Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

Is anyone in the US currently flying the Aviation Design Gryphon? If so, can you talk alittle about the building process of the turbine kit and if flown, some of the flying characteristics of this jet? Thanks.

...
 

Me too...

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

Yea....this Jet is cool...

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

From the picture it appers that the main gear spacing is very close. This could be fun in any crosswind. Give me the F4 layout any time. :D

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

Guys....

I havent flown it as yet...but its sure is for sale at Kajoor Power Jets........check it out at (.................... ), FYI this is one good quality product.................eat your heart out BVM !! :)

cheers
Aziz

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

I had the opportunity to check out Malcom Kay's at Superman. It looks very cool---kinda like a jet powered Long EZ. The only thing that got any negative attention, for me, was the rudder. As everyone knows the AMA requires a rudder for our jets. The rudder on the Gryphon is on the bottom center of the fuse. (like a ventral fin) If you ever had a gear failure, that rudder is history. It also looked low enough to the ground that it could scrape the ground if over rotated or on a high alpha landing. It possibly could get ripped off on a grass strip if snagged. It appears that if the rudder did get ripped off it would take out a considerable portion of the aft fuselage. Given the amount of area that the twin verticals have, and as small as the rudder is, I doubt it is very effective. The rudder on this model appears to be an afterthought.

Just my .02----Kevin

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

Hmmmm..... is it as high quality as the AD SU-27 that was flown at Superman this year? If so I wonder if it will make it all the way through a whole flight either. If I recall correctly the rudders blew off the SU-27. Let the airplane show it's own merits or lack of such by flying it.

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

this is malcolm Kay, the Aviation Design distributor for the USof A The Gryphon is about to test fly this week here in Florida certainly by the end of the holiday weekend, powered by a Jet Cat P 80 all those who are interested I will post a report after the first flight. I would like to take this opportunity to set a couple points right. The sukhoi SU 27 at superman lost one rudder , I still have the other fin with rudder attached, and the plane flew on for two circuits without the lost rudder, one motor flamed out when in the dirty configuration as Jason set up for landing and the resulting drag caused the spin into terra firma, much too my great sadness as all who have built a large expensive model and lost it will testify. Now the Gryphon was designed with a rudder and a wide landing gear stance, anybody who thinks its narrow needs to pay a visit to his optemetrist, the rudder has an upswept curve too the trailing edge and the angle is such that it clears the deck when the aircraft rotates. and yes the rudder is vulnerable in the event of a gear failure, but a good pilot will flip it upside down and land on the upswept wingtips thus clearing any known obsticle and his rectum. for the sceptics among you... go buy a Bobcat..

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

WOW Malcolm, WOW!!!

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

Don't hold back now!!!!

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

Malcom,

Can't take a little constructive criticism, huh?!? Since your being a little "testy"----Maybe if the designer had cleared a known obstacle (his head) in relation to his rectum, the Gryphon would have incorporated the rudders into the verticals where they would be effective and where they really belong.

Kevin

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

Was the rigging on the SU-27 rudders designed by AD or do they even design the airplane with rudders? And....if I remember right the airplane was flown even though there was a continuing problem with one of the engines flaming out. Fortunately for all of us that were on that flightline it did not shed the vertical with the rudder and pile into the crowd.

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

As I recall the rudder linkage on the SU-27 had a great deal of slop in them---So much that the test pilot had great reservations on flying it and warned the owner that they were suspect and possibly prone to flutter. Guess what happened next.....

Kevin

"Chuffing Nora"
 

How does a post asking about one type of model turn into a "trash and gash" of another?

To those with nothing good to say

WIPE OFF YOUR NOSE. . .IT LOOKS DIRTY

Take it easy guys
 

Come on guys take it easy on Malcolm, he doesn't design these planes he sells them. If not for him where would you buy AD kits from anyways? No there not BVM but they can be great planes with the right owner/pilot. I have the F-16 and it flies great!! Mike

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

Trident,

If you knew what you were talking about you would not have to ask your question. I made a simple comment about the Gryphon rudder---my opinion. The USA distributor of that plane chose to carry his comments a step further than the customary good natured response---something about rectums....

I would imagine that David chimed in with his comment on the SU-27 rudders due to the fact that the Gryphon and the SU-27 were made by the same manufacturer. What David and I are questioning is whether or not the rudder setups on both planes were designed in or an afterthought. The SU-27 setup was garbage and UNSAFE!!!! The owner chose to fly it regardless.... The owner of the SU-27 needs to be called to the mat for flying a model that had obvious problems but was flown anyway---At a jet rally with HUNDREDS of pilots and two to three times that many spectators within an earshot of the flight line. Again---you don't know what you are talking about. After "seeing the light" are you still going to play RCU police?!? By-the-way...Who are you and why do you hide behind your screen name?

KEVIN

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

To add to Kevin's comments, the owner of the Su-27 made some bad decisions at Superman with that airplane. He also made some bad decisions at MS Afterburner this past year and cartwheeled his AD F-16 down the runway. As a matter of fact I was told he also flew behind, and over the pits at FIJR. The rudders linkages on the SU-27 were poorly engineered. The pilot was told this by several people yet he ignored their input. Maybe it is time to take a look at some of the pilots, builders, and designers of these airplanes before a really serious accident happens. And AD airplanes need to be designed a little better where control surface design is not left up to inexpereinced builders.

David Reid
No hiding here

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

Hey Kevin,

First of all, I wasn't talking to you directly - or at all. But since you asked, may I say this. I am merely responding to the fact that some use these forums for adverse reasons.

Now then, "seeing the light"? You mean to tell me that after I read your post I should have a greater understanding of jet modeling? You insinuate that your inturpitation of what happens at a jet event should be "if so Facto" because you say so? You suggest that I don't know what I am talking about because you suspect I was not at the aforementioned event. Oh I've been there.

Here is a question for you. Were you at Superman (1997) when the first BVM Bandit (with Full Flying Stabilizer - do you remember those?) had a Stab separate in flight? Were you there? Did you Post that Fact? Are you trashing that manufacturer because of this? Why Not? Oh, maybe because you weren’t there and therefore it doesn’t matter or never happened? Wake up pal!

Of course not. My point is this. Anyone could have watched what happened to the bandit that day and made a statement such as yours - but what is the point?

Finally, no I am not the police, but please, get off your high horse – I still don’t know (or care) who you are, nor do the majority or people who will read this so don’t try that crap. Just because you place your name on this post doesn’t give you some special presence in jet modeling – you are, like me, just another person on the Internet.

While we are on the subject.
 

For every one who attends these events. Or is planning on attending a large event. A word of warning goes out. Although these are "AMA" endorsed events this does not mean that they are safe.
I have been to non jet fly events with better safety. I have not been to an AMA jet event yet that has inspected a model for sefety devices ie. Failsafes, Proper building technics, AMA aproved turbine on board, and I have at one event not even had to supply proof of a Turbine Waiver.
On top of all this I have seen a lot of first flights at events. This could be one of the biggest infractions of all.
If you guys want to promote a safe and rewarding hobby.
FOR SAFETY SAKE QUIT BEING STUPID!!
As for the event staff. I seen many with safety issues in the field lay out.
The AMA uses CDs to police this. The CDs are the problem. They are more intrested in a friendly and productive event than a safe one. (Idea lets let the criminals be Judge of there own trials)
Maybe the AMA should start sending Safety Reps to events. (non bias safety reps)
Now I know you guys are going to attack me for this. If the truth is known these are the guys that are Stupid.
That is it for now.

Thunderjet

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

""Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?

Is anyone in the US currently flying the Aviation Design Gryphon? If so, can you talk alittle about the building process of the turbine kit and if flown, some of the flying characteristics of this jet? Thanks.""

I think its a good looking airplane, something I would love to own and fly. Looking forward to hearing about the flight reports.

Ray

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

Ok guys let me chime in here as this can turn into a good thread, or it can turn ugly. If you want it to continue in a constructive manner I would suggest that the posts get a lot less hostile. If you are unable to this then don't post to it. I really would hate to shut this one down because some are unable to relay their thoughts in a constructive way with out the descriptive adjectives, just a little warning. Thank you and keep it civil please.

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

Trident,

Your comparison to the SU-27 incident and the Bandit stab blowing apart is comparing apples and oranges. The SU-27 owner KNEW that there was a potential flutter problem and chose to fly regardless of the warnings from others. I can tell you this---There is NO WAY IN HELL that the Bandit would have flown had BV known that there was even a hint of a stab problem. The difference between the two is that in BV's case, responsiblity and maturity prevailed. BV immediately pulled the plug on the full flying stabs and produced what is today one of the best, most popular and SAFEST sport jets in the world. THESE are the points that you keep insisting I push. I'm not the one needing the wake-up call. Incidentally, I've been to every Superman event except for '99 and '00.

I don't have a high horse or any hidden agendas---But I'm willing to bet your last car dealership that I've constructively contributed more to this hobby than yourself. Being a past JPO District 5 Rep (the first!) and having had a monthly published jet column for a few years I can say that I've helped to mold what this facet of the hobby has become today. I may be just another person on the internet but I stand behind what I say with my NAME. Trident---that's a name for a class of submarines that trolls below the oceans waiting for a chance to pounce....Your screen name suits you well-------

Kevin

Thunderjet,

Years ago I attended a jet rally that had a requirement that all models pass a tech inspection. For the most part, the models being built would have easily passed the test. The SU-27 would have never passed such a test. I would like to see us continue to monitor ourselves and help others that need it. What do you do to the horse that you lead to water but will not drink?---The CD's need to step up to the plate and enforce the rules that we have. I would bet that had Jerry Caudle been made aware of the rudder problem on the SU-27, he would have grounded it. In todays "sue happy" world there is too much at stake in the event of a catastophic accident. All it takes is one and you could possibly kiss this aspect of the hobby goodbye. The domino effect would be great for all of the jet manufacturers.

Kevin

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

Kevin,

Wow. . you get a prize for being swell! However I was mearly reacting to what I felt was an unprovoked attack. I want to take the moderators advice and keep this civil so I'll just say this.

This posted started by asking about modelers thoughts on a given model. You used this post (lets face it - right or wrong) to attack another modeler and companies reputation. I felt what you said was out of bounds, that doesen't make me police of anything but if you feel as though you can say what you want here, why do you get upset about what someone else says?

Also, While you have been around for a few years, maybe I have too. Who cares? Do you feel better knowing I have been to ALL Supermans - ALL FL Jets, Many MASTERS, most TOP GUNS? Whats the point?

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

Hey Kevin,

I never owned a car dealership in my life.

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

Trident,

My bad!!! I gave you more credit than you deserved after looking at your profile. My initial post did not attack Malcom Kay. I said what was my .02 about the plane. Have you seen the rudder on the Gryphon? Up close??? I did---Malcom pitted next to me at Superman. Got to look at that plane for DAYS. I said that it looked cool, remember? I just thought that the rudder needed a little more work---Again my .02!!! I have heard nothing from any other modelers to discredit or cheer my observation. As far as the comments on the SU-27---They were deserved. Normally, crashes weed out the persons not suited to build or fly jets. However, some folks have more bucks than ability and don't get the hint....Until they injure, mame (sp?), or KILL someone. Some are VERY dangerous. I hear no one coming to this modelers defense because everyone that has FIRST HAND knowledge of the situation knows the true story. You say that I (we) were out of bounds. When it comes to my safety---No, OUR safety I will not relent. This is why I questioned your post---you knew nothing of this incident but put your .02 in....See?

Kevin

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

Well said Kevin! Some guys that are out there flying these jets right now really need to take a closer look at their abilities or lack thereof and either attempt to become better modellers/pilots or at least listen to the more experienced guys in the crowd. Safety should be everyone's number one concern.

Enough!
 

Ok guys, enough is enough. Kevin, Malcom, Trident thanks for your comments on the AV Gryphon. Does anyone else have any other comments about THIS particular kit? I'm just looking for opinions, or someones "2 cents worth" on the kit.

I'm not interested in hearing about the SU-27 in this particular post. We could start another post on that subject alone. Thanks!

..
 

Brandt,

Should never have listened to me.. :)

We can talk offline in regards to some of the people/opinions who have posted here.

Kevin

P.S Have a great Thanksgiving

Aviation Design
 

Brandt, for your past help, I will chime in for some info on only the AD line! I own their F-16 and A SU37, I know your looking for some info on the Gryphon. I will give you info on the Kit Quality you will surly see in the Gryphon,they are highly prefab and take very little extra effort in the rudder department, the quality of their kits ranks in the top group of kit manufactures.I wouldn't recommend to go out and get one until it has been prov en :), was wondering if your looking for a first or a second Jet?

rudders
 

Guys,

I won`t get into the above flaming but I have built and flown three different AD jets. They all didn`t have factory designed rudders, I believe Eric feels they do not need them but the AMA here in the US does. I was able to convert the three jets to have rudders with normal building procedures and have had no problems with stabs fluttering etc.

Vin...

Rudders again
 

Good point Vin, maybe that would explain the odd rudder design on the Gryphon (just for AMA) U.S. variant.
I also fly my AD F16 'Without rudder function' although I do have one installed incase I want to fly south of the border.
I also have an Avonds F15 without rudders and will not install rudders, both kits were designed without the need for rudder operation/inclusion. The Gryphon should fly very well also, based on Eric's previous designs especially the AD F16. I have been flying R/C for over 28 years everything from gliders to giant scale and jets and the AD F16 is still the best/easiest flying jet model I have owned... I would not hesitate in recommending Aviation Design products and aftersales service, and very good value for money.

AD F-16
 

Marty,

I agree with you about the AD F-16, mine "was" the easiest flying scale jet I have ever owned. An unexplained flameout this past spring caused some serious damage,I still have it but its in bad shape.

Vin...

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

Byron Man and Kevin Barr, I also like the way the Gryphon looks. I hope that when Malcolm completes the test flights he will share the results with all of us. I would love to have one someday. Mike Haddox

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

We do already start to build two Gryphon. The quality of the kit is perfect.

We keep in kontakt and send new information when we have some.

http://www.jets.at/images/Jetparadekl.jpg

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

Hi

Tell me more about the SR 71 in the photos. Can I put two turbines in it. Do you have any specifications and costs?
Thanks

About my posts
 

To those of you who are here for this threads' origional purpose please excuse some of the above bickering. I just can't stand to watch an innocent thread where sincere questions are asked (like this one) be used by someone like KG to lash out at others so please excuse me for a moment.

Kevin,

So you want to attack me now? Great!

I feel sorry for guys like you. Your whole purpose is to insure that what ever you fly, it is seen to be the "in thing to have". Hell, your worst nightmare is waking up and finding that the equipment you own is not considered to be "the right stuff" by those you so desperately want to "hang" with. You are constantly changing your agrument to support that purpose. I chose to step in to this post when you were using this forum to attack a guy for your own selfish reasons (whether you know it or not).

I too understand saftey issues and agree that some of what has brought about your posts has merit. I was there - remember. I don't want unsafe pilots either but lets face a few facts. Dealing with those issues has its place - a posting asking about opinions on a particular model that you have never owned or even seen flying is not where you can apoint yourself ZAR of saftey issues and attack a guy in hopes that everyone will see your point of view.

This has been my point from the beginning no matter how you try to twist this agrument. I think perhaps a safety formum on jets is warrented for just such a sort of occasion but I think you should agree that this isn't the place - or am I wrong?

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

Trident,


JEEEEZ!!! I made a comment about the rudder on the Gryphon. I said that it looked cool....PERIOD!!! I did not make an attack at all. It was an observation and my opinion. Since noone has seen a Gryphon fly in the US I thought that Byronman would want some info from someone that took more than just a casual glance at this plane. Malcom then attacked R/C Man telling him that he needed glasses for his observations and then attacked me by saying something about rectums. What did he mean----If I didn't get out of the way while landing upside down the Gryphon would fly up my *ss?!? Yeah, I blew my cool and could have shrugged it off but I didn't. Along you came with your "chuffing Nora" crap. I said that you are the internet police 'cause that's what you are! Your first two posts EVER on RCU were to chastise David Reid for a remark he made and then in another post you chastise some more modelers for their posts saying something like "can't we all just get along?" I do my homework before making an accusation. After seeing your first two posts I quit looking. It is obvious what you want to be.....If you want to be a moderator-----Apply!!!

Yes, this has really gotten out of hand----I didn't start this and I don't care how it ends. If you want to continue on then do so without me---I'm tired of wasting my time with you.

As to the rest of you---I apologize if my remarks offended anyone. Sometimes things get said in the heat of the battle that shouldn't be said. I wish all of you a safe and bountiful Thanksgiving. Family and friends---That's what it's really about.

Kevin

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

I bought this SR 71 private made in germany. The length is 116 inches. It is possible to use two turbines or one in the midle.
It looks simular to the yellow.

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

Malcolm, Can you tell me what the price is on the Gryphon? Please include every available option. Thanks, Mike Haddox

Thoughts on Aviation Design Gryphon?
 

mike, sorry , i have not replied to you sooner, but i ended up in the hospital on thanksgiving with kidney stones,.........back in the fold today... please e. me on [email protected] with your e-mail address and i will give you all the info, it's all in stock now for immediate delivery with kevlar fuel tank of 2.4 litre. robart retracts and struts, wheels tires and brakes .