That's where programming comes in :cool:

B.S. you set them to the point where you can take the advantage of them, you're good (actually realy GOOD) , there will be no increased wear on them servos at all, unless you over exsaturate expectoration of the Gyro, they will be your Enemy and kill stuff, just find the sweet spot and it will be a pleasure to get the bird up flying every day like i do

Just one thing to mention her to the NO Gyro guy's, ME in 1972 flying a Schlueter 60 size Heli without any help of any Gyro and only with fixed pitch and bell crank tail mix with a Simprop Super 7 AM (no rates) proportional Radio system flying the crapp out of it ?? I did the R.T.F.I like i still do these days and use any help i can get, It works too every time i do that !

actually there is.. with the demon, you just zero the gain, and its a pass thru.. if it ever failed..


I am a convert.. Im flying the demon cortex in all my toys.. You should see it turn off the wind in smaller stuff.. There are also a lot of jets flying them now..

Its more than just about gain for servo activity.. it depends on the latching and how hard and fast it drives, in addition to the sensitivity gain.. having the ability to set that in the software is sweet..

I would be extremely surprised to find that gyros do not increase servo wear rate, minimally each servo is doing more during a flight than it normally would but with gear sets being around $10 and change time being 20 minutes I don't care, also although I have no info I'd be surprised if it's much of a difference

I have 3 Demon Cortex's and the quality of the enhanced flying performance is really amazing!
Sooo much fun.

I'll bet you the early hell forums sounded like some of you - now look where it took the hobby!

For me it's all about the fun!

:)

Joe

sometimes it it seems like we're in the hell forums here;)

I was asked how much gain I use. So I attached photo of the servo monitor showing the off/low/high settings.
In the gyro menu the values are off/20 percent and 40 percent I hope this helps.



http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=1991078http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=1991080http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=1991081

All,
For a good viewpoint on gyros visit: www.franktiano.com and open the link to Top Gun. Then scroll on the left sidebar to GYRO UPDATE.

Rgds,
Art ARRO

Gonzalo:

Thanks for sharing your experience. I also using the iGyro in most of my planes and I'm really liking it. This weekend I need to program the one I just installed in my Skymaster A-10.

Any differences between the iGyro and the Cortex in terms of performance ? I have two older planes that could benefit of a gyro but I can't install the IGyro so that's why I'm thinking on the Cortex. Also interested on your review of the Guardian after you try it.

My Segway PT don't use any gyros :(

How would one use a 3 axis gyro, if one of the uses is for nose wheel? Eliminate the rudder? Seems like a compromise. Get a separate single axis for the nose wheel? Seems like an added expense

The Cortex has 5 Input/Outputs so you can stabilize the steering independent of the rudder ie: two separate channels

Bob_B is correct! that's the way I have it on my Bobcat and is the same case for the PB Royal SRS!

Gonzalo

Gonzalo, the Cortex works very very well and simple to setup. If I don't need some serious power distribution on my jets the Cortex is a very good choice! I setup my jets with flight mode on the flap switch and the Cortex setup to be at 30% gain at flying mode, 40% gain on take off with one point flap and 70% gain for landing 2 point flap. I do fly using rate mode only an not HH. Those numbers are perfect to start and you can adjust later to what you like. the PBS Royal SRS does the gain automatically due to the GPS onboard. By the way I just upgrade my PB Royals SRS to use the new PB GPS 2. Give me a call if you have any questions.

Gonzalo

The first rule a pilot learns in flight school is "Fly the airplane"

learn to fly the airplane. So NO you don't need a gyro. You need to learn your craft and not let a gyro do the work for you.

But then you would be sacrificing either an extra elevator or aileron function (i.e. one of them would require a Y harness, assuming that you have two elevator servos)

Hey Bob, do you have both the I Gyro and the Cortex?

Can you provide any sort of performance comparison?

I know that the I Gyro has a GPS feature for adjusting the gain based on flight speed, how does the Cortex handle this? Is transmitter mixing the only option?
I guess I will need your help again with the 12FG :p

I'm under the impression that a gyro only takes an inherently unstable aircraft & makes it stable. For example, F-15's seem to have lots of wing area & tends to porpoise a lot, add a 3 axis gyro & it will transform it to fly on rails like a great sport jet.
Aren't your inputs still your inputs? I don't think its an auto-pilot, but have not tried one yet.

Same attitude that permeated the heli ranks. Back in the 70's

Now you will find about as many hens teeth as you will heli's without a gyro. The ratio of 3 axis FBL units is increasing every day as well.

The gyro (especially the Cortex) isn't flying the model, its keeping it stable, independent of wind gusts and such, while you fly it.
As for gear wear, I see more wear in gasser gear sets (w/o gyros) than any of my helicopter stuff w/ a gyro.

@willig the Top Flight P-47 flies so well I wouldn't waste money for a gyro, I just this week did a maiden on one for a club member.

What a load on nonsense, clearly you need to educate yourself on what gyros do and are for, I have and have had many planes that most people won't buy because of their poor flight characteristics and been successful with them without gyros, nobody here fits a gyro because they have to everyone does it because they want to, and if we like it or not most of the time the maiden is a little more challenging with a gyro fitted.
when you post a video of these amazing gyro-less skills that you have flying difficult jets without ever having an issue then maybe I will believe your hype

The only thing "wrong" with using gyros (leaving ego's aside) is they can mask poor airplane setup and you lose some feel for the air a bit like using cruise control in wet and slippery conditions, but apart from that if your plane flys better, you're more confident flying it and it makes it safer then I say go ahead.

The old adage about landings saying it's better to walk 200 yards to pick up your plane in one piece rather than 20 feet to pick up a pile of bits applies here as well, unless you're landing it into a crowd 200 yards away?.

There is some interesting stuff in this thread. My thought is that most modern full scale jets are designed with computer stabilization in mind. I am pretty much 100% opposed to a gyro in almost any model airplane, except for jets and particularly ones where the full scale versions fly using some type of fly-by-wire. I fly in precision aerobatics contests so I am all-for full pilot control of an aircraft. But if an aircraft is designed with known inherent instability traits it seems crazy to me to hold it against anyone for trying a gyro.

I don't fly a jet yet but believe that venture will start in the not-so-distant future. I have started thinking about a scratch built airliner with twin 120mm fans and might grab a 'little' edf jet plane in the mean time. I am sure I'd try flying it (the big one) without a gyro but I do plan on having one basically from the beginning.

The letter is worth reading!

Well put!

Thanks for posting the link-

:)

Joe

[QUOTE=Jetdesign;11793756]There is some interesting stuff in this thread. My thought is that most modern full scale jets are designed with computer stabilization in mind. I am pretty much 100% opposed to a gyro in almost any model airplane, except for jets and particularly ones where the full scale versions fly using some type of fly-by-wire. I fly in precision aerobatics contests so I am all-for full pilot control of an aircraft. But if an aircraft is designed with known inherent instability traits it seems crazy to me to hold it against anyone for trying a gyro.

In flying IMAC or precision aerobatics, do you not consider the down elevator you have programmed into idle at down lines, or rudder and aileron mixes for knife edge to be full pilot control.
For that matter ...are expo and dual rates full pilot control?
I am dating myself, but when I started flying there was no servo reversing, expo or dual rates. I fly IMAC as well as turbine jets now, and I agree that gyros in precision aerobatics should not be allowed,but it is disingenuous to say that you are flying with direct pilot control. Gyros have a use in model airplanes, whether the full size used some sort of stabilization or not

The answer is yes. I have the ice man gyro on my Pitts Python (obviously not a jet). I put it on about two months ago. I have been flying freestyle for 8 years. You can't understand the difference until you actually fly with one. Would it be cheating in a contest, sure. That alone should tell you you should get one.

Like I said before, eliminate all this stuff and save thousands of dollars by simply modifying your jet into a control line jet. Then your only worry is getting dizzy. But there is a solution for that too ... Dramamine.
;)

In a competition there are many variables that attribute to flight scores. One of the most obvious, and probably the biggest variable is the wind condition at different times of the day. On average, the guy that flys in the morning has an edge over the guy flying in the afternoon when the winds are stronger and probably more gusty.

The use of a gyro definitely provides an edge in competition. It also saves your plane or jet from costly damage during a take-off or landing in heavy cross-wind conditions when things go bad. So, the $75 (for the Guardian) to $340 (for the iGyro or Cortex) is well worth the risk to me. Also, not flying in heavy crosswind conditions is another option (which is what I choose).

We start off with an expensive airframe & turbine that costs $6,000 to $12,000+. Our logic is to protect that investment with quality components. So, why get a $50 component when a $250 exists that we think is more reliable? Answer ... we are protecting our already very expensive jet. So why risk all that to a cheap component! As we keep adding to our jet, we apply this principle over and over to everything we buy for the jet. I see nothing wrong with that because it makes sense, and that is exactly what I do.

We all have seen a jet or plane "balloon" a landing, then veer off to one side of the runway (and usually into the pits). A gyro would prevent this.

Gyros are a good thing … even though I don’t currently use them.

Eventually we are going to see flight programming built into our systems. With the use of GPS, telemetry, gyros, and computer programming, we will be able to input data into a sim card that will encompass the entire flight of an R/C plane or jet. We will also be able to record a flight, be able to modify it, then have the plane/jet fly that pattern too. The technology already exists, it just isn’t available for public use … Yet.

There are already systems developed by universities that can record a 3D flight of a helicopter and "play it back." Open source autopilots are available for many different platforms including fixed-wing, helis, and multi-rotors. Combining the two is simply a task for the willing, and able - nothing secretive or overly complex about it.

The two main questions are:

1) why would you do it (i.e., who would buy it)?

2) how reliable is it?

The first question is probably the harder question to answer - what's the market and who's going to pay back the NRE cost that it would take to write and test the code. Even if somebody did it for fun, it would be such a time consuming project that very few people would do just for the heck of it...

The second question is actually related to the first. In order for it to be reliable, it has to be designed with that in mind from the start, *and* it needs to be thoroughly flight tested, both of which have associated *costs* (in time and/or money). If nobody is going to buy it, why bother.

We build UAV autopilots in our lab as part of our research, so I know what kind of effort goes into doing that and what it would take to make one reliable enough for me to put in my jets. For me, no commercially available system other than a single axis gyro on nose wheel steering/rudder meets that criteria - neither do the systems we build, by the way. I'm overly cautious in that regard, I admit, but I do have some experience upon which to base that opinion.

Besides, I get a kick out of executing a successful jet flight on the "bare metal" without the "assistance" of the automation that I work with every day. YMMV...

Bob

Rich I'm always available to help you with the 12FG. NO, I do not have both systems only the Cortex so I can not provide a comparison.
The Cortex is physically smaller and was designed to be easier to set-up. I have never seen the need for speed gain via a GPS unit like the IGyro.
You've seen the HH guys fly with three of the JR 370 gyro they do not use GPS gain control that I am aware of.

What do you mean by "Is transmitter mixing the only option?" Other putting the gain on a three position switch, that's it.

The reference about using one of the channel to stabilize the steering was based on the steering being separate and if you had one of the 5 I/O's free.

Once a Cortex is installed and connected to the RX and Servos. It can be programmed and ready to fly in under 5 minutes. The TX programming would take about five minutes too.

Rich when should I expect your call??? :)
Bob