will comply with the rules that are agreed to. It is imperative that we police ourselves, comply with safety guidelines, support our clubs and CDs as they attempt to enforce rules and align ourselves with the AMA. Particularly if you fly at an active airport or in close vicinity, now is not a time to have an incident between a model jet and a full scale aircraft, so I would encourage extra diligence in these areas.

Fourth, as you read in the minutes, the FAA is still playing their cards close to the vest. That is not necessarily a reason for undue concern. There is no reason to believe they will ban turbines out of the gate .... that was not the recommendation of the ARC and they have not given that message to the AMA in any form .... so let's see what the proposals look like and how the FAA responds to the AMA proposed guidelines before we react. The FAA rule making processes are pretty well set in stone and we need to be patient until the initial findings are published. What I would encourage us not to do is harass the FAA and build animosity when they have really given us no cause to do so.

Lastly, Dave has assured me that the turbine community will have a voice in responding to the FAA concerns, if any, through the JPO. We have a spot set up on our web site where we will publish any issues and there is a feedback form capability that will allow us to quickly collect the individual input of our membership. Again, we may not need to use it, but are prepared to actively communicate issues and seek input should that become necessary.

Again, I want to thank those of you that support the JPO and would encourage those of you that don't to join up.

That was funny, and I'm not laughing.

Just remember in November.....ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.

Since 2006 people have been voting in the people we have in power now and I still don't understand why.

The current people in power want an all out assault on our liberty. This is just a small example of that.

Maybe in November we'll see if people have learned not to trust these thugs in Washington, especially the ones in control now.

Ok Andy,

Fair enough. A bad example. The point I was trying to make was that if the guys in Oklahoma City tell the guys from the Pentagon in a room full of politicians on capital hill that we are not only a pest but a danger to the public, there will be no grandfathering. There was no grandfathering after 9-11-2001....And we are an easy mark.

We can fight all day long about how arbitrary the 200mph rule is or how heavy a "model" should be, but no matter what, the FAA has no tolerance for those who do not follow the established rules.

John

And so do the results of our actions on and off the flying field right now, no matter who's in office.

We must all be responsible at all times and in all things related to what we all enjoy here in this segment of model aviation for fun.

To think that as this hobby/sport grows, we will not be looked upon to set an example, would be like; lobbying to bring back the F-20 to replace the F-16.

Keep it safe out there everybody, a lot depends on the actions of each of us as individuals and as a group.

In the meantime, I'll keep waiting for the F-20 to come back.