Airplanes400

My Feedback: (349)

It is clear that the canopy was loose from the very beginning of the flight. I could even see the canopy vibrating as the jet accelerated during take-off!

As the jet went into the knife-edge, it appeared that you added more right rudder and caused the plane to climb. This is when the canopy came off. Since the canopy was loose, it was catching air (like a parachute). When the jet went into the knife-edge and then right rudder was added, the air began striking the side of the fuselage (canopy line) at an angle. The rushing air coming in at an angle (instead of inline with the fuselage) caused more air to come under the canopy. That caused higher pressure inside the canopy than the canopy pin can withstand. The result was the canopy being blown off the fuselage when it caught all that rushing air coming in at 100+ mph.

I don't know how this jet is built, but if Skymaster only has one pin holding the canopy on, then they should change it to two pins. As for me, after seeing this, I will modify all my jets with two pins at the front of the canopy.

Edgar Perez

My Feedback: (13)

Guys, I'm with RuilzMilton on this one. I believe the rudder horn gave away, causing the pitch up and subsequent crash. Same as our friend who had exactly that happened to him in his first knife edge with his Dragon.
He like the dragon so much, he got just bough another one, but I can tell you he will reinforce that area.

Meesh

My Feedback: (135)

I'll remind Brian LOL!

Take care!

Bob

AndyAndrews

Regarding not securing the canopy, if it wasn't completely secured it would have blown off sooner (first 5 min of flight) buy the way it was vibrating. Looks like air pressure blew it out causing subsiquent damage to rudder horn etc.

FalconWings

My Feedback: (57)

Allow me help to translate what Luis is trying to state before you world diplomats chew this guy up, there may be a little language barrier here.

When he stated the canopy or cockpit pulled up, I don't think he was talking about the canopy itself, it seems like he was referring to the nose section of the fuselage where the cockpit is. If the section is weak, it can crack and bend upwards vs separating or departing the model............which would explain the ground impact with the apparent pitch up attitude but all parts still attached.
I betcha the model crash landed flat.....as in following the path of normal flight/lift, with the nose pointing above horizon.

David

FalconWings

My Feedback: (57)

BTW, Jeff T you seem like a nice guy and I give you the benefit of the doubt. I purchased an F-16 from you last year but gave up on you after a couple of unanswered emails. I was then forced to deal with Skymaster directly which was not what I had hoped for, but fortunately it worked out. Lately I see a lot of threads dealing with costumers on the same boat, who seem to loose contact with you once they have a problem or need special assistance..........I hope you are getting the message and make ammends.

Errare umanum est, sed perseverare diabolicum.

groovy67

My Feedback: (1)

After watching this video a few times,I agree with Falcon.It looks like the fuse collapsed just behind the cockpit causing the crash.You can see it flexing just before he puts it into the knife edge.Once the angle of attack went to about 15-25 degrees it looks as if the fuse folded.I believe it is a weak spot on the plane that could be fixed with a little carbon fiber at the factory or at home.I don't expect the company will recall their planes but maybe they can make people aware to strengthen this area when putting it together.
Sometimes things get you when you least expect it.It sucks that the lesson has to be so expensive.
Sorry for your loss! Hopefully,Skymaster will work with you and maybe give you a discount on another one.Word of mouth can really hurt a company especially if this is not the first time that this has happened to one of their planes.

John

Joe C

My Feedback: (23)

What I don"t understand is the pilot says he installed a camera on the seat of the cocpit, and then said the cock pit blew off in flight, well if that happened, how come we can hear the turbine shut down and still see video all the way down when it crashes, I would think it the cock pit blew off, camera would of been off at the time it departed the jet.

MNModels

Hi,

Point taken about the front glass intacked and canopy came off- explaining the reflection.

Now this is what so nice about rcu and specifically this threat - speculation. Now if the dragon came out of dive full power with a fte750 turbine across the runway (video show dive ) and then into knife edge, i would think there would be enourmous energy! But now to tell me that the nose cracked (so much that blue sky means at least past 60 degrees) and then continue to be attached to the rest of the jet (shadow just before impact show all fuse in straight line) without the cockpit being ripped out of the nose with sudden collapse of nose section.....now that is something i have never thought about.....

Canopy strucking rudder to brake horn - now that is plausable... Now still - how was the video revovered??? I did not see anybody picking up the cockpit before fire???? Now explain that please?

And to cover for Jeff. He did send the video and e-mails to Skymaster. We asked for more evidence since this video does not proof structural failure in my opinion.

Regards

Morne

tabstein01

Friends I will try to be more specifically it, sorry but English is not my first language:

First the camera that i used for the video was from my cell phone, it was attach to the cockpit, this plane has two, the front and the backward, and has a two pice canopy, one part is in the fuselage that is fixed and the other is the one you can put in or put out, the front cockpit where I place the camera was secure in to the plane, so that is why it did not blow from the plane, the other part of the canopy and cockpit the backward ones, this where the ones that blow up from the plane, I saw this clearly before the plane crashed.

Why or how I recovered the video, well when we reach to the plane, we use our extinguisher to fight the fire and recover my phone, but we were not able to save all the plane.

About to the secure of the canopy, well in order to secure the canopy I have to push the pin to lock because it was a little hard, so I am very sure that the canopy was secure.

This was not my first plane and also my first crash, I am almost ten years flying Jets, this turbine I bought new from Frank Tiano and it past fourth deferents planes.

I receive an email from Jeff Tolomeo and he said that skymaster wont replace the plane doit there are no evidence of structural failure, if the video is not enough evidence of the failure, I really do not know what it is.

I am quite sure it was not my fault, I did not do anything wrong.

I want to thanks all of you for your opinions, I wish this will not happen to any one else.

Fore sure I will not buy other plane from this guys.

Luis Perez

tabstein01

David,

Thanks for the help.

Luis Perez

AndyAndrews

Has anyone else had a problem with the Dragons like this?

SAP_2000

I also remember several post about this guy not answering e-mails after there is no more money to be paid...
I'm glad that we have a SM dealer here that responds pronto also after the money has changed hands.

willig10

Something is definately in need of strengthening in the nose/cockpit area. Either the nose area was deflecting due to wind loads or the cockpit surround structure was allowing the camera to oscilate during high g loads. You can definately see the aft cockpit and the forward hud glass depart the aircraft during the knife edge portion of the flight just prior to engine shutdown and subsequent crash.

I suspect that the fuselage needs some extra formers forward of the mid body to just aft of the nose cone and the cockpit floor section needs reinforced. Again this is just my hypothesis. During flight the camera should be rock solid when positioned where it was. Something is definately wrong with the structure. In my opinion you should have got a new jet.

I fly full scale and RC and am a certified FAA A&P technician. I can tell you that there should be no flex in the nose area at all. It was definately a structural failure somewhere that we cannot see. If the pin holding the canopy failed, the loss of the canopy would blanket airflow to the tail sectioin resulting in loss of control.

my 2 cents

Glenn

FalconWings

My Feedback: (57)

de nada guey, sorry for your loss.

DelGatoGrande

My Feedback: (23)

Luis im sorry for your loss man but there was no structural failure.
As i pointed before canopies pin wasn fully locked all the way in.
What i can do is i try to pull a very good deal for a new one for you but not a free replace.
Just let me know.Take care man[sm=thumbup.gif]

SAP_2000

Looks to me like the whole nose section pitched up. No way the whole plane could pitch up that violently unless the vertical fin came off and the plane was extremely tail heavy.
I'm guessing that just the nose pithed up. Not the whole plane.

My guess is that the plane broke more or less appart at the joint between the nose section and the rear part of the plane. This can happend if the formers for the blind nuts and bolts are not sercured well in place. Pulling into a knife edge, the plane gets a sideways angle of attack and the airpressure broke the nose section from the tail section more or less.
When the nose started to break away, it must have opened a gap between the two fuselage sections letting air inside and quite possibly blowing the rear canopy off a nanosecond later...

My 2 NOK.

Thud_Driver

My Feedback: (1)

The broken canopy parts that blew off surely survived - pictures???

AndyAndrews

George, how do you explain the violent movement of the nose (you can see it pitching up and down) just before the canopy flew off? That part of the jet should not be moving like that at all. Could it be high pressure air getting in from the canopy not being seated properly? It looks like the nose was flexing so much that it released the canopy. I've never seen that kind of movement of an airframe on any video. It makes since though that if this was some sort of structural defect it would show up on other Dragons. I don't recall ever seeing any problems with this jet.

Andy

as722

My Feedback: (1)

I lost my Dragon last saturday as well during a knive edge pass. The left wing came off because the aluminium tab failed, I know because it was still attached to the fuse after the crash. I was lucky not to have a fire so all of my equipment is good except the frame. I e-mailed Anton on tuesday but have not heard anything yet. I will wait a little more I guess.


Albert

rbean2

My Feedback: (3)

After watching the video, it looks to me as though the fuse make have buckled (maybe just in front of the vertical and horizontal stabs?)while doing the knife edge, JMO. The canopy definitely stayed with the plane to the ground. Hate to say it, but very cool video. You can here the fire start, then a small "pop" then more fire. Unbelievable!

Richard

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

Well.. from this screen shot i took from the video of the last shadow visible of the plane before it met terra-firma. their is atleast an intact fuselage, 2 wing panels and a vertical stab all together... My thoughts... That airframe's expiration date was sooner than any others..

SAP_2000

You can't really tell (or at least I can't) from that shadow if the nose section is well attached to the rest of the fuse or not.

How can the violent pitch up be explained if 1: the fin was in place, and 2: if the nose section that contained the camera was attached to the rest of the fuse???
That kind of violent sideways pitch up is just not possible if the 2 points above is OK.

Again, I'm guessing the the nose section with the camer folded sideways (up).

DelGatoGrande

My Feedback: (23)

Hey Andy!

as i explane in my post #21 my opinion is that the shake is an optical ilusion..

cam is steady to the cocpit/system cam+front cocpit its not steady to the airframe.

what moves is cam+cocpit from posible air coming in if frond door it hasnt been used ..

forgive my bad English..

p.s. the funiest moment of the video for me is on 6:17! this ant fears nothing nowlol

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

There is the possibility of a stab section delaminating at the wing leading edge causing the violent pitch up.. The video doesn't do anything but leave absolutely everything up to speculation. Without a video from the pilot / spectator point of view, this thread will go on for ever without any outcome. I'm not surprised by skymaster saying they can't do anything w/o any more evidence of a failure. Granted its most likely a failure of some sort, their just no gaurantee on what KIND of failure. It could of even been a rudder servo failing and going to full throw causing the pitch up. Theirs just to much room for speculation and no hard facts to support them.