RE: Jat Cat or FTE?
 

I'd have to agree with that... how many of us ever intend trying to personally replace the internals of our production engines ? 1% ? I'm not even sure whether we are allowed to do such personal repairs under a production-engine waiver from the AMA.

This would be kinda like me deciding which flat-screen TV to buy based on whether I could freely buy the internal components myself rather than needing to return it to an authorised repair centre. There are simply too many other important factors in the decision, for me to consider this to be a decision-making factor.

YMMV,
Gordon

RE: Jat Cat or FTE?
 

Thank's for the replies guys, this will help.:D
Regards,
avicom

RE: Jat Cat or FTE?
 

Just browsing through some manufacturer webpages:

Simjet 1700 SPP:
22 lbs thrust @ 112k RPM's, burning 8,7 oz./min.

Jetcat P-80:
19 lbs thrust @ 120k RPM's, burning 9,0 oz./min.

AMT USA AT180 SP
20 lbs thrust @ 150k RPM's, burning 9 oz./min. (Smaller enginge than the others listed)

Microjet Enginering Phoenix 30.3:
20 lbs thrust @ 110k RPM's, burning 8,5 oz./min.@17 lbs.

Skypipe X80N:
18 lbs thrust @ 116k RPM's, burning 8,8 oz./min.

FTE T-750:
22 lbs thrust @ 120k RPM's. No consumption-data posted.


Based on this, the Simjet seems to have higher thrust, lower RPM's, and lower consumption than most in this class...

No, i'm not affiliated to any turbine manufacturer, but i know what i'll buy next...

RE: Jat Cat or FTE?
 

I owned 3 turbine 1 Ram1000 1 FTE750 & jetcat p120 . If I DAMAGE my starter assemble or my exhaust cone i can replace them no problem. I admit some guys only can charge the battery or fuel there jet. But lots of us can do these repair with no problem. Just like you mention about the television or cars repairs some people can repair there own stuff. thats why we have radio shack and auto zone not only for mechanics or authorize electronic technician.

Anybody can replace a starting motor assemble or a damage exhaust cone.

Not jetcat they want to do every repair possible. I'm surprised they don't want to change the glow plug or fuel pump them self. getting the engine is not the only problem, But like every mechanical things they break and thats were it get you. parts and laber. $1000 of simple repair. If money is not a problem then you got no problem.

RE: Jat Cat or FTE?
 

Hmmm ... Does a starter motor count as an "internal" component ?

As for some of the manufacturers you mention : Ram & Jetcat ... I am not 100% sure whether Jetcat would sell me a starter motor for self-installation (I think Bob said he would, but am not 100% on that) - but what I do know is that they can at least get that part for me. Unlike when my RAM 500 had a starter motor burn out - RAM themselves could not even get spare parts, and instead redesigned the starter system and told me I had no choice other than to pay about 400 dollars for a forced upgrade to the new starter design - even though the original design of the engine was only a few months old.

So - what would I rather have ? A manufacturer who might, according to you, want to install the starter motor themselves, but who can at least do so, or a manufacturer who can't even get the parts to keep their own engines running, and instead charges me enormous fees to redesign the system ? Gee. Tough call. :eek:

Gordon

RE: Jat Cat or FTE?
 

Hi UAV_95

Interesting list. I'd just like to make one correction. The 1700SPP is actually turning at 115K and not 112K. There appears to be a typo on the SimJet website. I'll make sure that gets updated.

Sincerely,
Ed

PS It appears that I need to watch my typing, sorry for the confusion.

RE: Jat Cat or FTE?
 

Gordon

I'm just simplifying my point by using external parts like starting motor and exhaust cone. Guys who build wrens engines or other kit knows my point.
yes Ram made a big change on there starting motor but which do you preferred a motor that cost $100 or a $15 speed300 motor that every hobby shop have. Rams out the door. FTE use the same motor with no problem the almighty jet cat use the same motor also. So at the time it was a good move for RAM but too late.

And the last time i spoke with bob (this year)about my jetcat starting assy he said he cannot sell me any external parts that sucks.

RE: Jat Cat or FTE?
 

Ed:

Wow.. That's some typo indeed... [X(]

Any other significant typos in Simjet's spec-lists one should be aware of?

RE: Jat Cat or FTE?
 

The starter assembly in a JetCat must be soldered in, and can be soldered in incorreclty (backwards). THere are no written instructions on how to do this. So we are going to get on the phone and explain it to someone we do not know, who then puts it in wrong and blasts us on the internet for putting out a crappy starter?

And of course there are visual and run checks after installation to make sure the motor is aligned propoerly, again nothing written down, and another phone call or 2 when the starter chatters. BTW there is a reason the JetCat starter assemblies are plastic, and it has to do with performance , not cost so things are not always as simple as they are with mud flaps at the auto parts store.

Now the nozzle....if this is not bolted in just right, you can put a preload (distortion) on the EGV ring. When the EGV heats up it will take a set, and now you might start to get rubbing. Another thing with no written instructions, more phone calls and if we have to fix this distortion, we have to disassemble the turbine, and turn the EGV in a lathe, reassemble and test run. Shall we do this for free?

We would probably ship these items to anyone that we thought had a good chance of doing the repair (not a simple BOLT IN) operation. Call or write first to discuss it.

THere are other items that are pretty easy to install like the EGT sensor, and we ship those out sometimes.

RE: Jat Cat or FTE?
 

Hi UAV_95

That's the only one I could see. I don't consider it to be that significant, but I will get it corrected.

Ed

PS please check my previous post, I have corrected my typo, 115K not 155K.

RE: Jat Cat or FTE?
 

Mr Matt

I will understand better if you say that by restricting repairs by customer insure jobs for jetcat employees, Than to say a guy that built a engine from parts cannot replace a jetcat starting motor. Auto zone not only sells mud guard but other component like 1k volt ignition system or radio shack 13K volt fly back transformer no license needed to operate or getting sued by customers. get my point???.

RE: Jat Cat or FTE?
 

When you call us to get the parts are you going to give your name?

Of course there are many experimenters and mechanics that can do the job. But how are we supposed to know who they are? Do you give out your name when you call for parts? Now if they do the job wrong and have a problem at an event, a bunch of guys like you who delight in reaming jetcat any chance they get will have a party.

RE: Jat Cat or FTE?
 

I was too lazy to read this entire post, but i did skim it over .... As for JetCat, I can give you my personal experience with parts, waranties, etc ... JetCat has gone beyone what I would have expected from any manufacturer as in terms of service, and support. I have 6 jetcat turbines (3 heli ) and because of the level of service I would never go to another manufacturer , with the only exception being if Jetcat does not carry a comprable product .. I know I have mentioned this one before, but i think its appropriate to share my experience here again .... I had purchased one of the early HP5 heli mechanics from Jetcat, and had a belt failure (it had an old style belt and bearing block which are now redesigned and 100% reliable) in flight, causing the helicopter to crash, the turbine looked like it was beaten with a baseball bat ! and the frames were mangled. JetCat replaced the $4500 unit at no cost to me !! I have NEVER heard of any other manufacturer providing such a level of support behind their product !!

I know other manufacturers turbines are also very reliable and high quality, but the team at JetCatUSA is like no other manufacturer can offer.



Wojtek

RE: Jat Cat or FTE?
 

Mr Matt

My name is on file . This is about the fourth time my engine repaired by jetcat with good returns no problem. But for simple repairs i'm getting screwed. And trust me i get over charge for some simple repair all because they would not sell me the parts. So i'm selling my P120 TO A FRIEND hope he have better luck.

I am not attacking jetcat just can't afford the unnecessary charges i can do my self.

RE: Jat Cat or FTE?
 

Well maybe we can work something out. Do you need parts now? What repairs are you haveing trouble with?

RE: Jat Cat or FTE?
 

Unknown,
Just curious.....What kind of problems are you having that you need to keep sending your jetcat in? I currently own three Jetcats, combined I have over 700 runs on them. I have only had one minor problem with my P-80, front PC board failure and one thermocouple failure on a 120. Other than my own induced issues, these engines have been almost flawless.....
Todd

RE: Jat Cat or FTE?
 

First repair was ecu burning the plug. Second was in a crash. third was fuel pump stop working. I know it was the pump but they said to send it anyway. last was dead stick landing plane broke in two. dent the can and damage the starter assy. I'm not saying its jetcat fault.
i just want to change simple parts my self.

Mr matt i spoke to carlos at the jet meet this week. its cheaper to take it to him in miami than to send it. So he will fix it before i sell it.

Remember i'm not saying there service is not good. I just want to change simple parts without any problem

RE: Jat Cat or FTE?
 

Adding up your initial complaint about Jetcat not allowing you to "buy any internal parts", with the above info that something was wrong with the ECU - are you claiming that the manufacturer should somehow help you take the ECU apart and send you internal ECU parts to make repairs ?

Gordon

RE: Jat Cat or FTE?
 

But that's the point..... What you assess as being "Simple Parts" you wish to change yourself can cause further failures if not installed properly (are you a trained jetcat repair tecnician?). In addition, for that engine to remain "Legal" by following AMA rules, the engine must be check by a qualified service technician after any crash!

Quote from AMA document 513 SAFETY REGULATIONS FOR FIXED/ROTARY WING MODEL
AIRCRAFT GAS TURBINES
"Any engine involved in a crash where high G loads were probable must be examined and
certified as safe to operate by a manufacturer approved service center before operating
and flying again."
Therefore you must have your engine checked and repaired by a manufacturer approved service center, you cannot service a manufactured engine yourself. If you had built the engine this would be legal but since it is a manufactured turbine you are REQUIRED to have the engine serviced regardless of brand....

Todd

RE: Jat Cat or FTE?
 

Well what are the repairs? Do you want me to help or not?

RE: Jat Cat or FTE?
 

Gordon yes i did replace the shorted transistor in the ecu. And lov2fly yes i'm FCC qualified service technician. And yes i'm a authorize turbine repair technician listed in the ama. Why it always come to this

RE: Jat Cat or FTE?
 

Unknown, if that's the case then jetcat should be fully aware of YOUR qualifications to service a jetcat engine. Not trying to bust your balls, just indicating what the rules are!
"And yes i'm a authorize turbine repair technician listed in the ama"

Where? Under what document??

Todd

RE: Jat Cat or FTE?
 

Avicom,

I am running two P-120s` and a Ram 750p. The jetcat motors and service imo are second to none. My 750p is one of the original Ram motors that Carlos has updated and it starts and runs VERY strong, everytime. It feels much like my 120 in power with very crisp spool ups. If FTE is putting out this type of product then the 750p a good value.
V..

RE: Jat Cat or FTE?
 

I don't know where you heard that it's cheaper to send it to me b/c I charge the same prices as JetCat does. The idea of having an authorized JetCat repair station in the east coast is not to compete with JetCat USA but to work as a team and alleviate their work load and to be able to give support to the pilots at the jet rallies that I attend.

RE: Jat Cat or FTE?
 

Maybe because you refuse to identify yourself, and consequently we basically have no idea whether you are some super-duper ultra-qualified, AMA-approved-to-do-anything-you-like genius, or just some young kid who has seen a photo of a turbine in a book somewhere, picked up a severely damaged engine from some source, and now thinks he's qualified to do anything to fix it himself. Yes, that's a slight exaggeration, but I think you get the point.

If you are hugely qualified, AMA approved to do repairs to Jetcats, FCC approved, FBI approved, looked up to by the CIA and all that kinda stuff ;), then why not just identify yourself to Jetcat with proof of the above, since Matt has already suggested that he may be willing to try to help you get certain parts. If you are neither able nor willing to do that, then IMO you can't blame Jetcat for that failing.

Gordon