New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Hello Everyone

Got lucky and was able to get on the Beta list to test the Eagle Tree Guardian stabilization unit. It's very compact and has some great features. I really think that this might help some of us save a few bent struts, the unit is very reasonably priced and ill bet it will pay for it self the first time you save a set of struts on a bouncy landing.

2d mode, will level the wings automatically and has a heading hold feature, and can be set for auto coordination. If you were flying a big bomber you could also limit bank angle pretty neat stuff.

3d mode, it acts like a 3 axis rate gyro it has 3 axis gain adjustments on the unit, with a master gain on the radio. 3D also has heading hold modes, and a rate mode that will let you maneuver the plane without feeling like your fighting the gyro correction.

It has outputs for, Rudder, Aile, Aile 2 and Elevator. I'm lobbying Eagle tree to add Elevator 2 in a future version.

I was able to test in my Global Jet Club F-4D with a Kingtech K-80 installed for power. Here are the videos of the 2 flights, the first one is very short due to a bubble in my filter. The second one is a full 8 min flight, I have tested the Guardian to the point of over gain as you will see in the second flight where it oscillates in roll. The Guardian even has a auto feature that will automatically reduce your gain when this type of movement is detected.

The performance of the unit is very impressive, check out my bad landing on the second flight. No more bouncy bouncy lol. The best part is the price is very reasonable check out www.eagletreesystems.com it is very close to release a really cool product.

Flight 1 with flameout
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG0QPV0h0SA[/youtube]

Flight 2
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o56t9_CDeBc[/youtube]

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

I saw that unit a few months ago, and wanted one. But... I thought they were already released? Regardless... thanks for the info.

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Thanks Dr. Honda

Nope just about released, the whole first batch is sold out already. It's really a small unit but out performs the Futaba 352-GYA that I had in the F-4D, the unit has elevon, and V-tail mixing built in plus some.

Well it is 1:18 am here in Hawaii good night all, if anyone asks any questions ill try and answer tonight.

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

You are right it needs two aileron and two elevator inputs,dedicated not aux, and if you want to really get clever rudder as well

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Here a demo of a "vintage" 3D stabilization system tested at limits. True heading lock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=sXUeO3auRZg

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

:D

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

has anyone ever tried using the heli 3 axis stabilization systems on a jet ? like the skookum robotics units ? or Futaba 3 axis set up ? im sure these can be tweaked in configuration to be just right for a jet ..

~V~

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Now that's funny:D:D:D

Can you design a system to replicate that!:D:D:D

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Horizon's AS3X is pretty much this if I understand it correctly.

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Gaspar that is just too funny. Chicken steady cam i'm not sure if Go Pro has a mount for that lol.

Wojtek
I was looking at the Futaba 3 axis sbus gyro and it does have a custom menu, however from what I read you cannot reduce the swash plate mixing below 30% even in custom. You know more about choppers then me maybe you could see a way to do it.

PS your turbine chopper is awesome, great job on that!!!

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Here is an other option
http://www.powerbox-systems.com/e/te...o,englisch.pdf

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Has anyone tried this unit?


http://www.readymaderc.com/store/ind...roducts_id=758

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Hi Rich

I think our club president has one of the Feiyu FY-30A units I'm not sure if he has tried it yet.
The power box igyro is pretty sweet nice features 2 aile 2 ele 1 Rudd defiantly the high end.
Looks Futaba has a new 3 axis gyro also.
Good times, it's great having all these choices now.

I like the Guardian It's made by a US company, and price for performance is great $74.99 I bought 3 of them.

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Rich that looks really cool.

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Hey Andy you get one and we'll try it out in your jet at KY Jets ;)

We can program your jet to loiter over the airport:D:D:D

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

I have an email in to them asking if it will work with a JR12x. It wasn't on their list of approved radios.

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Andy
this has you covered: • Any remote control system using the standard of 1.5 ms neutral position.

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

I currently use single Axis Gyro on the Rudder/Tail Wheel on my Tail Dragging Warbirds to stop the Ground Looping and track straight on Roll Out Take Offs; will this Eagle Tree Guardian work for that as well, I like the idea of level flight but Proper tracking on take off is a must.

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Sorry for the silly question but will this work for tailerons as well??

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Hi Dasintex

It should be able to, in 2D mode it would stabilize the rudder like a rate gyro.
In 3D mode it can be set to do heading hold on all 3 Axis.

Do you use the gyro in heading hold or just rate?

I have a ESM Raiden J2M3 in the box but haven't gotten to it yet.

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Hi Pepperpete

Not a silly question. The F-4D i'm flying is using taileron mode with rudder, which is pretty much the same-thing as taileron with rudder so Yes is should work well.

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

I use Heading Hold; typically, after the plane is in the Air I turn the Gyro off; I guess with the Guardian I may be able to leave it on to achieve level flight, since these are scale Warbirds, would give a more scale like flight.

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Hey Andy, if you get this let me know what you think, I was thinking about getting one myself.

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Thanks Gaspar, I pretty much just crapped myself due the funniness and unexpected-ness!!!

How much is the EagleTree stability system???

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Hi Woketman

The Guardian is $74.99

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Wow, that sounds very reasonable!!!

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

i asked ET about this back in feb.
below email answer from ET about use of dual elevator servos and tailerons.

Hi Mongo,

Thanks for the email.

Dual Aileron support is currently implemented. It is possible to do the
same for Dual Elevators, but since the Guardian only has one Auxiliary
channel we have not implemented this feature. For now, a Y-Cable and
mechanical trimming would be needed for the second Elevator servo unless
there are enough people that would like to see Dual Elevators as an option
instead of Dual Ailerons.

“Tailerons” have not been tested with the Guardian but if elevon mixing can
be used, then it should work to connect the Guardian to them as though they
were elevons on a standard delta-wing plane.

Regards,
Eagle Tree Info
http://www.eagletreesystems.com
Ph: 360-544-8543
Fax: 425-484-4131

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Very glad you had this thing going so well Duke, I ordered one after I spoke with you late in April and should be receiving mine sometimes this month! couldn't wait!

Thanks again,
Barry

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Hey Barry

Thank you sir, I really like this unit it has a lot of features and works well. You gotta see this thing recover from inverted just too funny, hit the switch and its upright and level like now lol it's just too cool.

Here are my test results from Sunday.

I was able to load up the PC interface for the Guardian and do some additional testing this weekend. Sorry no additional video my friend was out of town that usually videos.

It was a typical windy day at the field (Kaneohe Bay)

03 16:57 NE 10 G 22 10.00 Partly Cloudy FEW028 SCT050 79 70 74% NA 82 30.08 1018.0
03 15:57 NE 13 G 20 10.00 Overcast FEW028 OVC055 78 67 69% NA 80 30.08 1018.2
03 14:57 NE 15 G 24 10.00 Partly Cloudy SCT027 SCT046 86 72 63% NA 92 30.09 1018.5
03 13:57 NE 12 G 18 10.00 Fair CLR 82 66 58% NA 84 30.11 1019.0
03 12:57 NE 13 G 21 10.00 Fair CLR 80 64 59% NA 82 30.13 1019.6
03 11:57 NE 13 G 21 10.00 Mostly Cloudy SCT030 SCT038 BKN050 80 64 59% NA 82 30.14 1020.2

Test 1: Ability to change, servo update rate with PC software. Most digital servos update at around 250 Hz, most analog servos about 50 to 70 Hz (Guardian default 50 Hz, the Futaba GY-401 analog setting is 70 Hz). In my F-4D I have Futaba S9156 servos on the elevons, and a JR DS368 servo on rudder (DS386 = 300 Hz update speed). I did not know the Futaba update speed but knew it was at least 250 Hz, so I set the Guardian at 250 Hz.

You must be careful when changing this setting you must use the lowest servo refresh rate of all you servos connected to the Guardian. If you had 2 digital servos and 1 analog for instance you would need to set it at 50 Hz, the digitals will work fine at this setting. If you try and run an Analog servo at a higher refresh rate than it can handle it will burn out.

Results: Two weeks ago, at 50% master gain the F-4D oscillated in roll, now at 250 Hz I was able to fly at full throttle at that gain without oscillation. Another effect was now my roll control was much more dampened and the overall effectiveness of the gyro was better. I did feel with the increased gyro effectiveness it felt like you had to really push the controls, this is where direct rate would be great.

Test 2: 2D mode recovery from unusual attitudes.

Method 1: Roll inverted recovery. Ok put Guardian in off position, then rolled the F-4D inverted (1.5 split S high just in case) activated 2D, it very, and I mean very quickly rolled upright and level no overshoot totally impressive, I will get video of this next week.

Method 2: Pitch straight up. Guardian off pulled F-4D into vertical climb turned 2D on plane pushed over leveled out non issue.

Method 3: Vertical dive. Guardian off pulled F-4D into loop on backside of loop pointing straight down turned 2D on plane pulled up leveled out non issue.

Conclusion: Testing went normally, the increased resolution that was available to the digital servos when you turn up the update speed was impressive, settings that resulted in oscillations at 50 Hz were rock solid at 250 Hz. The decreased control authority due to the Guardian working better really made me want to test direct 3D rate but did not have the time to set it up properly so that will have to wait for the upcoming Sunday.

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

List of approved radios? I can't find one.
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RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Its been 4 1/2 months, are there any updates on the ET testing in jets?

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Hi Rich

I have not had any issues, I put a unit in my MB339 to play with the 3D heading hold, that was pretty cool. My friend put it in his ESM 50cc spit it works good in there.

Beyond that I have not had much time to play with it more, works been psycho, and we had our Museum airshow, followed by our Blue Angel show so im pretty burnt.
I'm trying to get my Mig 21 ready to maiden this weekend, im going to have the ET Guardian installed in taileron mode but also have conventional non stablized ailerons to see how that works.
Ill report here if I get it going. This weekend or next.

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Thanks Duke, I'll be interested in the Mig 21 testing, my buddy just ordered a FB Mig 21 from Global Jet Club...;)

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

I have the ET Guardian in some foamies and am much impressed by it. However I do think it hss a definite limit of current since only one of the 4 servo leads from rx to the guardian carries power, the other three are signal only.. The current for all three or four servos goes through one cable which is fine for normal models but I would be wary of trying to run several powerful servos through it.

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Hi Harry

True, ET said it was rated for 5A spikes of 10A
I just got around the problem by using a power bus to the servo, problem solved. In my F-4D I got lazy so I just used my Jomar/EMS glitch buster.
You could also just make a harness that you could run your power leads back to you're regulator, power box, or whatever power bus your using.

I would agree with you I would not run 3 or 4 high power digital servos through the unit.
With by-passed power not an issue, works great.

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Hi Duke,

Did you see any speed related effects? Oscilations at high speed I would suspect?

How the hell are you BTW? Man it has been a long time!! I still remember those fun days at Superman! You guys were (are?) the hardest working guys in Jets!!

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

Hey Matt

Howzit! I wish I was there in BITW. I would be so fired if I went lol; Some of my critical Dr.'s computer went koo koo and my Maui coverage was also on Vacation so I was SOL this year.
My friend Tim made it up there; Woody was trying to make it but could not make it.
Hope life is treating you well. We are doing ok out here, trying to stay sane.

Thanks, we did work hard, not necessarily smarter lol. I learned my lesson it's just too nuts to ups a jet then try to put it back together in 18 hrs then fly. Need to have a rich uncle
somewhere in the mainland.

The unit has a overall gain that you can adjust in the air, if that happens. It also has a automatic flutter reduction so that if it does detect flutter there is a built in gain reduction.
On the ground you can also adjust yaw, pitch, and roll individualily to taylor the settings to the airframe. I have had to turn down roll on most models.

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

I'd be very interested in hearing more about this Eagle Tree used in the larger turbine jets. At speed, in gusty weather or in a large "parade style" gaggle of jets flying in trail, like at jet rallies, there is a noticeable tail waggle side to side in one of my jets. I suspect it's an over abundance of static stability about the yaw axis that gets started in turbulence and a small gyro correction would probably dynamically stop it right away.

I'm using a Smart Fly 10 battery bus and the servos feed from the bus. I could easily feed the signal to the bus via the Eagle Tree going in between the receiver and the bus input to get around the Eagle Tree internal bus amp limits.

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

HI Eddie (edit to add MB info)

I'm flying the Guardian in my MB339 (not needed for testing purposes mainly) It really makes fly more smooth, which is overkill with the MB as I have a Gen1 one that
weighs 43 lbs dry so wind is not a issue at all. I have flown it in 3D heading hold which has also been very interesting, being able to do 4 point rolls with out doing any rudder input just feels lazy lol.

The Guardian did stop a slight yaw waggle that the MB339 had if you flew while really banging the sticks around without correcting rudder. Had the same issue with my Global F-9F it had really bad dutch roll, so I put a Futaba 240 gyro on the yaw, that really helped smooth it out.

Id like to try moving the CG back to try relaxed stablity ie unflyable with out the gyro to see how it flys like that. Might be able to Knife edge much better like that!

RE: Power lead (edit add comment) Great idea on the Smart fly!, after my post on this I was thinking about what you said bout that nice thinking!. I have a bunch of planes with Smart flys that would be a really good way to do it just solder a longer lead to the smartfly input lead.

Ill show you what im doing for the Mig21, tried to save some wire by cutting the power leads comming from the servo and moving them to the connector that would normaly just be used for the rudder signal only.

I used the connector making kits from maxxproducts for JR type connectors for the metal female inserts.

I would have had this Mig21 done already but I have been delayed from work. We are moving to a new office in Dec and its been a bit busy so im slowly getting it done sorry Rich,
Ill report how it works with the Guardian hopefully next week.

Edit:

RE: New 3 axis stabilization in testing
 

I just got one from Barry (KingTech) on Friday... so I'll be testing it soon.