RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Don't you JetJoe fans see a pattern here?

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

I have had an email only yesterday from JetJoe the email is [email protected].

Can you not contact Mark who you bought it from

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

JJ-1400 ECU Multiplex 6 pin connector wire connections order

Hello

Can someone please name the wire numbres of the multiplex 6 pin connector for the glow plug red and black wires and starter wires red and green. I guess that 2 and 2A are the same and 3 and 3A are the same too.
Due to some accident I have to solder the wires to a new connector. the turbine is a jetjoe -1400 with a new ecu style

Can anyone explain the diferrences between the new and old ecu connections and how to tell which ecu is new or old style. I believe that the old ecu had the wires reverse negative side from the new one

Thank you

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

old ecu3.25"x2"
new ecu 2.5"x1.5"
starter wire neg swapped with glow wire neg
new
1 starter -
2+2a glow -
3+3a starter+
4 glow +
old
1 glow -
2+2a starter -
3+3a stater +
4 glow +

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

There should be a label on your ECU like picture posted by idleup1 above, if you dont have that then you will need to open up your ecu, if you post a picture we could tell you the pin outs.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

You just can't help yourself, can you?

Honestly, it's a wonder you can sleep at night at all...

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Say... Xair...way on back when this blog was about JJ owners discussing JJ Turbines, you pulled your Turbine down for a learn/service. How did that all end up going? I recall you had some blocked injectors and a few probs with their alignment. Did you end up getting that all sorted? And did you notice any improvement in how the Turbine runs now?

BJ:)

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

I still have the turbine in bits, ready for assembly but I need to order another set of GRW bearings as I used the ones I got in another turbine !

Will detail the re assembly on here when I put it back together, not been any urgency as I still have my Boomerang to fly.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Kewl - look forward to seeing how you went...

BJ:)

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

As stated in the 3000 thread:
"Wow, what a guy!!!

No one here is bashing those who buy JetJoes, I certainly am not. What I, however, intend is to warn as many newbies as possible to stay away from JJ. It is VERY clear that their chances of failure in the turbine R/C world is increased by an order of magnitude with a JetJoe. It should be abundantly clear by now to anyone that has read all of this that if your deal is that you want to fiddle and try to get it to run and fix, disassemble, re-assemble, play around, then yes: JetJoe is a valid choice. However, if you want to fly, fly, fly, avoid JetJoe like the plague!

That is the truth, no matter what BJ says. Honest."

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

It also depends how bright or intelligent you are. Not all newbies are stupid. Not all experienced jet pilots have a clue either!

Theres nothing intrinsically wrong with the jet joe motors or their parts. They just need some fine fettling and setting up usually.

But like most of life, the knowledge and skill levels have decreased over the years until everybody expects everything to work like a bought kids toy. No knowledge needed just switch it on. Everthing is dummed down.

The days where people sat down and designed everything from their airframes and even radios and engines is mostly gone.

I used to design and build my own airframes and gas turbines (and pulse jets) since I was about 13 until recently and now 49. and I understand turbines. To me a jet joe motor is pretty damned simple to get running correctly and to set up, fault find, and operate.

If you cannot do that and lack the skills to fine tune and set up the engine then that fine too. Just go buy a more expensive (but not nesassarily better) engine where someone else did it for you.

Understanding them, learning to configure them and what does what is ultimately more satisfying and cheaper than buying your artf engine and airframe.

If you dont have the abilities, the patience, or the IQ to figure it all out then just spend double on xyz brand (whichever you feel has the "easiest" learning curve. Learn and understand much less and get less satisfacion in the end! Your choice.

At one time there was no choice but to build/design/understand everything. In those days it was more difficult to succeed and there were far less people doing so because of it. But now it seems anyone can buy a toy plane and go fly it with little clue about aerodynamics, structures, electronics, engines physics or much else. Just a big cheque book is enough because someone else knows all that stuff.

My early jet joe had too much clearance on the front cover, too much preload and a tight rear bearing and a couple of needles that flowed less. And wildly wrong settings. All obvious stuff to a Shreckling/kamps/pulse jet builder! Took about an hour to sort it all out. And its part of the fun! Runs like a sewing ever since.

Its not about "beginner" or experienced but more about IQ and understanding and patience, not everybody has that ability although some newbies do have.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

There is!
Bad metallurgy and bad tolerances to name just two. These are not things that are "fixable" by the average modeler.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Then the "average" modeler isnt what they used to be.
Maybe they should take up something more simple like football then if sorting out a jet joe is "beyond them" because its easy. Model aircraft, at least at this level isnt for everybody.

As for metalurgy then my olde original one shows absolutely no sign of problems. And its all way better than my home builts!
There has been a (some?) cases of exploding tubine wheels which is not ideal either but again anyone with half a brain wouldnt stand alongside it at high revs because that COULD happen with ANY model turbine. And it has.

Again its down to a little understanding of the physics. And in reality how many have had this problem?

And in the case reported how do you know it wasnt or had been overheating or mistreated one way or another?

You dont seem to understand the difference between tolerances and clearances either.
And these are tiny easy to fix things on a jet joe at least if you have any clue anyway.
If you dont/cant then its not for you. Golf maybe? Or the other easy alternative, just open your wallet and pay twice as much for a different make, one thats built by a guy that does "get it", ready for you to plug and play in your ready built plane.

I have yet to see a jet joe that wont run great with a tiny bit of careful prep work and set up. And a few that were fine as they turned up.

If the had fancy boxes, fancy instructions, were all test run and carefully set up then they would be more expensive. And for many theres no need.

What bothers me more is that they are someone elses work cloned. Sold as their own. But then its just a 54 as built by countless home builders really rather than a copy of a Wren I think...

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Yes, there have been a large number of 54s built by homebuilders - all using the MW54 PLAN for the engine designed by Mike Murphy and John Wight, copyright WREN TURBINES. The homebuild engines aren't copies of Wrens, they are Wren MW54s, in the same way as a KJ66 is a KJ66.

JetJoe (aka Jeff Wong) bought a copy of the plans back in 2003, as well as a Wren Mk 2 kit. It says on the plans that the builder is given permission to make "one or more engines for their own use". Nowhere did it give him permission to make more. It's a shame, as Erez Raviv has already said, that we can no longer give the help to homebuilders as we did in the early days of Wren because you never know who's going to get hold of the information and use it commercially against you. Sad, isn't it?

Sara Parish
Wren Turbines

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

It never ceases to amaze me that the few JJ enthusiasts deny that JJ copied the Wren MW54, perhaps because they feel some pangs of conscience and it is the only way they can reconcile it to themselves. The JJ 1200 was most certainly was copied (without Wrens approval) from a kit and the build instructions that were sold to them by Wren. They did not even know how to start the engine and had to ring Wren for help. The parts were pretty much interchangeable as a result. They had some help from various individuals who let them know the compressor for the Mk 2/3 and hence the JJ1400 was born. I think I am correct that pretty much everything for sale on their web page is copied from a number of manufacturers and they even ripped off the software from Gaspar to port onto the copied ECUs they made. I am not aware of anything that they sell that is not copied.

The products they make are pretty poor. I myself have only seen one JJ engine flying despite being at a large number of meetings. That was extremely noisy as it was well out of balance. At the World Jet Masters in Ireland I saw my second engine. This was most embarrassing or amusing depending on your point of view as it was clearly not set up right and did not want to start despite help from a number of knowledgeable people. Eventually it was started but it had so little power that it could not get the plane airborne. It just did a number of fast taxies past the judges and was retired.

John

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Very sad. I for one have a bunch of home built turbines and an APU sat on the bench as well.
I have no problem getting them (home built/jet joe) to run well but I do have an issue with selling someone elses design for profit.
Is the new bigger one also a copy?

And how accurate does a copy have to be before its not a copy? Almost all small turbines are extremely similar... And a tiny change makes them run totally differently.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

>>> The products they make are pretty poor. I myself have only seen one JJ engine flying despite being at a large number of meetings. That was extremely noisy as it was well out of balance. At the World Jet Masters in Ireland I saw my second engine. This was most embarrassing or amusing depending on your point of view as it was clearly not set up right and did not want to start despite help from a number of knowledgeable people. Eventually it was started but it had so little power that it could not get the plane airborne. It just did a number of fast taxies past the judges and was retired.

This is the kind of user I was refering to. He obviously cant figure much out. I can show you one that has plenty of power and runs and starts great! But it takes a little fettling! If you are a artf flyer then buy an expensive completely sorted motor from a known manufacturer.

I see JJ motors as a well built home built that needs some fine tuning and a little setting up. The bits are better than I can make so no longer need to bother. But it takes a little effort to check them out to be sure its going to run well. That said its still a copy in the same way that people download music or movies or fake rolexes. That I do have issues with. More so if I was Wren!

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

The JJ1200 and 1400 are copies of the Wren MW54 Mk 2 and 3. The JJ1800 was a Simjet Sonic. The JJ Junior is the Martin Lambert Kolibri and I believe the JJ 3000 is a copy of the Merlin, meaning that Gaspar Espiell has been hit twice, once by the copy of his ECU and then by an engine copy. As for the accuracy, I can only say that the first JJ1200s were a copy of the Mk 2 54 and at a glance loked identical inside. Differences only became apparent when the engines were built (no preload, wheels poorly balanced, parts not fitting correctly) and people tried to run them. The copy is so exact that we have come across a mixture of JJ and Wren parts in the same engine, where homebuilders like dynopower have rectified some of the JJ faults and used Wren parts to correct them.

Sara Parish
Wren Turbines

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

So you know the JJs are copies of Wren engones and have admitted as much, but you still feel you are not contributing to theft by buying JJ products? HUH????

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

When I buy a chevy I do not see it as supporting ideas that were stolen from ford. In the modern world you produce a product and you only have a short time before people start to copy it. Knowledge is a short lived luxury. How you compete in the modern world is by service and striving for excellence.

If you are going to by sparkplugs for your vehicle, do you think ford cares that it’s a chevy….of course not. They are glad to sell you the parts you need regardless of what make car you have. Why is this…its good business!

I own one turbine. A Jetjoe 1400, because it was less expensive and by the way, I am a happy JJ cusotmer.

So is buying a JJ supporting theft. No way! Turbine design is common knowledge.

I have been followong this thread for some time and am truly sick of JJ bashers. Please just go somewher else.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Perhaps if you bought a Chevy that was IDENTICAL to a Mustang in every way, you would see that you were supporting those who had ripped off Ford.

Dude: be real. You know and I know and everyone reading this knows that JetShmoe ripped off Wren on the MW-54 design.

If you need to deny that fact to be able to live with yourself, well, have at it bro!!! But that don't change the facts!!! [X(]

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

Below some pictures of a JJ combustion chamber. Engine bought around 6 month ago. About 4h of run time. Please explain me how a costumer with a IQ of high level and some fine fettling and setting up can prevent that the metal used in these tubes hold for the time that it is supposed to stay.

http://www.xicoy.com/jjj1.jpg
http://www.xicoy.com/jjj2.jpg
http://www.xicoy.com/jjj3.jpg

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

  hey gaspar which size engine is the CC from?

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

A) i dont agree with copying someones work for profit. I didnt realise that Wren owned the MW54 design since plenty of us were building them many years ago before I heard of wren turbines and buying/swapping parts etc. But I already have it now and it was actually aquired in a swap with a Solent Gas Turbine Starter (Plessey Dynamics) and under a different name (rebranded) anyway. At that time I never heard of JJ either!

B) Have no idea why that turbines CC has deteriorated but it could be any number of reasons including not running correctly (too hot) for some time for whatever reason. Or it could be a faulty / inferior material etc in which case I would expect it to be swapped FOC anyway. For what its worth mine looks as good as new apart from not being as nicely made as the wren one from the start. I have a wren one here too. The difference in running quality and temperatures are noticible although minor with the wren one being best. Both work fine though. I have a melted piston from my GSXR1100 here too. Does that mean all suzuki pistons are crap? Or was it caused by a weak mixture? (in this case it was a partly blocked jet). I have seen some melted bits in other engines too... So on its own it doesent really prove anything.

RE: JetJoe OWNERS thread
 

My views have always been that the JJ1400 can be a good little turbine if set up properly, mine has never failed to start or run and has about 50 flights todate in my bobcat.
I have spoke up in the past on this thread saying that the later engines are now made from the proper materials etc and all the past problems were due to faulty components which everyone knows. Also I can only comment on the 1400 which I have personal experience of.

The Combustion chamber shown above does not have inconel vapour tubes, all 1400 are supposed to have had inconel tubes for nearlly 2 years now so maybe this is of a different engine or a earlier model.

What I have come to realise recently that the real negativity against JetJoe is due to the blatant copying, I was always thinking it was general knocking of jetjoe selling a cheap turbine and issues over the components, and the how the turbines run, and is why I have always given my views as I mine has always ran fine.

Just recently because of this I done some research myself and the 1400 is vertually indentical to a wren 54 mk3 and basically all parts can be interchanged. I also have a wren mk2 which is bears no real ressemblance to the 1400 but maybe it did to earlly 1200's.

Maybe I was nieve in the past as I always thought that the reported copying was really just a similar design and people were getting wound up with a jetjoe selling a cheap turbines.

Now that I see it first hand for myself, I cannot support that, I stand behind Wren as with Gasper as I think JetJoe should have at the very least stuck with buying in ECU's rather than copying them as well and making another promanant supplier in this small turbine world angry.