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Alpha 4 as a field charger
Matt,
Just wondering why you don't care for the Alpha 4 as a field charger? Gene |
jet chargers
I quit using the AstroFlight because the 110D often
went into some weird low current charge mode where the current can not be above ~0.5 amps. And as you charge the current drops. Lots of emails and no help from Astro Flight. Phil Nuza smoked two of them and I have a dead one also. Rickman's 110D also started this only on some packs. Sirius, claims to condition cells, remove memory etc. Whats your opinion of it? How can Sirius "Condition" cells when not even Sanyo knows how. I think its total BS. If there was a way to do all that, every charger would have it. There is a charging mode where there is a rev pulse. where you charge then discharge a little, charge then discharge a little ect.... This was patented, but when the paten was up, a lot of big companies tested it and found it did nothing. Did not help. Did not hurt. More BS Eddie Weeks http://www.corpcomp.com/weeks1/ |
Re: Alpha 4 as a field charger
Originally posted by Dustflyer Matt, Just wondering why you don't care for the Alpha 4 as a field charger? Gene As I said I have 2 of the Alpha 4s. They are very powerful (feature wise that is). As David mentioned, they can only output a total of 1 amp. When I charge at the field, I am usually putting out about 5.6 amps. As Eddie said it is really the turn around time on the plane you are looking for. I like to be able to jump at a flying opportunity, so I like to be charged and fueled as fast as I can. |
jet chargers
Ditto Matt's comments I like to be able to fly alot as well and don't want to have to wait 2 hours while I charge 3 packs. (Litco) Chris are you using the Schultze that looks just like the Graupner or are you using one of the sho'nuff big daddies that looks like it could even fly your plane for you? What does the RS 232 function do for you, what information does it spit out? Is the software standalone or do you have to import it in to a spreadsheet or what? What does the top-o-the line Schultze do that the others do not? Did you also mean that you could charge 2 packs at once with the one you are using?
Enquiring minds want to know??? DR |
Schulze
David,
The rs-232 allows you to take Volatage and current data while the pack is either charging or discharging. The discharge would seem most useful. Although I haven't done the comparison, it could be used to compare a new pack to its capacity and dropoff after its been used for some time. The software is stand alone- no importing or fiddling. I use the Schulzes that look like the Graupners in drag (hot pink wires). The bigger ones do more cells for someone who needs to charge 40 cells at higher currents. They are 3x the price and don't really add much functionality for what we need. The really high end one has a nice onscreen graphing capability. Charging two packs is possible but is limited in that the second output is constant current. At least it can be set for 5 cells whereas the Graupner cannot. I don't use this output much since I am normally charging on the way to the field or between flights and I want the fastest charge-two Schulzes are better than 1. Chris |
Alpha question for Matt
Matt,
Are you saying with the Apha 4 if you are charging three packs simultaneously you would only be getting a 333 mah charge rate into each? |
Re: Chargers
Originally posted by Dustflyer Sirius also make la little known but limited edition model called the "Quad Charger." It charges 4 packs simultaneouly (3 RX and 1 TX), each at a 1 amp rate. Works off 12 volt or AC with built in power cord. Expensive at around $350. Gordon |
jet chargers
Dustflyer,
If you are only charging 3 packs BUT have the fourth port programmed you are only charging at 250 ma charge rate. If you are charging 2 packs and only 2 ports programmed you are charging at 500 ma charge rate. Charge rate on the Litco is tied to the number of ports programmed NOT the number of packs attached, and divided equally among those ports. DR Chris, Is the display in english like the newest versions of the Graupner or do I have to brush up on my German again? I am thinking I need one...LOL |
Re: The Best Charger
Originally posted by aptar Silver182, aptar in red Silver182 in blue I have to disagree with you that either of the ones you mention are the best. The fact that you can order them today and have them delivered fairly soon says nothing about whether the charger is the best. Now an admission. I have no other knowledge of the two chargers you mentioned other than what I can read on the two web links you provided. So, if I have misinterpreted any of the data on your two recommendations please set me straight Lets start with the Microlader as a field charger. You would need 4 of them to do what one Alpha four can do as a field fast charger. Where does one plug four Microladers in at the flying field? Now, just a guesstimate of the dollar versus the Euro at todays exchange rate tells me that each one of these Microladers is somewhere in the $170 range. It also appears to be only usable from a 12 volt power source which makes them pretty useless for charging in the workshop but I guess you could add to the price by purchasing some kind of additional household to 12 volt transformer to make them work from household current. Well, (4) that would be over kill for sure, the Orbit is so quick you really only need one to maintain all four batteries. Two would be perfect that's why I suggested two --------- I will admit also I have not used the "Alpha four" but if it is true one amp is Max it is useless for a turbine bird. I punch-em at 3.5 amps for top offs, during a one day session. The Orbit is totally smart, it even tells you when to go to the craper-----not really, but almost -----I like the Germans since of humor " Hey you voltage low" "Waiting for battery" etc. etc. -------- it just works, It will even quick charge your 12v air-pump battery as long as your source power supply is a little stronger than the 7 amp sealed type --------- Now, for the Ultimate Charger II. Charging eight batteries sounds great. But when you read the specs, it has eight "channels", none of which are fully functional channels. They appear to do only one thing per channel. In fact, here is the listed functions from the website: Nope, you got the Ultimate all wrong, it handles 1 to 8 batteries completely. Any ma up to 3000 voltages up to 12v. Plug-em in and walk away come back as soon as 8 hours on all eight packs and they are ready. Dr. Suding doesn't believe in quick charges but his quick is 8 hours, his Rapid is 12 hours, and normal is 16 hours. So this one is used always for over night and then it maintains them for years ---------Any Voltage up to 12v and up to 3000 ma or anywhere in-between. I most like it because I can totally charge two complete turbine birds overnight with his one Ultimate II charger. Plugged into my truck battery is enough and the next morning ever thing is ready that includes my Duralite lithium --------I use his "Voltage shunt" @ an extra cost of about 3 dollars for the lithium's. The list of functions for "EACH" of the 8 channels is: FLOAT - No charge, just monitor the voltage self discharging. CHARGE - C/10 charge rate for 16 hours, automatically reducing to TRICKLE RAPID CHARGE - C/7.5 charge rate for 12 hours, " QUICK Charge - C/5 charge rate for 8 hours, " CYCLE Discharge @ 160 ma or 320 Ma, charge 16 hrs, discharge, charge.... SINGLE CYCLE - Discharge, charge for 16 hours, reducing to trickle SINGLE CYCLE RAPID CHARGE - Discharge, rapid charge 12 hrs, trickle SINGLE CYCLE QUICK CHARGE - Discharge, quick charge 8 hrs, trickle Additional features are: This is NOT a fast charger. It is a timed slow charger designed to put the maximum charge in your flight critical battery pack. Plug the battery in; It will be ready the next day, week, or month. Whenever you want to use it, your plane is ready to fly! Visual and Audible signaling of battery quality before use. Charges the 12Volt Lead Field box battery, auto switching for power line backup DYNAMIC Testing, graphing, & analysis of receiver packs DYNAMIC Testing, graphing, & analysis of the 12 Volt Lead Field box battery Keeps track of how long ago each channel was last cycled Keeps the MAH rating derived from the last 5 times each channel was cycled Charger graphic data can be sent from charger to IBM PC running Windows 95. Uses 117 vac or 12v. Great for home or trailer use. It can run by plugging it into a car's cigarette lighter, the 12 volt field box battery , or the 117 vac house voltage. Any one of these functions or any combination of functions can be programmed to any or all of the output ports (8) as the user desires. Least expensive per channel full function charger. - less than $50 per channel Nope you got it wrong read above---------- how about all 8 packs all the Ulitmate channels are independent and each channel can do all of the above!!!! What would one do if they want to C10 charge, say 4 different packs at once? Ultimate Charger II only has one "channel" for that function. You can't fast charge with this one at all. From what I can read about it on the website, it seems to have as many or more limitations as it has advantages. I could not find a price for the Ultimate Charger II on the website. Now, for the Alpha 4: Lets start with a listing of its main functions: 1. Indefinite C/10 Charger, Trickle. 2. Advanced Peak Charger, Trickle. 3. Fast Charger, Trickle. 4. Wet and Gel Charger, Float. 5. Rapid Cycler, Fast Charger, Trickle. 6. Super Fast Cycler, Peak, Trickle. 7. Voltmeter No Load/Load, Cell Test. 8. Trickle Only. 9. Cycler, C/10, Trickle. 10. Normal C/10 Charger Any one of these functions or any combination of functions can be programmed to any or all of the output ports as the user desires. The unit comes with a household to 12 volt transformer and a cord for charging through a cigarette lighter outlet. There is much too much more to say about the Alpha 4 so I have included a direct link to its specs as follows: http://home.att.net/~LitcoSys/al4.htm Paperairplanes, you did ask for the best and not just the easiest one to get. Consider all of the ones that have been mentioned so far and then you can decide which of these is really the best. |
Quad Charger
Gordon,
Wow, I guess I'm not accustomed to the pleasures of a 5 amp charge rate! True, 1 amp is pretty slow, but man there is nothing like charging your RX, ECU and TX battery at the same time, all automatically! Keep in mind if you take off on a full charge and then put it on the charger before your next flight it doesn't take that long to top off even at a 1 amp per pack rate. Sirius has been getting some negative talk on the Alpha web site and certain other "expert" sites. Sirius is not mentioned specifically but the concept of "reverse pulse" has been talked down as snake oil. The "experts" say it's bogus but all I know is my Sirius Pro works great and my packs are strong as ever, they continually test out at max capacity just like the Sirius advertising says. The Quad Charger gave me fantastic service until it started acting a bit funny, but then again it could very well have been bad connections with the standard servo extensions I was using for charging. For now I am giving George the benefit of the doubt. I really hope the extensions were the problem. That Quad Charger was awesome! Believe me, there is nothing better than just plugging in and having charged packs with no muss, no fuss. Everything is automatic with Sirius. True, there is no discharging or cycling capability with Sirius chargers. Yes, you have to buy another unit for that. Yes, it is expensive. Yes, I am probably stupid, but I love that Sirius stuff! I try to keep everything as simple as possible. That may be a character defect in my case but after looking at that Alpha web site and trying to figure out what the heck that guy is talking about, not to mention that incredibly screwed up ordering, back-ordering, pre-ordering who the hell knows what system he has going I'm not sure I really want to reschedule my entire life around a thirty second ordering window three months from now! You want simple? Get a Sirius. |
Chargers
HI all last week at the flying fleild I decided to top up my JR 10x with my Graupner MC Ultra Duo 11,all seemed well.
This week I wall charged my 10x in the evening and in the morning I noticed I had only 10.2 v,plugged it back in and noticed the charger light was not on. Seems my battery pack diode crapped out. Just wandering if the peak chargeing did it. Thanks Rcpete PS my radio is only 5 months old. |
jet chargers
Dustflyer.... you said your packs are strong as ever
but then you admited you don't have a cycler... How do you know ? I have lots of 1400 AE packs with great voltage but only test to less than 500 mah Eddie Weeks http://www.corpcomp.com/weeks1/ |
Capacity
Eddie,
It's easy to misread one of my posts, one of these days I'll learn how to write! I don't think I "admitted" to not having a cycler, I think what I said was the Quad Charger does not have a cycler or something to that effect. I do indeed have a cycler. It is called the Sirius "Super Test." Yes, it is a separate, stand alone unit that yes, costs even more money. It is a precision discharger that gives you an exact readout of pack capacity. Using the Sirius chargers my packs are still testing at full capacity after fairly hard use. Please, I am not proselytizing for Sirius. I realize that a lot of guys want more information and control from their chargers and they don't want to lay out extra money for separate chargers and cyclers. I just thought I'd mention that I've had great service from mine and they are dirt simple to use. Guys with dirt simple minds like mine might want to look into what Sirius has to offer! |
Chargers
The Litco Alpha4 is a rip off. It is poorly assembled electronically. Looks like very early Taiwanese electronic workmanship. The case does not fit together very well. Most of the operating short comings are enumerated above in other postings. It is difficult to service due to a squirrelly cable connection between halves. Service takes months.
I think it is one man company who assembles the chargers in his spare time. Some how he got people to believe they were the best. Once he got people buying them he restricted his production and established back orders. Ahh! Most people are fooled by this tactic assuming if you have to wait to get something it must be good. Certainly not true in this case. This is junk! We use the "Graupner Ultra Duo" with our turbine planes and the "Ultimate Charger" for general use (8 outputs with 5 amp total). Both are pricey but they are good and certainly worth the money - unlike the Alpha4. |
jet chargers
RCPETE347,
The diode in the JR 10X's almost always fails sooner or later. Remove it and replace with a solid peice of wire. No more problems! |
jet chargers
Eddie,
Because I have the Sirius "Super Test" unit (yeah, I know, mo money, mo money!) that I use for testing my packs. Sorry My mistake.. Please, I am not proselytizing for Sirius. hey...hey...hey. Lets keep the language clean and professional. Kids read this stuff. Eddie Weeks http://www.corpcomp.com/weeks1/ |
Re: Quad Charger
Originally posted by Dustflyer
Gordon, Wow, I guess I'm not accustomed to the pleasures of a 5 amp charge rate! True, 1 amp is pretty slow, but man there is nothing like charging your RX, ECU and TX battery at the same time, all automatically! Keep in mind if you take off on a full charge and then put it on the charger before your next flight it doesn't take that long to top off even at a 1 amp per pack rate. A 6 minute flight takes about 350 mah out of my ECU pack, so that means I'd need about 20 minutes per flight with the Sirius... not necessarily that bad, even though the Graupner will do it faster. My main gripes with the Sirius were to do with the total lack of instructions (maybe it includes instructions now, but I got one of the first ones). When I pay $350 for a charger, I don't expect to have to spend several hours with a multimeter in hand trying to figure out what the heck the charger is doing, which wires are which, whether its true that you have to charge twice to put in more than 1000 mah, etc, etc. Like I said, the guy I sold the charger to loves it - it just wasn't for me. I also like the fact that the Graupner gives feedback telling me how much it put in the pack - coz I can use this as another simple check on the battery condition (when I see it suddenly taking 500 mah, that's a red flag). Given the price of the Sirius Quad-charger, I'd just as soon have mutliple of the cheaper and (to me) more useful Graupners. Sirius has been getting some negative talk on the Alpha web site and certain other "expert" sites. Sirius is not mentioned specifically but the concept of "reverse pulse" has been talked down as snake oil. The "experts" say it's bogus There's a guy called Red Scholefield who's forgotten more about batteries than most of u swill ever know. I don't much care for some of his politics, but when it comes to batteries I'll believe almost anything he says. On his website : http://www.rcbatteryclinic.com/ he says that burp charging achieves nothing, but also does no damage. I'll take his word for it. YMMV. I also looked into buying Sudding's Ultimate charger, but when I posted some questions about it (either here or on the jets list - I forget which), I received a huge amount of email telling me to stay clear of the unit. Hence my purchase of the Graupner and Mainlink chargers. Now if only Graupner / Schulze would do a multiple port (3+) charger in which each port has the same capabilities as the primary port on their current system... but idealy not at 3+ times the price or size... ;-) Regards, Gordon |
Re: Chargers
Originally posted by rcpete347 Seems my battery pack diode crapped out. Just wandering if the peak chargeing did it. Thanks Rcpete PS my radio is only 5 months old. It could be the fast charge that blew it, depending on how much juice the charger tried to put into it - however, there's plenty other ways the fuse will blow. I blew the fuse on 3 10X battery packs even though I only ever charged them with the JR supplied mains charger. The first time was with a radio that was only 1 week old. I replaced the fuses with wire (as suggested by Horizon), and on one occasion I had the copper land blow off of the PCB (it acted as a replacement fuse, I guess). Took me a while to figure it out. The TX charge connector on one charger had bits missing from the end of the black plastic separator, and was causing a short if not perfectly aligned when inserted into the battery pack. I replaced the connector on the charger and have had zero problems since then. Gordon |
jet chargers
one thing I forgot to mention was that this radio battery pack combo will be for air start ram 750. I dont need a bigger ECU battery? Eventually down the line though, Im assuming that Future turbines for me will be autostart.
never assume, it makes an a** out of u and me.... |
JR 10X / fuse
Gordon.
On the JR 10X the device on the printed circuit board in the battery case is a diode to prevent reverse charging. If you pull the battery pack out of the transmitter and look through the opening at the left end of the battery receptacle you will see the glass type fuse on the main transmitter PC board. It is mounted in a block fuse holder. The fuse us removable without desoldering. It could be changed in the field. I am almost positive on the diode but I never have been able to remove one to test it to be absolutely sure. If you ever get one out before it blows you might check it with an ohm meter to be sure. Have a nice day. |
Sirius etc
Eddie and Gordon,
That's the beauty of this forum, lot's of experience and opinion to draw from. I very much appreciate hearing yours as I'm sure the other forum members do. Sirius chargers may not be for everyone. I think they are the greatest; they are simple as dirt, work good and last a long time but I admit I don't know half what you guys do about batteries and chargers. My life is pretty dang hectic as it is between work, infant kids, you name it, so I barely have enough time to get out and fly my model planes once in a while let alone fool around with complicated chargers and cyclers. I like stuff as simple (to match my IQ), reliable and easy to use as possible. Simple airpane, simple turbine, now if I could just get a simple radio! Man, isn't there anybody that can write a manual you can understand? I love the performance of my Futaba frequency synthesized stuff but that manual is the most screwed up thing I've ever seen! Thanks again for all the great info you guys have posted! |
Re: JR 10X / fuse
[QUOTE]Originally posted by arw9fmw
[B]Gordon. "On the JR 10X the device on the printed circuit board in the battery case is a diode to prevent reverse charging. If you pull the battery pack out of the transmitter and look through the opening at the left end of the battery receptacle you will see the glass type fuse on the main transmitter PC board. It is mounted in a block fuse holder. The fuse us removable without desoldering. It could be changed in the field." I just replaced this in my 10X this past weekend. The battery would not take a charge/discharge after my MC Ultra Duo went up in smoke. I unsoldered the fuse and took it to my local electronic guy. He said it is indeed a small buss fuse. Soldered in a new one and that was it. I ran a continuity check on it and it would read both ways, don't know if that makes a difference. |
Re: JR 10X / fuse
Originally posted by arw9fmw Gordon. On the JR 10X the device on the printed circuit board in the battery case is a diode to prevent reverse charging. If you pull the battery pack out of the transmitter and look through the opening at the left end of the battery receptacle you will see the glass type fuse on the main transmitter PC board. It is mounted in a block fuse holder. The fuse us removable without desoldering. It could be changed in the field. Hi Jack, There are actually TWO fuses in the 10X. One, the glass-vial one that you mention, is indeed on the motherboard. The other is internal to the battery pack. It may look more like a diode because of its shape, but according to the techs at Horizon Hobby it is a fuse, so I'll take their word for it. When I removed it to replace it by a solid link, I noticed that it said "5 Amp" on it. If the glass-vial fuse is blown then the radio will not work; if the fuse in the battery pack is blown though, the radio will work just fine, but will not recharge. Also, in case you are interested, see the following thread in which a JR rep talks about the fuse inside the battery pack: http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...73&forumid=174 BTW, since the glass-vial fuse came up - if you do ever replace the glass-vial fuse in a JR radio, do it with great care. The metal that is used for the fuse holder is (IMO) very poor quality, and does not retain its springiness (is that a valid word?). In some cases the metal will not retain its previous shape properly, and even though it looks like the new fuse is well seated, it will have very poor contact. Both I and a couple of my fellow club members have found instances in which a JR radio will switch on and off (beeping and turning the display on or off) depending on how you hold the radio - tilit it this way and its on - tilt it that way and its off. In each case the problem was caused by a replaced fuse moving around slightly inside the holder. If in doubt, wrap some yarn / fishing line around the holder to keep it compressed. Regards, Gordonn |
Chargers
I'v used the DuraTrax chargers for several seasons with 100% satisfaction. Tower has them for a fraction of the cost of other chargers with comparable features. And they are real tiny so they fit in a small flight box!
I charge JetCat and RAM ECU battery packs in 5 - 15 minutes, between flights. Plug in, adjust current (I usually dial in 2.5 - 3 amps), press the charge button and voila, goes into trickle when peak is detected. Light on top tells me if it's in charge, trickle or discharge mode. Also beeps once when done charging. Has a built in fan for improved reliability. Has discharge mode too, but I haven't used it. I discharge on an Alpha 4. http://www.duratrax.com/caraccys/dtxp4100.html |
JR 10X Diode / Fuse
Gordon / JGLP3
I stand corrected! :- ) I think you are probably correct in that the device on the PC in the battery pack is a fuse. The ones I took out had already blown. Of course they measured infinity (open) with an ohm meter so you could not tell what they were. A fuse would measure zero ohms (if it were good) and a diode usually measures open one way and a finite reading the other. Why two fuses? And I thought there was a diode in the charging circuit somewhere. I never have had a problem with charging. Thanks for the advise on the fuse holder. If I ever take it out I will be careful with the tension. At least they made the radio so you don't have to disassemble the whole radio to replace the fuse. Have a nice evening, fellas |
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