Jet prices especially BVM?
 

Holy cow the Balsa bandit is now $1,400!!!!!!! I mean common! It is half wood! Didn't it use to be nearer to 1,000? -Steve

Jet prices especially BVM?
 

Steve, I am not affilliated with BVM nor do I own one of his aircraft at this time. A couple of months ago I had the opportunity to tour his operation. I now have a little more respect for the price and his product. It is first class operation turning out a first class product. I now have a Bob Cat on order and should be here next week. Another thing, if I need service or parts, etc., BVM will be there.

Bob, future Bob Cat flyer.

Jet prices especially BVM?
 

And one hell of a grill man if I remember correctly.

Nice to hear ya Bob. I hope all the Austin Gang is doing well.

Jet prices especially BVM?
 

Chris, also one heck of a crash truck driver.

The Austin Gang is alive and well.

Thanks, Bob

Jet prices especially BVM?
 

And..... a Hellluva nice guy to boot..... to bad he hangs out with the rest of that riff raff!

BVM Jets
 

Steve, yes the jets are very expensive from BVM. However after buying and building three of them, I can tell you that a great deal of what you pay for is the research and development that goes into the design of all of their products which results in one of the finest jet kits on the market. Both from a building and flying aspect.
Everything is thouroughly tested prior to any release of their products which results in one thing, Reliability. This not only includes the aircraft, but also everything from Aeropoxy glue to brake valves and all of the turbine conversion kits. I know this from having the many conversations with BVM over the years. They have the reps in the field to do the flight testing to be certain that it all works prior to releasing their products. Sometimes you have to wait a little longer to get things like the
F-86 conversion kit which I have recently purchased and installed, but you can be sure that it is fully tested and of the highest quality when it goes to market. The F-86 conversion was very complete and everything fit perfectly because of the R&D and testing that went into the design and flight testing prior to the release of the kit.
Another great feature of buying a Violett kit is that when you call them on the phone and ask for help in the building process, you will be speaking to someone that has probably either helped with the design or has built many of these aircraft and really are professionals that can answer any question you have when you get stuck and don't know where to turn.
Jets is not an inexpensive hobby and if you are going to fly them you can expect to pay a lot of money. There are less expensive kits on the market, but beware that some of these companies are very small operations and many have come and gone in the last few years. BVM has has been around for a long time and is always on the cutting edge of new technology which is what you will pay for to a certain extent...But that is what keeps this section of the hobby new and exciting...Without people like Bob Violett we would all still be flying ducted fan models....Good Luck, Gary

prices
 

Yeah - BVM stuff isn't exactly cheap, but from my experiences so far it is worth the money, and I have confidence in BV's staying power.

Wish I could say the same about another jet kit I bought - about $4500 for a kit that was IMO pretty poor quality, and whose manufacturer quit the business before I got my aircraft airborne. I'd better hope that I don't ever need spares for it.

It's more than just the actual price tag that matters.

Gordon

Jet prices especially BVM?
 

Ive built two BVM jets, the first was the B/Bandit when I opened the box I must admit I was very disapointed and could not see value for money. Infact if it was any other make of kit it would have a price tag of only a few hundred dollars. But I started building anyway. So I layed plan out and started assembly, this kit went togeather like no other, there has been a lot of thought and work behind the doors of the BVM workshop on this kit. Then I needed to ask a question so I phoned BVM, the phone was answered straight away and I was put through to somone who knew this model inside out and gave me the advice I needed. Then I had the test flight some months later, It took of and flew absolutly supurbly, quite simply the best sport jet around.
So, yes the BVM kits are not cheap but they are the best and you are guaranteed success.
One the other hand it is plain to see why BVM have stopped producing the more reasonably priced Maverick, Agressor,Viper etc, the kits are obviously more expensive to produce as the wings stab and fin are made of foam and are glass, carbon and ply reinforced under the balsa skins and not sheets of wood loaded into a laser cutter like the current kits.And all the same hardware in the kit plus hundreds of dollars cheeper. But I suppose they are protecting there profit margins which is ok and hopefully they will convert some of these kits to turbine at some time.

jason

Jet prices especially BVM?
 

I am just speculating here but I think a big part of the reason why the Maverick, Aggressor, Viper have been removed is that BV felt they were not up to his standards for suitablilty of a turbine model. Again that goes back to BV's "Success in Jets" guarantee. I think you will find that anyone that has built a BVM jet or two wil continue building them.

David Reid

just the best
 

Here's the whole truth, "you get what you pay for". I am modeler of over 35 years in the hobby and have worked in the business end for now about 15 years in total.I have suffered through many years of poorly enginerried kits. I have just finished my Bobcat that took me 30 hours from start to finish. The kit is well thought out and fun to build. I got my first taste of the bvm stuff when I got the F-16 years ago, that one was built during my Xmas vacation that year. Since then it been mostly all BVM for me. My time is very valuable to me as well. I know first hand in what it takes to produce that kind of product. I have just sold our thrid Bobcat kit in the last 4 weeks at the store where I work. There is now at least a 10 week wait to get one so that in it self tells how popular they are. Just ask yourself how much time to YOU want to spend making the thing work, with the BVM stuff you just follow the directions and bam you are ready to go flying. This is not to say the there are not others in the game that make a good product, however they just don't come up the the level of the BVM stuff. I tell customers all the time you got BVM and then everybody else; some good. some bad. but all below the bar.I let them decide. usually the BVM guys are happy in the end everybody else is happy with the price until they start building. :D

BVM
 

Ron,

I must chime in here. Price is a function of supply and demand, PERIOD!!


BVM products are great, I have 2. However, I do feel the price is high for the average "sport" pilot. This is why I shop RCO & RCU to buy used parts and kits. If you are only referring to the high end of model(miniature) aircraft, you can't go wrong with a BVM product.

Jet prices especially BVM?
 

Ron,

30 Hours????? Get out of here!!!! I have built 2 now, and I am a fast builder. Hell..... I have spent 30 hours in the last week sanding on the damn thing. I figure I will spend at LEAST 50 hours painting, and rigging it out in the next week.

Jet prices especially BVM?
 

Did I read that right 30 hours to build a bobcat? Can anyone confirm that as I was thinking of getting one but when I found out it was the same construction as my B/Bandit I changed my mind as that took me at least 400 hours!

jason

Bobcat building time
 

Jason
I just built my Bobcat and it certainly wouldnt take as long as your bandit did. I didnt keep a strict eye on how long it was taking me so im just ballparking but i would guess i have 30 to 40 hours into it sofar, and I have just a couple hours work to do to finish up with the fit of the booms to wing and booms to stab stuff
and its ready for finish. I figure it has took me about twice as much time to this point as the Hotspots I have built did.

Jack

Bobcat build time
 

Jason,

My first Bobcat took me approximately 40 hours to get to the point where I was ready to glass it. I could have built it faster, but was more concerned with an accurate build than a fast build.

My second Bobcat build is certainly going faster, in part because I now know what all the parts look like and where they fit. (My first one was a very early model and did not have the improved manual and packaging layout that the newer kits have).

However, I probably spend at least another 20 hours on finish (glassing, priming, painting, decals etc), and probably another 10 hours or so on rigging. So - for me its probably about 60 to 70 hours all-up.

It *is* a quick and easy build though, compared to most other kits (and even so-called ARFS) that I've built so far. I have at least another 3 'cats lined up to build after this one, and all of my other, more awkward, building projects have now been relegated to my trailer ! ;-)

Regs,
Gordon

Jet prices especially BVM?
 

What do you guys count as building time???? I can glass a Bobcat in two evenings with third for adding the second coat of resin. It took me about 16 hours to build the center section complete with sanding, hatches, ready for glass. I don't screw around when I build either. Priming painting and puttying has taken me forever but then I am real picky with my finishes as well. For example last night the airplane has been primed, puttied, ans sanded back out. I went over all of it and filled any other small imperfections, and spot primed. I got out into my shop at 7 PM and went into the house at 12:30 so that's another 5 1/2 hours. I spent the better part of one Saturday puttying the hatch on the fuselage.....are you guys doing that??? I just don't see 60-70 hours in building one. I will have about 100 hours just in the finish. I would think realistically it would take 150-200 hours to build a Bobcat.....at least the way I build.

Bobcat build time
 

David
I agree with you , for a Bobcat to turn out like you build it I know you can spend more time in finish than construction. When i say i built mine in 30 to 40 hours I mean all major construction done, but that dont include final sanding,fitting the booms to wing and stab or working on the canopy to fuse seam. I am going to film cover mine so that will save me a bunch of time with not having glass it. I would say I will have around 70 to 80 hours in it ready to roll, of course i most likely wont have an invisible canopy to fuse seam or fancy paint on the wings and stab. On the Hotspot I just painted I have like 20 hours in the paint job sofar and that was starting with a primed and ready to go airframe and i still have a couple pieces to cut and polish. So I think it would be quite easy to get up to the time your saying, to do a first rate job anyways.

Jack

What counts as building time ?
 

Hi David,

Good question.

Its just an estimate, not an actual log of time spent. If you care to ask my boss, he may tell you that my estimates are notorius ! (The same applies for my estimates of my calorific intake!) So, my times could be well off. BTW, I started trying to keep an actual log of time once, but kept forgetting to update it.

When I estimate building time, its just the time spent actually working on the plane, not the amount of time spent in the workshop - which is easily 50% higher due to everything from cleaning and preparing my tools to just standing there thinking. (or staring at the various posters on the walls - yumm!)

I've built highly detailed scale R/C models in which I put in many hundreds of hours just to get everything perfect. My Bobcat, on the other hand, isn't meant to win any awards, so I'm not putting that level of work into it.

You're doing things I'm not. 5 1/2 hours worth of puttying the hatch ? I only have a small amount of putty at the front and rear of the hatch, which took very little time. 2 coats of resin ? Nope - just one. As for the finish - well, mine's a turbine trainer / beater, so again I'm not putting in the same level of effort as you.

This brings to mind a conversation we had at the field a while ago. One of my club's best scale builders told us he was bringing a G-Shark (an ARF) one day instead of his warbirds. Surprised, I asked him why he owned an ARF, and he said that he had just wanted something that he could throw together really quickly. When he brought the aircraft out, it was immaculate, and had beautiful detailing everywhere. His idea of a "quick throw together airplane" was a higher standard than most people's "scale jobs", and he probably had several hundred hours in that "ARF". In other words, you can't really compare the times for "just building" (like some of us do) with the times for true craftmanship (which it sounds like you do).

Later,
Gordon

Jet prices especially BVM?
 

Gordon...etal...

I did not mean to sound snobbish or my plane is better than yours. I tend to count that time I spend drooling on the posters, or through the documentation as building time. OK some nights I do more goofing off than building. I am looking at the Bobcat as a nice sport jet. My Bandit has gotten a little ragged after 2 years and I want something that looks good. I actually really enjoy sanding and filling and trying to do all the little extras.....which rolls around to another point. BVM's kits, specifically the glass work usually are very good so that a whole lot of that kind of work is not needed. TIme for me to go and spend another 5 or 6 hours in the shop.....ain't it great!!!

No worries
 

No worries David - I didn't read your post that way.

If I counted all my drooling time as building, then I have a few thousand hours in before I ever got started on my first airplane !

Well that's enuff chat... I'm home now, so its time to go into the garage and do some droo... uh building !

Gordon

Jet prices especially BVM?
 

You wouldn't happen to mean CAI would you? I heard they used to make some of the best "kits" out there... -Steve

Jet prices especially BVM?
 

Hi Guys,
Just thought I'de put my two cents in. Yes the stuff does cost alot, but that is the very reason why I try to put my best effort into any of BV's kits. Wether its a Bobcat or an F-100, they deserve your best effort. I've been a BV rep for almost 14 years now and I'm still amazed with the quality of his stuff.
Bill Harris

Jet prices especially BVM?
 

Yes, I was talking about CAI.

Regarding the quality of the kit, I must respectfully disagree about them being one of the best. I don't have enough time to type in all of my impressions here, but suffice it to say that my INITIAL impressions of the kit were very favorable, but when I tried to assemble the parts into an actual aircraft, I became less and less impressed. Such a pity .. it's a gorgeous looking aircraft.

If I could get the CAI "looks" with the BVM quality, I would be a very happy guy. (No offense meant to bandit owners, but I just think that in the looks department the Raptor had the Bandit licked ;-)

YMMV,
Gordon

Jet prices especially BVM?
 

Scotsmen never had any taste anyway ;).....

Jet prices especially BVM?
 

Yeah .. and 'merkans nevir koold spel ! (Try agin wiff just wun T)

Hey - wots this I hear from Ehab that you aren't coming out to play this weekend ? Suddenly we're not good enough for you ? <JK>

Later,
Gordon