Doing the Right Thing
 

This post is about “Doing the Right Thing” and I am curious about what you think is the “right thing”.
Please keep this dialog respectful. Be truthful, not a flame thrower.

About a week ago there was a post regarding a “stolen jet”.

See: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_57..._1/key_/tm.htm. Or search under “Stolen Jet” or member “Clouseau” or member “½ time show”.

This post was in regards to a Skymaster F-4 jet that was for sale on the RCU classified page. The post was questioning the legitimate ownership of this jet but unfortunately deteriorated into flaming the seller’s poor spelling and grammar rather than the ownership of the jet. There were some misunderstandings and other points that need to be clarified. Some people did not like the word “stolen” since the F-4 jet had been delivered by mistake and not physically taken from someone. So if it was not “stolen” I would like to ask was it the “right thing to do” to keep the F-4 jet?

Now to recap and clarify this story: Bob Moore had ordered and paid for a Skymaster F-18 jet which was to be delivered to him by DHL freight. A few days before the F-18 was delivered a Skymaster F-4 jet was dropped off on Mr. Moore’s porch by mistake. Clarification: The shipping tags on both planes were addressed to Bob Moore at his correct address. The shipment of the F-4 was a mistake made by the shipper in Taiwan. Skymaster models apparently had some accounting errors and shipped the F-4 jet to Bob in Kansas when it should have been shipped to a customer in Florida. It is possible that Skymaster mistakenly labeled the F-4 boxes with Mr. Moore’s name and address since he was a current Skymaster customer.

DHL freight delivered the F-4 jet boxes to the addressee’s porch and left them without a signature. Some days later DHL returned to Mr. Moore’s home and requested that the boxes be returned. He told the DHL driver that he did not have the boxes. His statement to DHL is not true. Bob Moore has been seen and heard bragging about the “gift” at local flying fields and hobby shops. There are even pictures of Bob and the jet on the Internet!

Doing the Right Thing Question: Being a customer of Skymaster and knowing that the delivery of the F-4 jet was in error, does Mr. Moore have the right to lie to the DHL driver and keep the jet or should he had contacted Skymaster? Even now after he has flown the F-4 should Bob Moore return the jet to Skymaster?

After the first posting regarding the F-4 jet an email was forwarded to me from one of Mr. Moore former “friends”:

**** Start of email quotation *****

I've known Bob Moore since about 1992 and up until about a year ago I considered him a friend. In 2002 while stationed at Ellsworth AFB in South Dakota I sent Bob a Top Flight Stinson SR-9 kit, 10 Hitec servos, a Stans Fiber tech glass kit for the Stinson, a cockpit kit and a Saito 1.80. The deal was he would frame up the plane to pay me back for the 350 dollar Century Jet retracts and struts I "gave" him. I told him no big deal on the time line and just let me know when to pick it up. In 2004 I got the Saito back from him because I needed it. In 2006 after several attempts to get in touch with him failed I simply stopped in on him on my way back from the AMA Nats. Needless to say all of my stuff was gone. All I got was some lame excuse...none of my stuff. Two weeks later my friend John Balcom finds the kit with the fiber glass. Some poor guy in Wichita bought it for $150.00 from Bob. The man was honorable and agreed to split the cost with me so for $75.00 I got the kit and glass back. The gear, struts, servos and cockpit kit were of course gone.

I do not consider Bob Moore a friend any more and urge anyone contemplating any kind of an RC business transaction with him to run away as fast as they can.

Greg Thomas
Las Vegas, NV

**** End of email quotation *****

In closing, please post your own experiences regarding “Doing the Right Thing” and please don’t “flame” just to “flame”, just be truthful.

We need to police our hobby! Nobody else will!

RE: Doing the Right Thing
 

He was unduely enriched due to error-To keep the item is morally (unquestionably) , ethicly (unquestionably) and legally (questionably) wrong. He is wrong-period. Scott

RE: Doing the Right Thing
 

A few years ago I ordered a rather high doller item to be shipped COD. I got home from work and there was my item dropped off by the UPS guy. I put it in my shop and went in the house to discover the envelope with the money to pay the driver still sitting on my desk. I asked my wife and she wasn't home when the delivery was made. She had found the box on the porch. This was before email, so I dropped the shipper a note. A few days later the driver stopped by my work, and told me he had made a mistake, and he was going to have to pay the bill or loose his job. I gave him the money, signed the card, and that was the end of it. I could have stiffed him, but would that be right? Wonder who got stuck with Mr. Moores bill? Probably Skymaster. Bob

RE: Doing the Right Thing
 

Mr. Moore is an unethical piece of human garbage who's name should be smeared so that he is too embarassed to show his face in public.
He should be forced to take spelling classes also. Sorry, but lousy spelling just really gets to me!
Paul Reese

RE: Doing the Right Thing
 

It's simple, the guy is a thief. He knowingly kept something he found on his doorstep that he knew did not belong to him. But don't worry, what goes around comes around, he will get his just deserts someday. A year or two ago we had some landscaping work done, when the bill arrived it was about £300 less than I was expecting, the landscaper had made an error in adding up the bill, I wrote the cheque for the correct amount and let him know. Next week I received a gift of a dinner and wine for my Wife and I at a good restaurant. Honesty is always the best policy.

John

RE: Doing the Right Thing
 

I agree with Paul, Mr Moore is a unethical human being:( I don't wish bad things to happen to someone but in this case, I hope comeback 100 fold to this low life. IMO he is lower than whale feces.
Semper Fi
Joe

RE: Doing the Right Thing
 

What I am oblivious to is why DHL does not prosecute the guy. When they returned to his residence he admittedly "lied" to them. Keeping the boxes in my opnion was essentially stealing them, Iirregardless of what the state law in that province says. I don't know the guy, but I know many like him. Evidently they fail to realize somebody, somewhere is going to have to pay for that, whether it was DHL or the shipper (who will turn around and have to add it to his future sales, therefore passing it back around to us, the consumer). They look at it as something free, something for nothing, don't worry it's insured....I am sorry I just don't understand this kind of thinking. I guess my parents raised me differently.
I don't fault the guy for his spelling, goodness knows I make enough of those errors myself, but poor judgement should not be forgiven so easily.
Tommy

RE: Doing the Right Thing
 

This topic is really about ethics...basically what is right and what is wrong......since this concept is taught to people when they are very young it is so easy to blame ones parents/teachers/clergy if somehow ones sense of personal honor is below standards.IN mr Moores case....he clearly saw nothing wrong with his actions....his accepting an expensive kit that he knew he had not paid for and later denied receiving at all ...than bragging about his "winfall"unfortunately is all to common in modern society.THe prisions in society are full of people with no sense of ethics.We have all met people like mr Moore....you all know them ..for what ever reason...they feel the world owes them something...they have bad jobs/unsucessful relationships/no moral compass...they will always attempt to get the better of you.WE have all had friends like this ...and they are usually clueless as to why they are avoided.So are the mr Moores of this world the social norm.....I hope not...but then i am reninded of the other extreme in human behavior...last week I attended a hanger barbeque at our airport....about 200 guys show up to show off their cool toys...cars/motercycles/aircraft etc...we always have guest speakers and 2 years ago we started inviting medal of honor winners...they come from all over the us and this years we dispatched a lear 35/citation ultra/cessna 412 to pick them up....anyway after listening to these 3 guys stories...you soon forget about the Moores of this world....just my 2 cents...kelly

RE: Doing the Right Thing
 

Somehow I always thought that those of us in this RC thing we call a hobby/passion/obsession would have at least a bit of higher regard for those of us that share such a specific interest. That includes the guys that lay their financial necks on the line to provide us with really cool stuff to further our pursuits.

I am disappointed whenever I hear of a guy who gets something stolen at a meet or at the field. I feel the same way about this. We are family in an extended sort of way. When you have to watch your back among family there is something seriously wrong.

RE: Doing the Right Thing
 

I once had a package dropped off at my door by UPS. It was addressed to a different person at a different address. It was not mine, so I simply called UPS and told them they made a mistake. They apologized and sent a driver to fetch the package. I didn't and still don't know what was in the package. Maybe it was something expensive I could have sold, but that never occurred to me because it simply was not mine. I feel that is the position Mr. Moore should have assumed when he found the F4 in his package and not what he had ordered. Especially when DHL asked him to return the package he should have come clean and turned it over.

RE: Doing the Right Thing
 

I feel the same way here. Our community essentially polices itself! At a fly-in I feel comfortable enough to leave equipment lying around, and doors unlocked. I would hate to have to change that just because there is a bad apple among us.

In retrospect, Mr. Moore should humbly call Skymaster and ask how much a Phantom PLUS shipping is to his location.

"Thank you, sir, here is my credit card #."

Done.

RE: Doing the Right Thing
 

Unfortunately due the high $ value of the products in the jet kits and jet related products, the real image of some people is beginning to show.

On a business level, today I managed to catch yet another modeller trying to use a fraud credit card to purchase a kit from us and he is in North America and not far away. A few months ago, it was turbines from a different customer.

The F4 in question here should have gone to Ken Stitt who paid over $5,000 for it and he is still without a kit and not able to recover his funds.

We have to be very cautious who we deal with unfortunately and thieves are getting craftier every day.

Good luck Ken

Peter

RE: Doing the Right Thing
 

EICAS (Peter)

I have done some research here on RCUniverse and have found that the Bob Moore jet and the still undelivered Ken Stitt jet are unrelated. Ken ordered his jet three weeks after Bob’s “miracle” F-4 arrived. Bob had been bragging about his new F-4 long before Ken even ordered his.

Cato

RE: Doing the Right Thing
 

That's interesting....

RE: Doing the Right Thing
 

Theft of goods period!

RE: Doing the Right Thing
 

I am the customer in Flordia for whom the kit was originally intended. I have all the original notes from Anton and DHL on the mistake and attempted recovery.

FWIW, Anton immediately shipped me another kit, so to answer the question asked earlier, Anton is the one who ended up with one less kit in the inventory and no money for it. I did speak to Mr. Moore a few days ago by phone. I urged him to pay for the kit or ship it to me and I would sell it and return the funds to Anton, who has asked for any assistance I could give him in the recovery. I did get a return email from Mr. Moore a few days after the call and he basically said "forget it".

We don't have many manufacturers in this business. These fine people, who don't get rich selling model airplanes to all of us, make it possible for us to go enjoy this hobby. To take advantage of a manufacturer, whether it is legal or not, is absolutely wrong in my opinion and it hurts every one of us.

RE: Doing the Right Thing
 

Well I say we just shoot the guy and get it over with. That being said, what he has done is not ethical or moral in my book, but what can we do. The other part that we are overlooking is the mistake from teh factory who sent the model out. Why would you send and expensive package of this type and not require a signature??? Seems like a bad move on the company's part, as bad as it is to say. Their mistake will cost them some money, but responsibility goes hand in hand on both sides of the bridge.

RE: Doing the Right Thing
 

simple if he advertise it for sale no buys it from him.low lifes like him gets what is oweing to him even bar him from all flying sites in the usa maybe he will get the message

RE: Doing the Right Thing
 

Attention all RCU Jet pilots:

I need to clear up this matter about Mr. Moore as there has been too many things (mostly bad) said in this post (some highly emotional), so here is the SM perspective.

Skymaster shipped (via DHL) an F18E (correctly), and an F4 (by mistake) to Mr. Moore. DHL were the shipping agent. I immediately sent another kit to Mr. Keith Sievers (the intended recipient). I have also discussed this matter with DHL and consider this subject CLOSED.

Please understand that Skymaster has lost all costs of the F4 sent (in error) to Mr. Moore. We included a low invoice and subsequently only low amount can be claimed. If Mr. Moore decides to return it - or even if he sells it, Skymaster does NOT have a problem with him personally. But we hope he will still do the right thing.

As the President of Skymaster, I run a large factory, but I am primarily a MODELER at heart. I do not like all the mud-slinging that is going on would really appreciate it if this matter were left alone now and Skymaster considers the subject CLOSED. Please leave Mr. Moore alone.

Many thanks for all your kind support,

Yours sincerely,

Anton Lin
President: Skymaster

RE: Doing the Right Thing
 

THEFT BY DECEPTION.......Pure and Simple! I say that we find out what channels he flies on, publish the info, and "make sure" that his RF link is if no value at the field...............

This hobby has no room for this guy....period.

Tailwinds,

John

RE: Doing the Right Thing
 

Anton,
How could you not have a problem "personally" with Mr. Moorepig?
You may turn the other cheek (and good for you), but the fact is...there is a scumbag amongst us...and, allowing this to go on is against what most of us feel is conducting of ethical behavior.
Now, we've all read about the infringement that is excepted/expected from the companies in the orient, and most of us find it detestable. Operating under these auspicies may make it easier for you to "blow off" what this jackarse has done, but I find Mr. Moorepig's actions deplorable and agree with Mr. Redman that he should be shot. What I'd really like to see is a "posse" of jet guys literally destroy the jet in question, including all of the components that the Moorepig has put into it.

Paul

RE: Doing the Right Thing
 

the person who sold me a turbine as perfect .then i had to spend 380pound getting it right ,

RE: Doing the Right Thing
 

The supplyer of the kit in question has made a statement about the position.

In light of that statement I am locking this thread.