Tjt 3000 Eagle
 

I knew air temp makes a difference, but not that much... thx for the info Ed. How about atomspheric pressure? what is the formula for turbine thrust?


Thx Paul. What's this new ECU for? and are you going back to do more testing and comparisons with this new ECU ? Is the eagle in full production now?

Tjt 3000 Eagle
 

Atmospheric pressure and humidity also have an effect on engine thrust output. If you combine these effects with those generated by temperature changes, they are referred to as Density Altitude. SimJet is working on a Density Altitude chart for their engines, but it will be a little while before they have enough data to publish a reliable chart.

I will see if I can find a reasonable rule of thumb for altitude effects. The book I'm referencing is rather thick!

Ed

Tjt 3000 Eagle
 

Good point Ed, no harm done. As a P.Eng, I'd expect no less... :D
Perhaps, I should have cleared this up earlier.

Lets me just clarify that the TJT's are still rated at 27.5 lb continuous. We chose this spec such that most modelers in common running environments would be able to achieve this level of performance, regardless of their understanding of thermodynamics.

That being said, I suspect Mike's force gauge could be giving him some slightly inaccurate readings. I have had the same level of variability from a $15 Canadian Tire fish scale. (the fancy one with the integrated tape measure... :D )

The simple facts are, this engine produced at least 27.5lb of thrust in Perth prior to shipment, The ambient temp was near 35 C. Following that, Mike appears to be a happy man because he got exactly what he paid for plus some... He's also great guy and I'm happy to have him as a customer.

Enough rep chit chat... I want to hear feedback from Mike after he flies it in his Bobcat. :)

Thx,
Kelly

Tjt 3000 Eagle
 

No harm intended. I've just seen too many thrust numbers being thrown around recently(not just in this thread) that are not related to a standard baseline.

I also recognize that there are some inaccuracies in Mike's thrust measurements(tolerances on fish scales vary dramatically) and thatis why I had the +/-.5 lb tolerance in there. The accuracy available is actually +/-1 lb if you follow standard engineering principals of your tolerance can be no smaller than the smallest increment you measure. IE measure in 1 lb increments, tolerance is +/- 1 lb, measure in .1 lb increments, your tolerance is .1 lb.

BTW, at what temperature is the TJT3000 rated at?

Ed

Temps
 

G'day Ed, heres a few spec. temp RPM readings for you on the
TJT3000 EAGLE full auto start production engine.

RPM / EGT degrees C.

33,000 578
50,000 596
75,000 550
100,000 550
126,000 596

Slam 33,000-126,000 max EGT 650 / 3 seconds.

Max thrust 12.5 kg/ 125 newtons @126,000 rpm

Tjt 3000 Eagle
 

Hi Marty

Thanks for the rpm/temperature numbers. I was actualy looking for the ambient air temperature at which the 27.5 lb rated thrust is produced.

Ed

temp
 

Ed - I believe 35 degrees C.

Tjt 3000 Eagle
 

This is all good info for our hobby. I'd like to see all turbine mfgs use a standard measuring technique to settle any mis-info and to enable us customers to compare the data given to decide on a purchase. I know this may cause loss of sales, but I believe that a good product sells itself w/o hype. At this time, I do not see any compeling reason (from a performance, relaibilty, cost, and service) to look any where else but at Jetcat's turbines. Again, I like competition....so bring it on, turbine mfgs, and give us more options.

Tjt 3000 Eagle
 

Hi guys,

Does anyone know about this engine's case pressure at those corresponding RPM/thrust figures?

Gerald.

Service and Support
 

Hi Ehab

I couldn't agree more. You can't compare automobile efficiency and power without comparing fuel economy and horsepower. The fuel economy and horsepower ratings are based on standardized testing.

Customer service and support are also very important things to consider. That is why SimJet has selected Great Northern Models as their North American Distributor and Service Centre. We've proven to them and to many SimJet customers that we're here to stay and we will provide the best support possible.

There are many options out there, of which TJT and SimJet are two. The competiton makes us all better!

Ed

Artes Jet Eagle
 

Ehab ,the new Ecu uses latest technology available it is smaller and its programing is capable of running all the motors with some changes, it is tested and comes as standard equipment on all production motors.My F-16 is ready, Im finishing my Su-37 for Twin Eagles and My F-14 will have twin Bees!

Turbines
 

I have had Jetcat,Simjet, and Ram All I have to say is I wish I had more Eagle's The service has been the best.

Hi WD40
 

Hello,

What have you been flying then in? How is the flight performance?

Also, what kind of service have you needed? How are things better than others? Is it service or performance?

Thanks

Mark

Tjt 3000 Eagle
 

Hi Paul;

So are you sure this ecu can run all turbines? I have a Mercury that would love a new ecu. Where can I buy this ecu? What do I need to convert the Merc? DO I have to send it in (I'd rather not)?
Is it plug, adjust, test and fly? Again, you got my interest and I hope you can deliver :p

Hi Ed;

Looked up your site tonite. Is the 1200 in stock and how much to California? any taxes?

1200AES
 

Hi Ehab

We have two in stock at the moment. Had six! We're running a special promo starting tomorrow and running to Jan 10, 2003. A 1200AES is $2089 plus shipping(approx. $48 UPS 2-day service). Add $200 if you'd like the IR handheld as well. That's a $158 savings off the regular price and No taxes on my end! :D

We'll be posting the rest of the specials later tonight, so check the Specials Page tomorrow for some good deals!

Ed

Ecu
 

I would say the Fadec Ecu would be your best bet, it is Generic and the parameters can be set for your motor for air start.If you wish to come down to my neck of the woods and bring your motor we can install a fadec and get it running, if you go with the generic app, you start off with a pre-set of parameters and then teach the ecu your motor. It would take a hour at least to set up run and teach the ecu the motor, this would be best because you dont need to learn the soft programming program, and I spent three days to learn the curve.

Tjt 3000 Eagle
 

So the ICS ecu is NOT able to run all motors like you said? Please make sure the info is correct before you get me all interested.

Do you have a fadec ecu to try on my Mercury? I can send you the turbine or you can send me the ecu!

Thx Paul and Thx Ed!

Tjt 3000 Eagle
 

To everyone...

I was enjoying my night at a local Christmas party. When I returned I had this in my inbox..

****************
This is a message from jettset99 at RCUniverse - The Ultimate ...

Kelly, I wish you would stop making those false statements on the internet! Why don't you tell everyone that the first motor you sent Mike Grant wouldnt go over 24 lbs and you guys had to send him a new one! After Chris told him that the spacer was the wrong size,What Im trying to get at if you dont stop putting down the Artes Engine your going to piss off the wrong guy, the Eagle and the TJT are the same motor you guys might be trying to change things but seem to be having problems, look you dont have to take my advice but just dont put down other brands because its hurting your reputation. Paul
*****************

I have never been presented with such an unprofessional attitude in my life.

I have no problem admitting that Mike Grant had a faulty engine, which has been replaced on warrantee. Last I spoke to Chris, neither he or myself know exactly what the cause of the thrust loss was, but our top assumption was a failed preload spring in the front end, reducing the preload and causing the shaft to sit backwards slightly, thus causing the compressor clearance to open up and reducing the thrust. I have seen this once before in early testing of the TJT. It is unfortunate that this happened but it has been dealt with, period...

Paul, every salesperson on earth is taught to differentiate their product. Your approach with another 'eagle' for less $$$ demands exactly this type of response. The TJT engines are in fact different and the fact that you disagreed with me simply means that you have yet to covertly purchase and tear down the new version. You know Mike has one such engine, explaining why you tried to get your hands on it. When you do buy one, you will see a number of obvious changes and there will be some that are not so evident. If you want all the secrets, I suggest you start sourcing a coordinate measuring machine first thing Monday morning.

For those of you that disagree with my posting and you are in the market for an engine, please feel free to contact Ed at GNM. His off-line comments to me in further discussions about the atmospheric effects on thrust are the candor I would expect from a professional. Thanks Ed.

Honestly Paul, the main purpose of my posts were to protect the investments of TJT's current customers, not future sales. Mr. Grant is a perfect example. He paid price and therefore we are dedicated to his interests. If an engine were released for $2700US and rumored to be identical, he would see an instantaneous decrease in resale value. Future customers are a result of superior service, not crap fights.

Sorry to drag your name into this Mike.

I am done here.
Kelly

Tjt 3000 Eagle
 

Hi Ed, and All

For our thrust measurements we use the standard ISA base line which is, 1013.25 millibars and 15 degrees C.

In the Dec 2001/ Jan 2002 RCJI there is a performance review of the JG 100 engine, this is the engine we designed and built in conjunction with Artes Jets, the figures shown in this review are accurate for the JG100 engine.
This engine has been further developed into the TJT 3000 Eagle by TJT, and is the engine we manufacture and sell as the TJT 3000 Eagle, many of the parts in our TJT 3000 engine are vastly different to what is in the JG100, granted we use the same ngv and turbine wheel, the combustion chamber we use is similar to the JG one but with several modifications to suit our engine.

In reference to a standard base line for engine performance to be judged by prospective customers, I believe that all the engine manufacturers should have their respective engines tested by an independent body, such as the review guys at RCJI. and those results published for buyers to see and use as advice.
To date I know of only three manufacturers who have been willing to have this done, those being TJT and Behotech and I think Wren with the MW54 engine.

Now I would like to address some of the comments being made about the comparison between the Artes 3000 engine and the TJT 3000 Eagle.
As stated earlier in this post TJT designed and manufactured the JG100 engine in conjunction with Artes Jets as reviewed in the RCJI article by Tom Wilkinson. Artes jets supply the Turbine wheel, the NGV and the basic combustion chamber.

The following parts for the engine were designed at TJT and are manufactured and supplied by us to Artes Jets on a commercial basis.:-

Spun front cover, intake and diffuser cover, airstart fitting, Diffuser, fuel manifold, gas manifold, shaft tunnel, shaft, bearing carrier system, compressor spacer, turbine spacers, compressor nut, turbine nut, engine case, exhaust system internal and external, engine mounts, glow fitting, exhaust stand offs, combustion chamber stand offs,, electric starter body, electric starter stand offs, electric starter clutch and bendix.

All of these parts supplied to Artes Jets are made to the drawings for the original JG100 engine, and are not made to the drawings for the TJT3000 engine. Some of these parts are common to the both engines but these are non critical to engine performance.

Paul, (Jettset99) I do hope you read this, you stated quite clearly to me over the phone that it was your intention to buy kit engines from Artes and between you and Tad from GWM, build these engines up to sell into the USA at a cut price, the intention of this act was to damage the JetCat USA market share because of something that happened between you and JetCat USA. Paul I want you to understand this, I will not allow my company, TJT Australia to be a part of what you are trying to do, good and fair competition is the way to go, not the underhanded scheming crap you are generating from all of this, and believe me if you think that big money is able to buy you credibility in this game, then take a good look at those who have gone before you.
I would also like to add this, Paul please do not ever again threaten me, my company or more to the point one of my reps, all you are out to do is cause trouble.
Tonight I will be speaking with Artes, about this, and If I were you I would not be taking any orders for the JG100 engine for a while.

Now lets deal with your threat to post some details about WD40's engine, and why it was replaced with a new one.
it really is quite simple, We initialy thought it was failed pre load spring, we now know why and it was my fault. Mikes engine was one of the first we had built with the new turbine wheel, the hub on the wheel is thicker than the old style wheel, the turbine spacer had to be made thinner, I missed this on the drawings and assembled his engine with the thicker spacer, this altered the spacing between the ngv and the back of the wheel and resulted in a loss of some 2lbs of thrust. To rectify this problem we immediately sent Mike out a new engine, from which judging by his posts on RCU, he is very happy with. I think that rather than damage TJT with this, you have allowed us to demonstrate our positive response to a customers problem with one of our products.

BRG,
Chris at TJT Australia.

Ecu
 

Ehab, the Ics is for full auto start, the Fadec unit will do the job for your merc you can send it to me and ill get it handled, Kelly and Chris, FYI Im good Friends with Mike Grant and speak to him regularly:).....

Tjt 3000 Eagle
 

Hi Chris and Kelly

Chris. I figured you were using STP, but couldn't get to the website to confirm it.

I agree that the best form of comparison is by independent evaluation. That is why SimJet currently has a 1200 at RCJI for review.

Kelly. I learned long a go that discretion is the better part of valour! Thank you for your complements.

G'day Mates,
Ed

Tjt 3000 Eagle
 

I have always said that an independant test body is the only way to provide more accurate and NEUTRAL results to the consumer. This applies to all products not just model turbine.

Ok Paul, I'll call you to arrange the conversion. Then, I can have the mercury tested UNDER FLYING condition and report the results. If I like the results, I will buy one for my Pegasustoo!!! Is this ok with you?

I hope you guys, Paul Kelly and Chris, can work on your issues to a satisfactory end. This is only a hobby for pleasure not for pain!

Eagle
 

Kelly,I have received your email and agree:) I would like to thank you for being so professional,I spoke to Felipe and he relayed a message from Mr Jesus Artes regarding the phone call he received from Chris, It is Artes Jets position to make motors and not politics and we wish TJT the best of luck.Im shure its still very confusing and interesting for all to see are competitiveness but this is shows how serious we all are about this hobby Merry Christmas to you also.

Artesjet Eagle
 

Paul,
I wanted to thank you for putting Jesus into my life man! Im born again hard. :)
Anthony

Turbine
 

Hi Guy's I would like to keep this a hobby, and not a big mess ok.