3D printing a turbine engine
 

Very interesting.. amazing technology and wonder what will happen when this machines will be able to copy thenselves! :)


http://3dprintingindustry.com/2014/1...ed-jet-engine/

http://www.mmsonline.com/blog/post/v...-manufacturing

Well, that is amazing,,, How far technology has come and how fast it is growing,
,HOWEVER,,, it is 2014,, we were all supposed to have flying cars by now,, I want my dang flying car,,,,

That's simple, just 3D print yourself one ;) haha

Nice Enrique!!
3D printing is an great idea, and, as i said yesterday, my first job on this printer, is doing 2 new "callers" !!! but, with bionic yes too!!! to see better if my landing gear down ok !!! ;);)

bst rgds my friend.
waiting for you in our field

jose

Mark

I thought rather differently to you. With all the backing of GE the best they can achieve with a 17 year old design is an engine that looks hardly able to self sustain. I would rather say it was pathetic.

The technology of direct metal sintering is not new technology. What is new is combining the 3d printing and metal sintering. The metals available have included stainless steel and Inconel for some time. I had some sintered parts made for my Sprite NGV mould 5 years ago the material I chose was bronze. The cost of sintering is very high and has not come down over the last 5 years, I had a quote recently. It is not a cost effective way to make turbine parts. The main snag is that the finish is a rough finish and needs polishing or machining.

People get very carried away with the technology but it will only be really useful when the costs come right down similar to machining parts and the quality of the surface finish improves.

John

BAe has already started to make metal parts for aircraft in 3D printing
http://www.baesystems.com/article/BA...3D1dkxgahc11_4

Mark

Like you I hoped that this would provide a cheap method of rapid development using solid models. I draw parts in Solidworks and it is simple to generate a stl file that these processes can use. The cost is just crazy. Recently one firm I asked for a quote for a mild steel part that was 50mm X50mm in a complicated shape with splines and 2 helixes cut into it. One firm quoted a minimum cost of £1,000 for one part. Another quoted £500 and after moaning to them about unrealistic pricing I had to spend 2 days in my workshop using my lathe and CNC mill making the part. It seemed to me that a reasonable cost would be £50-100 by sintering. For companies like GE and BAE systems they do not have to make items to a low cost base like small engineering businesses.

I guess the capital cost for the equipment needed is very high and hence the high pricing. Also the metal powder used is expensive.

John

I can´t imagine a limit for development in this area. Suppose we will soon share in a email some airplane/landing gear/engine design etc.. and then we are going to print the stuff we like in a local printing shop, and probably the same for tools, cars, (some will want to print a flying one, haha) etc..and this is already amazing. And inevitably, probably at the critical point in wich a highly capable machine will be able to copy itself, everything we knew about how to earn a living will change.

Harry, very cool, I also read somewhere that Lockheed Martin is printing complete assembled airplane modules, including electronics/mechanisms/structural parts that "glued" together make a operational aircraft.. and with a incredible strenght to weight ratio, as this modules can be printed in a way that would be impossible to assemble with nut and bolts.. I bet the engineers at the skunk works print their own smartphones in that printer in their spare time...

Jose, you and the guys at SJRP are the best, hope to make the long drive there as soon as I can, and hope you will be able to visit us too!

p.s. maybe you can print a caller like this one.. it is perfect because it is quiet and has a gifted eyesight!

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2048345

+1000 :)

They have a 3D printer capable of doing metal and they still go for an old design. Many parts still looked machined.

Maybe GE developing the Delaying turbine? haha

Well, at least to me seems logical to not put the latest GE engine design in a public video just for demonstrating heat resistant 3D printing capability. :)

And about being carried away, well... is hard to not be, by just watching the sheer beauty of what this technology is already capable of, and wonder what will be capable in a few years. Right now, It is simply not possible to CNC a superb structural design like this. (by the way, is a car chassis) Try to imagine how a combustion chamber may look like with this machines. (!)



http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2048363http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2048364http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2048365

The problem with flying cars isn't producing them, it's getting people licensed to fly them and file flight plans, etc.

(Boy this has to potential to run off in a tangent..:rolleyes:)

John you need to reread what you wrote. Let see your 16 hrs. @ $100/ hr (normal CNC hourly rate) = $1600 or = 1000 Pounds Sterling so what is wrong with their pricing? OR even worse 16 hrs. @ $50/ hr (normal bench work rate deburring drilling taping) = $800 or 500 pounds I would go broke machining for $50/ hr

Mike

As I am retired my labour costs nothing. The main problem was that this item was really too large for my small 4th axis. The part is a dog clutch for a WW2 turbine starter. The cost of making this one part by direct metal sintering would be more than the price the whole starter. As it is I made the part for the cost of some scrap mild steel. It is just so dissapointing that the cost of this new technology is so expensive and does not seem to be getting cheaper. I needed other parts like springs made and was very pleased to get these made locally at a sensible price.

John

So GE is going to start making model engines for us?

John,

You are right, on the surface this seems very elementary for GE, but this just may have been a 'proof of concept' for them; and if so, it was a good one. If it was an attempt for a top-shelve unit, they failed badly, but I suspect it is the former. ;)

I just wish they would have shown more of the process and which parts were actually printed. It also appears they only ran the engine on propane (not sure though), and only running to 33K (idle) would support that if there wasn't any lubrication for the bearings. In any case, for someone not involved in the 3D printing field like myself, it is still amazing to see what is possible even it is "elementary" at the moment.

George

Yes I thought this was Propane only and there was no sign of lubrication. Also the bearings cannot have been printed as the surface finish of the parts would not be anywhere near good enough. As you say it would have been interesting to see more of what was made from the printer and what they had to do to the parts to be able to use them.

John

Enrique,

Yes this technology is amazing, there is 3D printer for several kinds of materials, polymers, metals etc... and several kinds of applications, making tools, molds, parts and so on. We have developing a lot of our stuff in 3D using Solidworks and Rhino and 3D printing in a SLA technology (Stereolithography) using liquid resin and laser, as you can see the results are very good for our application:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2048506http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2048507

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2048509 http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2048510

As you see you can share an email with the 3D draw and have this printed for you in a local printing shop.:)

Want a 3D printed micro turbine engine? Easy, just throw 100,000 USD in the bucket...;)

Oli,

You are right still a little expensive:) also the big area printers about 1m of printing area cost about $ 1,000,000

Im sure as everything the cost will go down, the question is can the US makers get the cost affordable before our comptishion.

Im hopeing in 10 years someone will be just printing out composit turbine rc jets for us with very nice detals, lighter than current methouds, and stronger than current materals.

But time will tell I guess.

But I see the biggest issue holding progress back is copywrite protection.

I used to for a very big speed shop in Houston, and had guy who did the port work on our Modern Hemi motors 5.7/6.1, He would do it all by hand, but as our company grew he got a nice 5 axi cnc, he made a program to get the heads very close to the way he like so all he had to do was smooth it all out. Later that year, our biggest comptishion got a hold of our product made a copy of the head ports, they sold there product way under ours as there was not time invested, just plane old copying someones work.

A little more on GE's process...

http://youtu.be/gu6m7y3cKZc

Absolutely agree with you guys about the costs now, however sooner or later prices will go down, and print shops will be available almost everywhere, at least initially to do some plastic parts, like a new trunion, tanks, etc.. pretty much like this guys are doing right now at a reasonable hobbyst prices.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xPYMDXGyBM

Maybe some years from now, this will apply for metal parts for turbine engines too.


Wagner, that seat is nice.. congrats!

Hi John

I'm semi retired and make a lot of my own parts also but was just confirming that the prices you got were not out of line. Technology costs and a business owner needs to get a return on his investment. Just not like the good old days before computers/CNC where you needed to be a real craftsman. I amaze my employees what can be done by hand and manual machines. Not many of us left. Check out my shop and Have a good day:)

www.mandmprecision.com