RE: BVM T-33 AFS Build thread
 

Guys,

Your making me feel guilty!!!

I was out tonight, I play drums in a band and we have a gig, and boy did we need the practice. Then with works year end conference, our Winterschool training session in Holland and then a gig for the guitarists work place, it will now be a whole week before I can do anything and even get near the model!

However, I might be able to sneak a picture in the morning and post it up here for you to sympathise!!!

Will do this as soon as I can, but you might need to be patient with me!!

Sorry,

Its midnight here, the wife is wondering what I am doing, I better sign off........

Gazzer

RE: BVM T-33 AFS Build thread
 

The first thing that I do when I build a FG kit is to pull female molds off all of the areas that will have doors/flaps etc before any are cut out. I then will use the mold to make the part as it will be slightly "ovesize" and can work down without having to worry about a gap. Added benifit is that I can make the parts out of carbon for stiffness w/o formers and when I need to make a replacement (and I surely will) it is easier to just lay up a new part. Scott

RE: BVM T-33 AFS Build thread
 

Sorry guys.....I was hauling another quarter-million pounds of rubber dog poop out of Hong Kong.
As long as the collets are as tight up against the CF arms as you can get, when you apply 100 psi air pressure to close the speed brake doors they will fit snugly into belly.
Garry, I know what you mean about the perceived slop in the hinging. It is normal until hooked up to the air cylinders and under pressure.
Cutting out the belly pan can be a little tedious. With a combination of rotary cut-off tools and razor saws, a quality product can be achieved. Matt and David's techniques are very good and similar to my own.

Keep humpin'

RE: BVM T-33 AFS Build thread
 

Humpin in english has a slightly different meaning, a kind of boy in girl thing!!!! Like it, will do as told!!!!!!!!!!!


The one thing I have not done, is test under actual pressure, I can see now that the air will "firm up the rod" (back to humpin already!), and that this might reduce the "wander".

I tried some digital photos but the current camera is not good enough, but my good lady is having a really nice digital camera for Christmas so I can let her practice some macro photography.

No chance to further stuff this weekend, but on the case when I can!!

Thanks again!!!

Gazzer

RE: BVM T-33 AFS Build thread
 

Hi guys,

just before the bird is relegated to the attic for the coming Christmas period a quick update and some piccies.

Have not done much more but the bird now stands on her feet, and the doors have all been attached to the air cylinders. Mark was absolutely right and the pressure of the air cylinders really holds the doors well, and they shut. Still a little wander but I can probably tweak the collets a bit.

Had some fun gluing the door connectors, suffice to say, really sand the area well, that gel coat is beautifully finished and resists hanging on for dear life when you start screwing on the rods!!! A few attempts and some good sanding have it all in hand though!

Some fun was had moving the control services with air, up and down, up and down!!!!

Only really managed hit and run guerilla tactics this week due to work and the like a few minutes here and there, but have now finished the fuel tanks, and they don't leak. Ordered a countersink tool to get the heads of the screws looking neater, does anyone fill them in when finishing or just spray them the due colours?

The nose gear is my only source of concern. I take it once the position of the wheel is sorted you can cut down the axle, else on my model at least, the axle is too close to the doors, and I could see the gear getting caught up but if it is shortened, it should be just fine and the wheel will be central?

Can I just say to all those who have read and particularly to those who have contributed a really great thanks and wishing you a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Hopefull here are some pictures showing I am making progress!!!

Gazzer

RE: BVM T-33 AFS Build thread
 

Hey Garry.......
Season's greetings to you as well!
After you have the nose tire positioned correctly on the strut, cut the excess axle off with a dremel 409 cutoff wheel. Obviously, wear eye protection and be careful not to load up the wheel. They shatter easily, but make a nice, smooth cut.

RE: BVM T-33 AFS Build thread
 

Folks,

Started up the build again, just some basic screwing in the blocks that are glued to door surfaces that connect to the air ram rod. Got the countersink tool and impressive results.

If anyone else builds this model, I had to grind down the screws that hold the hinge doors in place to stop them fouling the oleo. The oleo does have two holes in it, so I guess you could actually drill the hinges to let the screws go into the oleo holes, else you will need to grind the excess down as I did last night, which was fun, sparks everywhere!!

My wife might let me use her new digital camera which is way better than my point and snap model, so hope to get some more meaningful shots soon.

Once I have sorted out the door blocks and glued in the maple blocks for the belly, I should be able to move on to the hatches, a few more hours, but by the weekend if I am lucky!!!

Cheers,

Gazzer

RE: BVM T-33 AFS Build thread
 

Folks

Some updates and hopefully some pictures, but having network issues so lets hope!!

I am really happy with the rear hatch, it fits well and looks good. The damage at the back was where I stood on it having dropped it during the first bit of building, but some putty will work great. I used some Zap and filled the crack from behind, it is as rigid now as before I stepped on it.

Not so happy with the front hatch, the picture might be difficult to see, but, at the front edge the whole panel is about 2 mm proud of the fuz. I thought this was a problem with one of the catches so I made another and attached that, but still it stands proud. I think a small sanding down from the top edge will help slightly but having looked inside, the catches don't really pull the hatch in, so I need to thicken the lip on the fuz. Hindsight, I should have sanded the glued catch edge down a bit, rather than thicking the lip. I zapped some poly ply on the lip but it is too thin, so I will find the cut off hatch and use this unless anyone has some suggestions!!!

I have included the picture of the speed brake hinge to those patiently waiting to see what it looked like. Mark was right in that the pressure in the cylinders bangs the thing shut. I need to relieve the former slightly as they still sit proud, but they work OK.

I also show the cut outs for the doors. All is OK, some gaps are just right, others a little larger, but on the whole I think acceptable for my first ever efforts with this type of build!

My problem is that the gear doors seem to be slighty proud of the belly, and I think I will need to put a small dowel post to just push the belly up a few mm so that the door is at the same level.

I have stopped working on the doors until I get some feedback from you guys on how best to level the belly!!!! I only have to glue on the door retaining block and screw it in. Bought 2 packs of poly ply screws so might over engineer some of the attached blocks!!

Else I just have the wing retaining block to fit and bond the tab in the wing and then it is on to the flaps.......

Lets see if the images will now upload...


Gazzer

RE: BVM T-33 AFS Build thread
 

Hey Garry.....
Looks very nice!
On the front hatch, use some thin ply strips on the inside of the fuse opening to pull the hatch in tight. Install the hatch and reach inside and put a small piece between the catch and the fuse. If you can't reach the area, experiment with the thickness until you achieve the fit you want.
I am not quite following you on the main gear door fit problem. From the pictures it looks very good. Run that by me again.

RE: BVM T-33 AFS Build thread
 

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the kind words, your too generous!!

Right let me see, the belly pan is fixed in place as you can see. When you retract the wheels, the gear door that will be connected to the door, stands proud to the front edge of the belly pan. If you slid your hand from the front of the belly pan towards the rear, you would foul the door. I think the belly pan at the front part of the cut out sags a littlem making the door proud.

So it is not the door that is proud, but the belly pan is too low. Thus if I put a small dowel stick and prop up the belly pan, it should all be level!!

I will try and take a picture to show this.

Hope that makes it a bit easier!!!

I also have another huge problem which I discovered last night. This is a potential showstopper and I guess I have to come clean......

Port wing fits a real treat, slides on and off with hardly any friction. Although I set the front starboard wing spars in the same way, it did not quite stay where it was, thus the front wing spar is misaligned. I first discovered this and was able to get the wing fitted although only just.

Last night however, I stupidly thought I could bend the aluminium bar very slightly and resolve the issue. Result, worse!! The bar has a slight bulge so wont be used for flight and actually on reflection it needs an offset not an angle....... I can't get the wing on now!!!!!

I will seek some local advice, I guess I am not the first but could be close to the first to do this.

Any thoughts.......?

Gazzer

RE: BVM T-33 AFS Build thread
 

Hey Garry....
If you can shim the belly pan and get a good door fit all around, by all means that would be the best solution.
Now, for problem # 2 it probably won't be that easy. First off, replace the bent aluminum spar and move on. Don't try and re-bend it straight. Won't happen. Worst case you might get it stuck in the fuse or wing and then really be screwed. If the Aeropoxy has cured all around, the wing fit you have now is what you get. Short of ripping it all out and starting over, the best thing to do is fill the gaps and block sand.
Don't beat yourself up over this, feces happens! Let me know what you decide to do.

RE: BVM T-33 AFS Build thread
 

Hi Mark,

Well your right, no point in killing myself, and feces sticks too!!!!

Best thought I have had so far is to get one of my friends who is an engineer by trade to have a look. I am pretty sure he can make me wing spar that is the same diameter for the length needed to sit in the fuz, and for the protruding bit to have a 2 mm offset at the same diameter, which can the be drilled hollow afterwards. Not neat, will work fine and the resulting tube a bit heavier and not as hollow, but your right, must not use what I have got!!!

The other choice is to cut a new spar in half and weld it together with a small plate, again offset, but that would not be neat.

The real shame is that the reason it went wrong was simply a lack of checking, I simply did not check properly after tack gluing in, the wing was really stiff but it went on. Once aeropxied on, there was not chance at all of the slight flex that I reckon I was getting. Darn and blast, but lets be positive, if my friend can do what I want, he will have fun working it out, and what I get will be at least adequate and probably quite good!

So to all you builders out there, just be careful, there was nothing wrong with the kit, merely the builder. The proof, the port wing slides on and off without even a slight judder!

If neither of the above are an option, what I think I could do is select a smaller diameter spar where it protrudes, and place a shim on one side. That will still take the wing load and steady the wing, but should allow much easier installation of the wing. Again, non preferred option but I think it would work.

I will shim up the belly and trial the doors again, if all OK, will move on to the flaps and finish the wheel spats later.

Mark, be afraid, flaps next!

Gazzer

RE: BVM T-33 AFS Build thread
 

Gazzer,

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger in the screw up department I do it all the time! Just a suggestion as to what I would do.....if I understand you correctly you glued the phenolic tube in place and it got a little out of whack, then to further screw it up.....(my classic manouver!) you bent the wing tube..,..... Back up and punt! Grind the phenolic tube out you order a new tube from BVM along with the phenolic it doesn't cost a whole lot I am sure and you fix it right. The reason I suggest this is that I had an off road excursion one time with my Phantom, and wiped out the left wing, fortunately I had not deviated from the standard build and the new wing slid right in place. Incident number two (actually number one).....when I built my Balsa Bandit years ago the rudder departed the airframe on the maiden flight it fluttered off at Mach something.... I took the vertical fin off my buddies airplane while it was sitting in the trailer and it was a perfect fit.

RE: BVM T-33 AFS Build thread
 

I have screwed up too, and I would have to agree with David, I would grind it out, even if it meant a new former.

It sounds awful, but I would get a big dremel pro and a big drum and a good vacuum and get it out of there!

RE: BVM T-33 AFS Build thread
 

Hey Garry...
I agree with David and Matt....I think it would be better to remove the phenolic tube and start over. With a drum sander grind it out and install a new one with the same procedure as before.
Aeropoxy is a wonderful thing! You can fill the voids and no one will be the wiser.
This is probably the only way to achieve a solid wing to fuse fit.

RE: BVM T-33 AFS Build thread
 

Thanks guys,

Removing the phenolic is probably the right thing to do, but to me entails scary issues!! However, I can appreciate doing it from the inside to the outside will reduce the total amount of work and result in perfection, and some more aeropoxy usage!!!

However, I will explore making up an offset spar, as this may just work out and save the remodelling inside the fuz.

Either way, it can't be left as is, this is a BVM kit after all!!!!!!!!

Cheers,

Gazzer

RE: BVM T-33 AFS Build thread
 

Folks,

As I am depressed now, I just snuck a quick look.

Grinding out is probably the best option.

I am thinking if I grind from the inside out, I should get a reasonable "hollow" left where the tube was. For sure it will be a bit uneven but not too bad, and when the new tube is put in, providing it is packed with aeropoxy. then it should all mate up and be pretty much sorted. Once ground out, I can adjust the 2 mm I got wrong and reseat.

The only problem with that is how to get a dremel or permagrit grinder down that far in the tube............

Some thought needed of how to do that!!!

Gazzer

RE: BVM T-33 AFS Build thread
 

Gazzer,

I'm not exactly sure how deep the spar area is on the T-33 but you could always get a 6mm coarse permagrit tool (R204C), cut the grip part of the handle off (cut the plastic not the metal) chuck the tool into a hand drill for the very deep stuff. Alternately use the 12 mm tool and do it by hand. You might also try a hacksaw blade without the frame, cut the phenolic tube in two places so that you can squeeze and pull the tube out. Then all you have to do is clean up a little of the aeropoxy and you are ready to glue the new tube back in place.

RE: BVM T-33 AFS Build thread
 

Hi Guys,

Spent an hour on the problem with my good friend and building buddy Alan. Alan is an engineer by training and interest having some high level qualification.

The good news is that after some basic metal bashing, sanding of the wing spar tube, mucking about and taking time, the wing will now fit. If you look at the bend in the bar it is minute. Were happy that this stress on the tube will not cause structural failure at any point in use.

I'll try and post a picture later.

It is still very tight in comparison to the other wing, but it is removable and we think the bar was a little expanded due to the heat generated in all the sanding process. I think cleaning the inside of the phenolic tubes may ease the problem further and then some silicone might even help a bit further than that!

We left the wing in situ an inch from the fuz to see if it holds true for next time. In any case a quick call to Patty at BVM on Friday, parts identified and less than $10 for two sets..... why two, well I already screwed up once!!! She is such a nice person, and to work with and fly all those BVM jets, some people get all the luck!!!!

I therefore still have the option to make a change. If I do, then we will attempt to drill out the tube with a 5/8 drill followed by a reamer, and then to relocate the new phenolic etc. But if it is not required, then well frankly, let's not do it!.

The irony is the reason I put the wings back on was to check the postioning of the wing tabs, which I forgot to do. However I forgot, this is a BVM kit, the tab slot is marked on the fuz and highlighted in pen, and the wing already has the slot laser cut out, ready to rifle a little slot in the foam. DOH!!!

Thanks again guys, your making this build really fun!!!

Gazzer

RE: BVM T-33 AFS Build thread
 

Guys,


Sorry for the delay, but have been rather busy.

Today's story is about defeat and victory and listening to experts!!!!

Defeat.

The metal bashing episode, frankly whilst I was very grateful to Alan, did not work. There was still too much effort required to seat the wing, whilst under G and load, what might it do? The whole episoed had taken 2 to 3 hours and still was not right.

Victory.

I listened to you guys here, and decided to grind out the tube. It took me less than 1/2 hour, because as I started, the tube cracked and I concentrated effort on this, and it just chipped out. A final easy grind on each end with a Perma grit file and rotating thingy, and BINGO. All, out no damage. As we speak I have ground slightly larger holes out and guess what....... Yep, it fits perfectly.

So, I will aeropxy it in later tonight and the next time I go to build, all is square and neat.


Yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Morale of the story.

Get it right first time............

Cheers guys,

I will post some photo's when my wife lets me use her camera again!!

Gazzer

RE: BVM T-33 AFS Build thread
 

Nice Job Garry......Just look at how much you learned from this exercise!!!!!

RE: BVM T-33 AFS Build thread
 

Mark,

Yeah, the main one!!! Get it right first time, and then if it is wrong, don' fudge or bodge it, make it right!!!

Should be able to make a little progress this week, have spent some of the day priming the cockpit kits and the inlet tubes.

I still need a bit of work on the front hatch now having lined the innards with some 64 ply the catches work well, but did anyone else find that the hatch moulding is a little large for the aperture and needs a few mm off in my case the edge with the spring latch on?

Anyhow, again, the accuracy of the kit does not allow you to make foolish mistakes, I measured the outage and it was actually 3mm, I guess at 150 mph that could make some considerable difference!!!

Just wish I could afford one of those composite Bobcats now, something to play with whilst I get this baby up to speed!!!

Back to you all later, thanks for retaining interest!!

Gazzer

RE: BVM T-33 AFS Build thread
 

Guys,

Sorry this is slow but life really keeps me busy recently.

Anyhow, the tube and phenolic are now done and fit perfectly;).

My next issue...... having fitted the wing retaining tabs the starboard side is perfect as per picture below, but the port side tab is drilled through for the bolt into the brass insert in the underlying maple block. The hole drilled through the fuz needs to line up with the hole in the gear door belly pan fitting, which cunningly already has a hole through it. Needless to say a few microns here and there, and the bolt goes through the holes into the maple but does not wholly go through the tab. DOH!!![:@]

As its horizontal movement, a large washer will provide enough bite on the tab.

So all is now done and when the CA sets (its cold in the attic tonight) I will be able to start the flap assembly.

I've done some other odds and sods, the inlet ducts are ready to go, a lot of the cockpit floor has been primed, the carbon bypass is painted and nearly filled (see the blasted pin hole thread!!!) so progress.

I've also trimmed the front hatch, re positioned the latch, and once I have put the internal shim back in the right place, the hatch looks to mate in much better than before.

A couple of proof of the pudding pictures!! The funny little brown bits are the remains of the phenolic tube!!!

Cheers guys,

Hope to have more for you soon,

Gazzer

PS Cannot upload pictures, have tried 7 times!!! Will have another go in the morning, I guess everyone is busy!!

Cheers,

RE: BVM T-33 AFS Build thread
 

I'll just try and upload the pictures again!! Have saved at 50% size and it seems to have worked, lets see what they look like!!

Gazzer

RE: BVM T-33 AFS Build thread
 

Hey Garry....
I suppose I should Have known that the atmosphere here would turn so caustic. The personal scathing attacks have gotten the best of me.
I am done here, but you can contact me directly at anytime. I look forward to working with you and helping in anyway I can, it is always my pleasure.

Best Regards