Folks,

Just preparing to start my epic adventures!! I will put a thread together for those who are interested and I will be asking plenty of questions for advice guidance suggestions etc!

I will be fitting a Wren MKIII for this which seems to be a most suitable power plant, the autostart version but without on board gas tank. Radio is JR PCM10 pretty much as reccomended by BVM.

However, things have got off to a bad start already!!![:@]

I have managed to mislay the air pipe diagram for the retracts!!! I got them out of the box to see how they worked, thought I'd figured it out but, sadly, must have something wrong cos they all go at different speeds, and the mains don'tactually make it fully out or back!!! I read the piping layout and instructions some 6 months ago when I bought the kit, but as usual put them somewhere safe, but I am sure I have got them wrong.

Has anyone the ability to share this info with me? I have both the robart air valve and the new BVM hiFlo valve but used the Robart one last night, you have twin air tanks and I took it up to 80lbs psi.

Hope to make even more acquaintences on the way to what is for me, way advanced in all modelling terms!!!

Gazzer

Use the BVM HiFo valve! It may not fix this specific problem, but it is MUCH better than that crummy Robart one!

Bob

Thanks Bob,

Will do, but still will use the robart for the speedbrakes.

I guess you have not got a diagram of how the airlines are laid out have you?

Gazzer

Gazzer.....
If the gear all travel in the proper commanded direction, you do have the jet plumbed correctly. It is better to use the BVM high-flow valve with approx. 100 lbs. pressure. The new main gear are very robust and require more volume to retract them in a timely fashion.
I have built 2 of the new AFS T-33 kits this year and have found the gear to operate flawlessly once rigged.
If you are still in need of the air-install diagram, it may be possible to get it e-mailed from the factory.

Best Regards

Mark Taylor
BVM Rep

Hi Mark,

Many thanks.

I only have Dave Shulmans private email address and try not to use it, after all it is his own!! I know Mr V doesn't like giving out their email address's for obvious reasons. Is there a chance that I can PM you with my email address to forward on?

Nick Smith in the UK normally helps me, but I think he may be away just now?

It's my fault anyway, I hid the damn plans! Actually I think one of the retracts may be going the other way, so will double check that too.

I was not going as high as 100lb psi and also did not use the HiFlo. Two facts to play with later, I also only connected one tank in, as it was a test.

I am impressed with the mechanics though, very well engineered and solid, no play in the system at all.

Daft question, presumably you use the servo slow function to make the raising and lowering at a scale speed, else they would just bang up and down (yuck!)??

As you've built 2 AFS, I would love to hear any comments you have, and also have you any pictures?

I intend to make it look scale, but will not be entering competitions etc, too much like hard work and I could not bear the critiscism!! I have bought landing lights from Dennis at Glennis for the front leg and decided over the weekend to add lights to the wing tanks, not scale I know, but it will look good in the air, and not unrealistic I guess, even if the full size did not have them.

Many thanks for taking an interest and hope to hear from you,

regards,

Garry

Garry....
Go ahead and e-mail David, he will be glad to get back to you with any help he can.
The servo slow function on the gear serves to make sure the wheels are up and locked before the doors are signaled to close. On extension, the doors open immediately, followed shortly there-after by the gear.
There are several pictures of the first T-33 I built on the website, done in flite-metal. I have several more I can e-mail you if you would like. I also have quite a large collection of standard photos taken over the years when I used to fly the full scale version as a young Lt. in the ANG. If you are interested, let me know. As far as the lights go, the tip tanks had nav lights just about centered on the outside.

If I can be of any further help, please feel free to call on me.

Best Regards

Mark Taylor
BVM Rep

Mark,

Thanks for info. I should not have a real problem as the retracts wont get plumbed in for some time to come, I just felt that with this being all new to me, a non on board test would be the way to go! I should be patient and await David or Nick to get back to me, there is no rush. Who knows I might even find the plans by then!!!

That is one smart T Bird on BVM site. And you used to fly them!!! Having read a lot about them, they really seemed to be pushing the boundaries all the time. I just think they are graceful and even now, what every boy does when he doodles a jet or two.

I have some pictures of the NAV lights on the tank, I had meant that I would put an ulta white brite LED on the front of each tip tank, so not scale but should look good in the air.

I will be powering this with the Wren 54MKIII, giving over 14lbs of thrust so I think it should be quite matched.

Only issue is of course the thread sizes between US and UK. A friend of mine in CA will send me what I need in respect of taps, dies, allen keys etc, but it would be good to know what sizes to get!!!

I had one other thought that I did not have the wheels or oleos on the U/C, I guess as they have some weight that they will slow down the up/down movements to be scale like.

Did you take any pictures whilst building? I am keen to understand how easily...... or not this bird goes together, as my building skills are only improving because of my flying skills!!! And finally, roughly how long did it take you to get it together ready for painting at least?

Thanks for the interest again,

Gazzer

Garry....
All tools required to build the jet are listed in the first couple of pages in the manual. The taps are all readily available from most hobby suppliers or machine shops.
With the high-flow retract valve, you can use lower pressure to actuate the gear for slower speeds. Just experiment with the PSI to get the effect you want.
The kit is a fairly quick build. Of course, depending on your experience level and availability of free time, it is hard to say. The 2 I built were ready for finish in about 2 months.
I did not take any pictures during the construction phase. There are so many nice pictures in the manual that it seemed a waste of time! I do have some pictures taken during the finish process, maybe they will help if I can get them to upload....

The pics are too large to post more than one at a time.....sorry

Hi,

What are the specific differences between this kit and the older ones?


Thanks,

Hey Garry.....A couple more I dug up.

Garry,

May I suggest that the best way to control your T33 gear is to use an Ultra Precison valve which is what I used in my T33 . It is very easy to set up for the correct sequence and both door and gear speeds are controllable via built in needle valves. Once set it never needs adjusting. Works perfectly. Years ago I built a BVM F86. The gear was clever, but a dog's breakfast, using cranks levers. pushrods, and two retract servos. I could never get it to work reliably due to inaccuracy in the retract servos. I ripped the cranks, levers and servos out and converted the whole thiing to air power with a UPS valve as the controller, easy to install, a doddle to set up and cannot go out of adjustment. That F86 will be flying this weekend and I have never adjusted it in the years since since installation. The design was offered to BVM to save others the frustration I went through but nothing came of it. (NIH!)
Regards,
David Gladwin.

Uh....

I really wanted to know........

Hi all,

Thanks for the views on the U/C, I will keep the BVM HiFlo valve in use, as I have run out of dosh to buy anything else!!!

Mark,

Thanks for the pictures, it is a beautiful example, and has given me some motivation. Your right that you get a tool list at the front of the hefty manual, but I could not see what tap and die sizes were needed. I think getting US sizes over here is a bit of an issue, obviously if in the USA, could nip down the moel shop and purchase, but would prefer to get it right before getting my friend to send stuff on!

I think it will take me a lot more than 2 months to build!! But hey, that is part of the fun I guess, and the look of the parts make me think it will go together a bit more like an engineering project than a kit. There are a lot of good ideas and hints as you go through, so some of these should help me.

One reason for doing the thread is to get advise and guidance all the way through, as I am a novice and am not underestimating the challenge. One area that does worry me though is the flaps and the cut outs for them. Still not got my head around this, but, well, just go to get on and do it!!

Has anyone ever made a workgin canopy for this model. When BV kindly took me round the factory, I asked and he said he had never heard of one being done, and as the canopy was so long, it was not really practical. Propetic words I think, but I did wonder?

David,

Thanks for input and it reminds me, so I will apologise publically, I still have not returned your 3 views and photo. Shame on me, I will do it I promise!!! Must have had them for 6 months now, I am so sorry.

I should get started this weekend, first incision, the nose, I will mask it out and use highlighter pen to show how far to go, and then use Dave Wilsheres technique with saw (RCJI recently)

Then I will post some pictures to show it can be done. As Mark says there are a lot of good pictures in the manual, but I would like to record this just for myself, and hope others might find this to be of value.

I do wonder how many T-33's are out there too?? They don't seem that prevalent in magazines, but this may be due to their maturity.


Thanks guys,

Gazzer

Hey Garry.....
As I remember, the tap sizes needed are 2-56 and 4-40. If you have trouble finding them locally, they are available mail order. I realize that shipping will cost more than the taps!
You are correct that the flaps require special attention to detail. The sequence of tasks are very well thought out, and when followed closely, ensure trouble-free scale operation. When you get to that point in construction, and have any questions, we'll go through it step by step.
I do not know of any operational canopy out there. As the engine bay hatch serves to hold the canopy in place while in flight, I think it would require some engineering to make it work. It would be very cool!!!!!(but maybe better left to another project)
You are right about the pictures. The manual leaves nothing to chance, but I urge you to take as many as you can during construction. If anything, they can go into your personal library for future reference, you never now when you'll need them again!

Hey Garry....
One more thing that just occured to me......there's no reason you can't change to metric on the few holes that need to be tapped. The carbon-fiber flex plates for the landing gear need to be tapped 4-40. You could change those to the equivalent metric size tap and screws. Same with the few 2-56.
Might save alot of money and time, and not effect structural integrity.

Shawn,

Highly pre-fabbed wings with live hinges for the ailerons. I believe Bob also took out the undercamber on the leading edge cuff to improve the landing characteristics. Stabs and vertical fin/rudder get the same treatment. It's sort of the same thing they did with the F-86 in that things were redesigned and simplified to make the airplane buildable with minimal tools and space. The fuse is offered in a silver gelcoat too so if you want. They also put the new Super Bandit landing gear system in them, a new fuel system, and a new component layout to make installing things easier.

Thanks, Doug!

BV shoud make YOU a Rep........

Hi guys,

Thanks Mark, good idea, I guess I could always source local screws etc.

Dave Schulman just sent me the air line plan that I have lost, he was on vacation so thanks Dave. Guess what, yep incorrectly plumbed a severe case of user error!!!

And to make me look even more stupid, I re read the manual and it does indeed state what sizes of tap are needed. Double DOH! I think!!!

Did my usual last night, dropped the hatch cover from the attic, came down with the fuz to wash it and promptly stood on the hatch cover. words begin like XXX!!!!!$$$$!!!!!

I weigh, well a lot, and it just cracked on one corner, fully repairable, how strong is that as a moulding!!!

So the hand saw, knife and tape are just ready.

One question, clearly there was a very good reason to fuel proof the formers in the D/F days, and I suspect the reason is equally valid now. What do you guys use, BVM suggest sealing with CA or epoxy? Presumably this is best done before fitting to the fuz, providing you don't seal the gluing edge?!

This may seem that I am an amatuer, in truth, that is why I started the thread, I don't want to be under any misapprehensions and am happy to ask the dumb questions. The only real dumb questions of course are the ones not asked!!!

Cheers,

Gazzer

Hey Garry.......
I seal the fuselage formers with catalized primer such as PPG K-36 or PCL poly-primer. It is impervious to jet fuel and is easily applied by brush. I do not recommend sealing the formers until installed. After all the fuse work is done, then go in with a long handled brush and paint the formers and all areas that you can reach. This helps to protect your investment, and gives the jet a clean appearance inside.

Oh, by the way, I have never dropped and broke anything in the shop. I hav'nt dropped any small screws and had them roll away to god-knows-where. I've never CA'd my finger to a part, or accidentily touch a hot soldering iron......I did it on purpose to see how hot it was.....

Thanks again Mark,

I prefer your idea, I will just lightly sand the formers on the faces before fitting with aeropoxy. Can't wait to use the Aeropoxy gun but wondering if you can recycle the applicators? Wonder what the UK equivalent trade nametp PPK or Poly primer, will go looking at the web.

I found a really good web site in the uk www.tapdie.com, very helpful and with plenty of all sorts of stocks. They had the US sizes in stock and they are now being packed for delivery before the weekend!!!! Postage was still expensive, but at least it is insured!!!! Even had the drilss in stock!

Right, out tonight and back late from work tomorrow, so looking like Weekedn to cut up the fuz, so to speak!!!

Thanks for the pointers guys!!

Gazzer

Hey Garry....
I only use the applicaters in areas not easily reached with your fingers. I normally mix the Aeropoxy in a small cup with a stir stick and then apply it with a artist blade spatula. There is a certain amount of wasted material in the nozzles that can not be recovered. You can store the nozzles in a freezer over night, and use them one more time after thawing out.

Have Fun!

A good buddy told me this is what he does to re-use applictors.

you can reuse the applicators by letting them soak in acetone. the little squiggly thing inside the applicator can be removed with a pair of needle nose pliers etc. then just place the appplicator tip and squiqqly thing in a mason jar or equivalent container. after some time the aeropoxy just settles to the bottom of the container. pull out the applicator, wipe it down, allow to dry and then re-use.

take care

buck

I use a variation of the above idea ... I pull the inner section out of the nozzle and drop both parts in a jar of acetone for a few minutes. Then I pull them out to clean them - a pipe-cleaner does a great job of cleaning the outer, while a toothbrush (used gently) cleans the inner part very well. With this kind of approach, a nozzle can last you several weeks. (And since I bought a bag of 200 nozlels, I'm probably set for life )

As for the issue of "losing" some epoxy in the nozzle - sometimes I mix the glue up without using a nozzle (just make sure that you REALLY mix the parts well - it takes more mixing than your average runny 5 minute epoxy !), but I also have a "dry-erase" board next to my building area, which I keep all sorts of notes on - including one area that I set aside for listing the areas that I need Aeropoxy on. That lets me do the Aeropoxy work in batches to minimize waste, without having to worry that I should glue each area before I forget about it.

Gordon

Well I started!!!

Cut the hatch out using the techniques that Dave Wilshere suggests in his RCJI column and which were echoed by Ian Richardson of Permagrit fame. Ian has built a couple of T-33's and whilst I was ordering some tools from him, he gave me a load of hints tips and indeed suggestions, thanks Ian.

Well I was impressed with the straight lines on the hatch, Ian and Dave are on to something!!

The first part of the build is about installing the nose gear retracts, and two front formers.

Things went well until I tried to tack glue the former. My room for building is the conservatory and at this time of year it can get quite cool. The CA did not want a quick set, and I can't find my kicker, so after the second gluing attempt that came loose when I tried to unscrew the retract flex plate, I decided to cut my losses and let it dry overnight!!!

The very front former will need a little edge sanding as it does not sit flush across the bottom of the fuse, its well cut, but a bit proud to settle down.

I'll do that probably next weekend, have some adventures work wise this week. Damn though it felt good to start it, I'll notch tonights work load up at 3 hours, although at least 1 one of those was moving the tools and bits from the attic to the conservatory!!!

This could end up being a long thread!!!

Gazzer