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RE: p-70 ingested something. please look
Sara, Wren does an outstanding job of making it right. it shows your passion for excellance and truely shows your ability to bring that to the end product. GOOD JOB!
Dennis |
RE: p-70 ingested something. please look
I didnt mention the performance because i wanted to debate the pros and cons of FOD screens.
I have run FOD screens on P120 and Titan engines without noticing any peformance difference, but I did notice a pretty significant drop on performance with a FOD screen on a P70 inside a Bandit ARF. The problem was as metioned before that the FOD ring closed off the air going past the turbine through the bypass, choking it off, killing performance. Obviously only a problem in a bypass senario. So.......Heads up. Scott |
RE: p-70 ingested something. please look
We found that FOD screens could make the engine run hot, because they were impeding the air flow. At first, we advised people not to fit FOD screens to the MW44 or the SuperSport, but to use screen mesh in the intakes of the plane because those two engines both draw in a large amount of air through a comparatively small intake. Our screens were originally used only for the turboprop, helicopter and MW54. Then we improved the FOD screens with extra mesh panels in the side, thinner struts (and therefore more area in the main section) and a different wire and width for the mesh. Since then we've been able to put a screen on an engine without any change in temperature, so all the engines have them now.
The best way to check if a screen is having a detrimental effect is to run the engine with it and without it, noting changes in temperature. If it's only a few degrees that shouldn't make much difference, but a big increase in heat is not good for the engine. Sara Parish Wren Turbines |
RE: p-70 ingested something. please look
ORIGINAL: WrenTurbines I think you are quite right, Sean. As a matter of fact, when we started making the FOD screens back in 2004 we thought everyone else would follow us - and we're surprised that they haven't. We think the after-market screens look very homemade compared with our design, but perhaps our competitors are trying to pick up more money by selling these as "extras" - or perhaps they are hoping for more FOD damage repairs? Sara Parish Wren Turbines Sara, Yes you had very nice FOD screen on your engine. But is not truth that everyone follow your idea. Real scale jet engine do have FOD screen and I do made FOD before 2004. So this statement from you is not correct. I didn't mean to correct your statement. But I find your statement had too much competitions advertisement. Which I don't think is fare on this forum for other. |
RE: p-70 ingested something. please look
Sara,
Those Wren look really nice. Id like to try one someday. Scott |
RE: p-70 ingested something. please look
I'd bet Tam isn't making much off his FOD screen sales. I have a feeling it was a service issue and something to get a little product placement for other sales that have a profit margin. He might likely even be losing money on the FOD screens, I don't know. But I bought one for a reasonable price and I'm glad I didn't have to make my own that might come apart and make it's own FOD!
Like Sean implies, it's a no brainier. However, I can certainly see why the issue is important to guys who may not have seen or heard the issues with FOD and how easily it can happen when you least expect it. As long as we continue to see new life come into jets with new guys, we should be ready and happy to preach FOD screens so they don't leave the hobby in "expensive repair bill disgust" because of something so simply avoided. |
RE: p-70 ingested something. please look
ORIGINAL: jetpilot I didnt mention the performance because i wanted to debate the pros and cons of FOD screens. I have run FOD screens on P120 and Titan engines without noticing any peformance difference, but I did notice a pretty significant drop on performance with a FOD screen on a P70 inside a Bandit ARF. The problem was as metioned before that the FOD ring closed off the air going past the turbine through the bypass, choking it off, killing performance. Obviously only a problem in a bypass senario. So.......Heads up. Scott So in this case do you suggest setting up a screen in the main intakes? I am at a point where I need to go fly my bandit arf...and need some FOD protection. |
RE: p-70 ingested something. please look
Tam,
I'm sorry if you thought I was not correct. Sean claimed that manufacturers didn't care if their customers' engines had FOD damage and I disagreed with him and said that we were doing our best to protect our customers' engines. I said that no other manufacturer makes an integral FOD Screen/motor mount which is sold as part of the engine. All other FOD screens are to some extent optional and fitted after buying the engine, whereas Wrens actually come with the FOD screen as standard from the factory. I said that we started to make the integral screens in 2004. I didn't say we were the first to provide any form of FOD screen, just the first to make it part of the engine. I know you have been making FOD screens for a long time and I said in a previous post that you had done a good job in providing FOD screens for JetCat. Sara Parish Wren Turbines |
RE: p-70 ingested something. please look
Rags,
Set up the screen in the intakes or find a screen that doesnt overlap the turbine. That FOD screen lip blocks the bypass airflow. Maybe a P60 FOD screen? Scott |
RE: p-70 ingested something. please look
Scott- I ran up against this same problem in my Mig with a 70. The FOD screen rim totally blocks off the bypass area. I think I have a solution (wont know till I get it finished and run it) I used one of Tams screens (BTW the best screen out there-its a real purpose built screen for each turbine). It has a rigid plastic ring for the outer rim. I cut/ground 4mm by 3mm (appx) notches all the way around the rim. This still allows the rim to remain rigid and will allow air to flow past it (we will see on that last statement) Scott
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RE: p-70 ingested something. please look
I wasn't going to clarify, but I guess I need to.
I'm not saying that you "don't care" about people getting FOD damage, what I'm saying is that if someone does get FOD damage, it's no skin off the manufacturer's back. You guys will repair it for a fee. I was implying I guess in a round about way that some RC jet pilots might install their engine for whatever reason without FOD protection, and am now saying if you do that, you can almost certainly expect to be paying said fee to get your engine repaired. And the manufacturers don't care whether your run your engine with or without. I guess I can see you taking exception to that statement considering you all apparently build one right into the engine, but if the user takes that off, I assume your office will still repair the engine for a fee. I still can't believe there is enough interest in this topic to make > 30 posts on the subject, I guess I'm too far removed considering I have been putting FOD protection on all my engines since the day I figured out what it was and what it did and what it saved me. FWIW, I did pay the $800.00 to someone along the way in my early days of turbine flying and it was a painful lesson. Scott, GSR, I love your solution, I'm tucking that one away in my memory. |
RE: p-70 ingested something. please look
ORIGINAL: WrenTurbines Tam, I'm sorry if you thought I was not correct. Sean claimed that manufacturers didn't care if their customers' engines had FOD damage and I disagreed with him and said that we were doing our best to protect our customers' engines. I said that no other manufacturer makes an integral FOD Screen/motor mount which is sold as part of the engine. All other FOD screens are to some extent optional and fitted after buying the engine, whereas Wrens actually come with the FOD screen as standard from the factory. I said that we started to make the integral screens in 2004. I didn't say we were the first to provide any form of FOD screen, just the first to make it part of the engine. I know you have been making FOD screens for a long time and I said in a previous post that you had done a good job in providing FOD screens for JetCat. Sara Parish Wren Turbines Sara, I just try to point out something from what it is sound like. If that is not what you mean. Don't worry about it. |
RE: p-70 ingested something. please look
ORIGINAL: GSR Scott- I ran up against this same problem in my Mig with a 70. The FOD screen rim totally blocks off the bypass area. I think I have a solution (wont know till I get it finished and run it) I used one of Tams screens (BTW the best screen out there-its a real purpose built screen for each turbine). It has a rigid plastic ring for the outer rim. I cut/ground 4mm by 3mm (appx) notches all the way around the rim. This still allows the rim to remain rigid and will allow air to flow past it (we will see on that last statement) Scott Scott and Scott, The P-60 FOD screen can modify to fit the P-70. This will solve your problem blocking air flow through the bypass. I had done this on my A-4 with the P-70. |
RE: p-70 ingested something. please look
Awesome Tam!!!!
I guess this is why we have 30+ posts on FOD!!!!! We actually learned something. Thanks for the help Tam Scott |
RE: p-70 ingested something. please look
Scotty-
If you remember at the Mississippi Afterburner I had a FOD on my P-70 Bandit ARF (in the bypass) I think we flew it like this 8 times and noticed it was a little sluggish. Dodgen said you didn't need one with the bypass. As soon as I took the FOD off there was a dramatic improvement......and now it kicks your Ultra Bandit's arse [X(] Stern |
RE: p-70 ingested something. please look
1 Attachment(s)
ORIGINAL: jetpilot Awesome Tam!!!! I guess this is why we have 30+ posts on FOD!!!!! We actually learned something. Thanks for the help Tam Scott Scott, Here is the photo of the P-60 FOD modify to fit P-70. I use dremel tool the remove some materail from the ring to clear the festo fitting. |
RE: p-70 ingested something. please look
Hi Tam,
Do you have those nice screens for the JetCentral engines as well? I really like the plastic for the cut-outs. I do remember the old days of cutting the hole for the starter and let me tell you guys - you have no idea how much damage the little piece of wire (that comes loose later) causes inside the engine. BTW, is that you or Presta writing?? Cause your english is getting better than mine !!:D:D Regards, Adil |
RE: p-70 ingested something. please look
ORIGINAL: Adil Nasim Hi Tam, Do you have those nice screens for the JetCentral engines as well? I really like the plastic for the cut-outs. I do remember the old days of cutting the hole for the starter and let me tell you guys - you have no idea how much damage the little piece of wire (that comes loose later) causes inside the engine. BTW, is that you or Presta writing?? Cause your english is getting better than mine !!:D:D Regards, Adil You can't not recognized my writing... You spend too much time reading Anton Lin email lately...;) Bee, Falcon, Eagle and Rhino prety much same size with Jetcat P-60, P-70, P-120 ant Titan. My FOD screen work perfect for it. |
RE: p-70 ingested something. please look
ORIGINAL: tamjets ORIGINAL: Adil Nasim Hi Tam, Do you have those nice screens for the JetCentral engines as well? I really like the plastic for the cut-outs. I do remember the old days of cutting the hole for the starter and let me tell you guys - you have no idea how much damage the little piece of wire (that comes loose later) causes inside the engine. BTW, is that you or Presta writing?? Cause your english is getting better than mine !!:D:D Regards, Adil You can't not recognized my writing... You spend too much time reading Anton Lin email lately...;) Bee, Falcon, Eagle and Rhino prety much same size with Jetcat P-60, P-70, P-120 ant Titan. My FOD screen work perfect for it. Your FOD screen will work on a TitanSE? Same one as the P60? dave |
RE: p-70 ingested something. please look
Dave,
I think Tam was comparing the sizes of the engines and not the size of the screens which are different for the different size engines... you know what I mean? So, I bought a FOD screen from Tam (Todd) for my Falcon but if it blocks the bypass in my Flash then I should have bought a screen for my P60 and modify it for the Falcon[:@] |
RE: p-70 ingested something. please look
By the way, I bought a TTS (Tam Tea Strainer) for the P60 right before he came out with the real nice ones[:@][:@]
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RE: p-70 ingested something. please look
ORIGINAL: causeitflies-RCU By the way, I bought a TTS (Tam Tea Strainer) for the P60 right before he came out with the real nice ones[:@][:@] Mark, Don't feel bad about it. I had over 75 of those in stock at the time when the new FOD screen delivery to my door. The only thing I can do is write off as a lost. |
RE: p-70 ingested something. please look
1 Attachment(s)
here is a Artes SuperBee with a tamjets FOD.
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RE: p-70 ingested something. please look
So Tam - I'm about to launch a Bobcat XL with flaps and a P-70 for the first time. Should I have a FOD screen on it? I flew my standard Bobcat with a Ram 500 for 3 years with out one and no problem. I wasn't planning on one for the P-70. After reading this thread perhaps I should re-think?
Galen |
RE: p-70 ingested something. please look
ORIGINAL: booker-RCU So Tam - I'm about to launch a Bobcat XL with flaps and a P-70 for the first time. Should I have a FOD screen on it? I flew my standard Bobcat with a Ram 500 for 3 years with out one and no problem. I wasn't planning on one for the P-70. After reading this thread perhaps I should re-think? Galen |
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