RE: Waiver question
 

My field's lease says the the field is leased to ".....a Chartered AMA Organization". I would think that means any flying there by an unsanctioned member or plane could cost us our field. I don't think JustABigKid got an answer though, it was more like an opinion the way I see it. I was an officer of my club when I had my stroke and that's the way I saw things and chose not ever to put (or let someone else put) my club and fellow fliers at risk. I may be a little conservative with this interpretation but it'll keep my 18 year old son flying as well as my fellow modelers. I don't know how I feel about a non-AMA pilot flying at a non-AMA field, I've never thought it.

RE: Waiver question
 

Anyone ever notice whenever some asks the AMA a question about something they
seem to always give somewhat of a vague answer and never come right and say
you can or cant do this or that will happen.

I think the AMA aready knows that some of the stuff they try to put over on us is
not only unfair but unreasonble.

RE: Waiver question
 

So, after a few days on this topic it looks like the following: If you are an AMA member you can not fly your turbine solo any place unless you have a waiver on file. You can fly on a buddy box with a waiver holder. The AMA insurrance covers you anyplace you fly. ANYPLACE!!!!! What will guys like me do? I guess I will have to travel for several weekends to find a good jet guy to buddybox with untill I can get my Waiver. This AMA rule was not set up for being the first turbine at your field. P.S. I have over 15gals through the Babby Boomer so let me know if I can Buddy Box with you and get the waiver.

RE: Waiver question
 

Gordon,

I'm having a little trouble swallowing your interpretation of Carl's or to the point, the AMA's position. It seems that you have come to believe that the AMA has jurisdiction on all of a member's actions. I find this hard to believe as fact. As stated earlier, what about the many long time AMA members who DO fly 100 lb / 300 mph jets at their places of employment? What about the many folks out there flying radio control prop planes that are in excess of 55....550..........1550 lbs? Certainly, these individuals are indemnified by their employer, so any losses would not even hit the AMA's desk for consideration. But you seem to imply that these folks would be banned from the AMA for their actions...loss or not. There are quite a few factory reps that I know who "violate" the AMA safety code daily at their primary places of employment.


If a guy wants to take ALL THE FINANCIAL RISK in some cow pasture or lake bed by flying outside the AMA safety code, then that is his choice.........................The folks in Muncie have no jurisdiction...............

Tailwinds,

John

RE: Waiver question
 

I already asked the AMA the question about those people who fly UAVs for a living, or fly for the movie business etc., as this seemed to me to not fit in with the info that the AMA had supplied previously. Here's the reply: (also from Carl)

RE: Waiver question
 

John,
Those guys aren't flying models. AMA is Academy of MODEL Aeronautics. They're flying UAVs. The FAA tells them what they can do.
If I had my own cow pasture, paved of course;)), I would do as I wanted.

chipperg,
No need to buddy box. Just go take the flight test.

RE: Waiver question
 

Seems simple to me if you want to fly a turbine without a waiver just say its
a commercial enterprise and the AMA would be fine with that.

RE: Waiver question
 

Mark P,

My point exactly.

Obviously, the likes of Tony Frackowiak, Chip Hyde, Bill Hempel, Sean McMurtry, Jason Shulman, Jason Sommes, etc STILL have their AMA numbers and are still allowed to fly at AMA fields even though the have operated aircraft via radio control that are clearly outside the AMA rules at non-AMA flying sites. They didn't ask for AMA participation (insurance) and were not covered while flying these non-models. These operations were/are OUTSIDE the jurisdiction of the AMA. How does the AMA know that they got paid for this?....They don't and they don't care because there haven't been any claims filed. But if someone attempted to collect, then Carl would pull out the policy and show the claimant the exclusion.

If a model or operator is outside the AMA rules at a non-AMA field, then the activity is not insured...................as Carl put it....Not forbidden from occurring. The flyer is sticking his neck out financially though.

Sort of like........If guy flies a 100 lb turbine model 300 miles an hour in the desert without a waiver but nobody from the AMA is there to see it...........did it REALLY happen?:)

Tailwinds,

John

RE: Waiver question
 

In reply to cactusflyer: The AMA covers you anyplace you fly regardless if it is AMA or not. ANYPLACE!!! So you have to have a weaiver regardless of flying site unless it is for business.

RE: Waiver question
 

I dont see where you have to have a waiver the AMA said they strongly
recomend a waiver but then again you can also make your flying a
business at any time.

RE: Waiver question
 

OK, I'll agree to that. You are covered...insured that is, anyplace so long as you follow the rules....................Again, not forbidden.

John

RE: Waiver question
 

Not quite true...........You are covered as long as you have the site owners permission. IE, If you own the site of course you are gonna give yourself permission to fly.

RE: Waiver question
 

I'm having trouble understanding the "sign off" process of the turbine waiver.

1. It favors flyers in the the states of Texas, California and Florida... where higher concentrations of "experienced turbine pilots", and Contest Directors with Turbine Waiver.
My state Oregon has 5 TW pilots, and none that are CDs. The closest to me is 2 hours, the others are 3 to 5 hours. The closest CD is in central California... 8 hours away.

2. The idea is to no doubt prove that an individual can operate and handle a turbine powered aircraft, however you can in fact prove your airworthyness with any plane that can exceed 100 mph. So you can be signed off without even firing up a turbine. Form 510-a item 22 page 3 option 1. What good is that?

3. What is the purpose of a CD that is also a TW pilot sign you off? Why not just a regular CD. If a person sees you can fly, and can keep it in control, does he need to be an experienced turbine expert to recognize that? What is the accountablility toward that CD? If he okays me, and I go fly a plane through a car the next week, is he going to go to CD prison for signing me off? I doubt it.

4. AMA provides secondary insurance.

RE: Waiver question
 

Need a CD to sign you off? Are you ready for it? call me. I'm sure we can find a day that will work for both of us. I'm sending you a PM.

RE: Waiver question
 

Which airport is close to you that I could fly into with a passenger airline?.

RE: Waiver question
 

OK, good. He called me so, all set for next May or so, sweet I get to go to Medford again, only one hour for me, that will save him the driving time :);).

Here are some pictures of my first turbine student which I got waievered about two months ago and Ed from Reno, Nv who I also helped to get his waiver, Ed owns this Reaction that came all the way from Florida and it had a totally diferent color scheme ( Yellow something ) and he totally turn it around and gave it a new life, my friend John also owns and build a Reaction, my Tamjet's F-16 that help me last Friday to get my friend Mark to get his waiver back after been gone for about a year and half.

RE: Waiver question
 

The habits and/or lack of flying skills that are most likely to allow a newbie turbine pilot to be successful, can usually be seen in that pilot's flying regardless of the powerplant being used.

It used to be that just any 2 CD's could sign off on the 'flying skill' portion of the waiver test. A bunch of CD's complained to the AMA that since they knew absolutely nothing about turbines, it made no sense for them to do a sign off. The AMA agreed, and required waivered pilots to do the sign-off from then on.

I don't know whether this still holds true or not, but the AMA previously stated that part of the reason for using at least one CD for the sign-off, is that the AMA is already set up to provide additional protection (insurance-wise) to CDs ; just as the person running an event is a target to be sued if an event participant screws up, so the siugn-off CD is a target to be sued if the signed-off party screws up.

Gordon

RE: Waiver question
 

Here I got some pics. for you guys to see, all about training. The CD's were right, how could they have signed them off if they didn't know a thing about the turbines because they were not involved with it?

RE: Waiver question
 

I would be willing to bet that all people who do the sign offs, CD's and waiverd pilots who sign off on someones waiver would be liable in a damage lawsuit. Lawyers won't stop at anything if the damages are high enough.

RE: Waiver question
 

In that's case then the examiners at the BMV are liable for everyone that crashes a car...

RE: Waiver question
 

I haateto bring this up, but what is going to happen with Frank tiano's New event this fall. large scale airplanes and non-ama snctioned or controlled event. Are all ama pilots obligateed to the ama? If someone shows up with this big jet or without a waiver ....what is the ama going to do? Shut down the event, take names and fire later? What authority does the AMA have over this event? My guess is none and Frank has made sure of that as he has gotten his own coverage as I undersatnd it. This event is a direct afront to The ama and their authority.........

RE: Waiver question
 

Ilona Maine & Jay Mealy have stated that any AMA member attending Frank's event who deliberately violates the AMA safety code's weight limit, is at risk of expulsion from the AMA.

Gordon

RE: Waiver question
 

Thanks for replying Gordon. believe me I dont know the rules so my question is sincere. What will the ama do. camp out and take names or what? and how will they know what something weighs?

RE: Waiver question
 

There is no guarantee that the AMA *will* do anything ... just like there is no gauarantee that the CHP will come after everyone who goes above 65 mph on a 65 mph freeway.

The problem though, is that they *can* do something if they so choose. It woud be much neater IMO if they would simply allow us to explicitly "opt out" of AMA coverage for specific events etc., but they have so far indicated zero interest in allowing that. Maybe with the new blood at the top of the AMA, some of these kinds of things can eventually be allowed, but in the meantime we have to deal with the fact that the AMA can choose to be downright nasty if they want to.

Gordon

RE: Waiver question
 

do you think this would be to their advantage? Do you know why the jet speed event was cancelled? The one by Eddie Weeks?