RE: Nitro Models Formost 150 are in the USA
 

Well, I've just bitten the bullet and ordered one myself. I'm absolutely new to turbines, and was looking at finding as least as expensive as possible a way into turbines. I have been mulling over which plane to buy. I was strongly considering the DV8R, but that is no longer in production. A jet friend of mine recommended the CJM Talon. I wasn't too fond of the Bobcat, so another friend recommended the Boomerang. That is what I settled on, then I stumbled upon the Formost 150. I like larger-sized planes, so I was really liking the Boomerang XL. But it is a costly plane. I had a reality check, and decided that since I'm new, a smaller version would get me in the air cheaper and sooner. Hopefully others that get the Formost 150 will continue to share the mods that need to be done to make the plane really turbine worthy. Now which turbine to get. Decisions, decisions. Leaning towards Jet Joe for low(er) initial costs. Still not completely sold on it's QA and reliability. The JJ1800 seems to be getting better press though. Since they are now a sponsor at this years Florida Jets, I'll get a chance to see them there.

-Jorden

RE: Nitro Models Formost 150 are in the USA
 

RCISFUN,

Sorry to disappoint you, but your set-up of the nose wheel retract and steering will not work in the Formost-150.
If you absolutely want to use this idea, you'll have to make so many changes that the benefit is neglectable. And your servo will also be hanging under the fuselage...

Only good option for retract steering is to have the servo installed straight behind the nose wheel and connected with pull-pull cables ; take a look at the other thread, we have been brainstorming already quite a bit on the best location. With the presently provided bulkheads, it is not really possible to do. The air tank(s) are in the way and so is the mid transversal rib. This being the main reason why I redesigned new bulkheads for the main tray and all supporting formers as well, although, basically, the supplied parts would have been sufficient to hold the radio equipment.

Me too, I wanted to install two rectangle tanks at first but they are not optimal for the incoming air flow through the air inlets.
The single round tank is much better for the air flow, besides less complicated and more reliable than a twin set-up, and can be drained up to the last single drop of fuel when using a single modern clunk. Take a look at the evolution of the thread, I abandoned that idea of twin tanks in the process.

In case of having a fix landing gear (i.e. as supplied with the kit), you can install the servo upside down in the foreseen servo mount in the wheel bay (see also foreseen opening in the main tray above the mount in the wheelbay) with two pushrods in Z-shape (Simon from Singapore did install it that way). With retracts, you can't, as the level is very much different and you have to work with flexible cables.

Nicolas.

RE: Nitro Models Formost 150 are in the USA
 

In this version of the jet, a single round tank of sufficient fuel is not possible unless you rip out all the formers - which are actually glued in pretty well. The intro Boomerang doesn't have much of a good flow path either so I'm not particularly worried about how clean the flow is to the engine. The inlets are very small and it would be hard to choke off the air from them. Besides, the tanks I pointed to are out of stock so I'll probably just make a tank. If I had used those tanks, I was going to put an additional 24 oz tank on top of them.

Plenty of room to work in a nose wheel steering servo on the floor and still put that other equipment tray above it.

RCISFUN - your gear arrangement won't work without cutting away the forward bulkhead to get the retract unit in. So how did you fabricate the servo plate & attach it to the retract unit?? Similar nose gear came with my XJ L-39.

Tough decision at this point - build this one one the next two weeks or so, finish repairing a FB Hawk (about the same time required), or finish the scratch build jet I've pushed aside at least 3 times now.

RE: Nitro Models Formost 150 are in the USA
 

Thud_Driver,
Here is the servo mount for my JL T-45, it is made from 1 mm (.040" ) sheet metal.
I used a bronze bushing .5" O.D. and .25" I.D. then silver soldered the sheet metal bracket to the bushing.
If you want the AutoCAD drawing send me a PM with your e-Mail address.


SpiderJets,

I will look at the implementation of this when I get my kit, from what I have seen on your thread I most likely will do like you did and rip everything out and start over anyhow:D

RE: Nitro Models Formost 150 are in the USA
 

The jet Spiderjet has is built somewhat differently than the one that Nitro has sent me. The internal bulkhead arrangement is different and there is more bracing on the gear mounts. Maybe not enough, but until the landing gear rips out, I'm going to try it as is.

I don't remember the exact measurement, but there's only about 7.5" length in the fuel compartment which is why I looked at the premade tanks.

Thanks for the offer on the CAD drawing but your picture is clear enough.

RE: Nitro Models Formost 150 are in the USA
 

Hello Thud_driver how bout some pics please!!!!

Thanks, Neal

RE: Nitro Models Formost 150 are in the USA
 

Interior fuselage pics:

RE: Nitro Models Formost 150 are in the USA
 

Fuel bay is 7 5/16" long or 186mm, just short of 4 1/4" tall + whatever fits into the turtledeck and maybe 6" wide with some trimming of the flanges.

Rest of airplane is pretty much what you see in the published pictures.

RE: Nitro Models Formost 150 are in the USA
 

Hello thud driver

Nose gear opening needs cut out?

Bottom pic of fuse?

How do the main gear bulkheads look?

Thanks, Neal

RE: Nitro Models Formost 150 are in the USA
 

Yes, I have to cut out the nose gear opening and install the nose gear mounting blocks.

You can't see the main gear bulkheads without cutting open the airplane. I'm not, someone else can.

RE: Nitro Models Formost 150 are in the USA
 

Bottom pics. The main gear mounts will accept Robart 630's, a perfect fit except there's no place for the side air line to go unless you cut a hold in aft face of the wheel well liner.

I don't know if those pieces with the holes in them are for the nose gear or no.

RE: Nitro Models Formost 150 are in the USA
 

Thanks for the photos, can't wait till I get mine, except it will have to wait until after FL Jets:D:D:D:D:D:D

RE: Nitro Models Formost 150 are in the USA
 

For the money I;d say it's looking pretty good so far. I'm very tempted. What's the least expensive way to get a turbine, I mean what brand has the best bang for the buck.

I'm thinking about getting in but don't want to throw a bunch of money at it up front. I figure I'll get in learn if I like it or not, then move up if I do. What are used turbines going for today?

RE: Nitro Models Formost 150 are in the USA
 

Turbines for sale are here: http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/cat...old=1&catID=57

I fly JetCat.

Remember, that cheap airframe is carrying around what is probably your most expensive investment in the hobby.

RE: Nitro Models Formost 150 are in the USA
 

pappy35
Best Turbine:D:D:DDo you like Chevy's, Ford's or Dodge? :D
:D:D
That has been debated forever...

If you just want to dip your toe in the water then look for a good used RAM 500 ($1200), when your done with it you can turn around and sell it for what you paid for it.

If your serious and want something for the future the it is hard to beat Jet Central, Jet Cat or Wren, however your initial investment will be more than double the price of a good used RAM 500.


Like I said it is the old Chevy vs. Ford vs Dodge syndrome

RE: Nitro Models Formost 150 are in the USA
 

The Boomerang Intro, or "Baby" as some call it, has been recently reduced in price ($600). And that, IMO, is just the icing on the cake that makes the "Almost 150" a superflouse, pointless exercise.

After you invest your time and $$ to make a junker airworthy, you might as well have gone with a proven (1000 sold) and refined design with excellent parts, building, and flying support from a well known designer who , years after the jet's introduction, STILL regularly participates in the forums with helpful advice.

The phrase "penny wise, pound foolish" applies here.

The airframe, afterall, is only part of the financial equation. I will spend the extra $200-$300 on a kit to fly my $ FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS worth of engine and equipment in an airframe that's already PROVEN to be safe and reliable right out of the box.

So there you have it, THAT is what I think of the "Almost" 150.

Regards, Don.

RE: Nitro Models Formost 150 are in the USA
 

I don't want to get off topic because there is a separate thread on the form for opinions on this kit, see link; however since I started the thread then I guess why not....[X(]
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7016824/tm.htm


It is interesting to see the market making adjustments; I wonder if these "Adjustments" would be being made without these "Junkers":D

Ah the beauty of Free Enterprise.....

So I think there are at least three advantages to the Almost 150 and similar offerings:

1) It keeps vender's and manufactures on their toes and just maybe offer a superior product for a better price.

2) It provides individuals who like to modify and change things a chance to do their thing and show off their creatism. I don't know about anyone else here however I don't have the time to lay up a fiberglass design to make a great looking aircraft (god bless those who can, I sure wish I could); however I sure do have the time to take a good looking model and modify it to make a airworthy design.

3) It provides the "OTHERS" something to complain about.

Now back to the previously scheduled thread, lets get this thing modified and flying.

Thud_Drive you have the helm.... :D

RE: Nitro Models Formost 150 are in the USA
 

As I said, I have three airplanes to build/finish and one to repair. I put the foam and tubes in the booms yesterday, but today is the repair job. I'll get back to it in a couple days. In the meantime, I need to order some odds & ends.

I did find that the wings have a nice mount in them for the aileron servos. The cover plates for the rudder & elevator hatches are ply with partial cutouts for the servo's and horn, but no mounts. The elevator servo area is too thin for anything other than a mini at best. I have some Hitec 5245's that I will probably make work, but even they are a bit too thick. A JR 3421 would be ideal.

RE: Nitro Models Formost 150 are in the USA
 

Thud_Driver,
Is the elevator servo still in the booms like SpiderJets has shown in his thread, or has the kit been modified to accept a center servo in the horz stab?

I will use one servo in the center like the Boomerangs.

Keep up the good work, good luck with your repairs today.

Rich

RE: Nitro Models Formost 150 are in the USA
 

Elevator servo's are in the fin. Don't think the stab is thick enough for anything but a mini. Next time I have it out, I'll see if the ribs have holes in them for a servo lead. You will have to cut a hole in one of the stab mounting plates to run the lead or in the inboard side of the top of the fin.

RE: Nitro Models Formost 150 are in the USA
 

Just saw the above post, as I was re-reading the thread to determine what caused you to believe what made my post from last night "off topic". (FWIW, I didn't see anything to denote this only a "build thread")


Anyway, a few observations...

First, I think your dig of my screen-name is a bit odd because I have been only respectful in my posts here and while extremely doubtful of the merits of the 150, have not, in any way, shape, or form sought to insult or malign it's champions. Must you insult me personally because my opinion differs?

Second, I can tell you without reservation that the ability to build or modify a model is NOT what's being judged when obtaining a waiver. Many waivers have been issued to flyers, I say again, FLYERS, who've obtained their waivers FLYING a turn-key jet. Sometimes a jet they don't even own! To assume that a waiver holder, ESPECIALLY in this "era of the ARF's" is an experienced and competent/safe builder is just whistling past the graveyard and dangerous. A perfect lead-in to my next point...

Third, I don't want to see anyone's rights removed either. THAT is EXACTLY where I'm coming from so I'm happy that we are in total agreement there! The right to fly jets under the umbrella of the AMA is NOT a given. It is a hard-won right brought to you and me by a few tenacious pioneers and icons in the hobby. Much of the establishment was (and still is) against jets on the grounds of safety, and as, you said, liability.While not seeking to detract in any way from those with the skill (emphasis on skill) and ambition to fly the 150 as a turbine, my worry is that this kit is a ticking time bomb...that someone who's not as skilled and experienced as most who are reading this thread will put a 150 into the air and damage persons, property, and the hobby.

In fact, more than just a worry, I see it as an inevitability that someone out there, devoid of the knowledge of the STOCK kit's shortcomings (remember please that just because you and I are avid readers and researchers here at RCU, many, MANY are not) will marry a "bargain" 150 to an engine off of ebay and then BANG. Some ambulance chasing MF will, as is all too common, sue EVERYONE involved, and some that aren't. Futaba, JR, Jetcat, Wren, Nitro, Dreamworks,the AMA...are all at risk here. And you know who suffers most? You and me. The everyday hobbyist who'll lose the AMA umbrella and a couple of manufacturers/suppliers to boot when, as you've already alluded to, the liability insurance costs strangle the life out of the jet corner of this hobby we love so much. And do you know who gets off completely? The Chinese.

Lest you think I'm an alarmist, I refer you please to this current and active thread [link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7118682/tm.htm[/link]. Tam is looking down the barrel of this liability gun even as I type. And who, of all possible morons, filed the insurance claim that now threatens the very food on Tams table? THE BUILDER.[:@][X(]:([:@][X(]:(

Let me put this one more way and then I'm done (and I thank you all for reading this far already).

Most of us have seen emotional and heartfelt opinions warning against using even one cheap SERVO in a jet, right? Yet here is an instance where the entire airframe, top to bottom and front to back, is suspect. Individual MODDERS' skills aside, the introduction of THIS Chinese kit is bad for us all.

Flame if you must. But IF you must I propose then that the true merits of your argument are inversely proportional to the emotion and heat of the flame.

Respectful regards, Don.

RE: Nitro Models Formost 150 are in the USA
 

Please, Highhorse, we all know this. You can't keep all the idiots from being idiots and everybody is a newbie at some point. There are others putting turbines on the Nitro Bobcat knockoffs with some success and it's even cheaper, made by the same Chinese outfit. I've even scratch built some nice jets for half of what these cost. Have you raised the alarm about all those too?? I've seen tons of folks try to cheap ***** everything in this hobby, including turbines, most with a noteable lack of success. I've even seen waivered pilots do stupid things with their jets. It's my personal opinion that half of the hobby equipment on the market is crap, some dangerous, and yet it sells by the ton. The year is just starting and we still haven't got all the newbie Christmas present airplanes crashed yet. People are people. The hobby isn't going away and you can't protect all of us from ourselves.

RE: Nitro Models Formost 150 are in the USA
 

Thud Driver, RCISFUN,

Do you plan on making the modification to run the wing tube through the fuselage that Spider Jets shows here [link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7016824/mpage_4/key_/tm.htm#7085190[/link], or do you think your modified "New" version of the Formost 150/160 is sufficient as it is?

Thanks,

-Jorden

RE: Nitro Models Formost 150 are in the USA
 

If you can find a sufficiently long 16mm tube of the right thickness in the US for decent price, I will. I found a CF tube but the price is obscene. The Rookie/Roo spar isn't long enough. BTW, in my experience, the Rookie/Roo spar isn't strong enough either. I've bent three, including two with the dowel inside. The Formost tubes are way thinner than the Roo/Rookie tubes.

Right now I'm thinking of doubling the tube with a full length 1/2" wood dowel or aluminun tube but it would have to be glued into the stub tubes because of the loose fit.

RE: Nitro Models Formost 150 are in the USA
 

The stab is just shy of 11/16" thick at the center or about 17mm. Any servo more than about 1/2" thick may not lie flat in there without bulging. The ribs have oval slots in them so you can get a servo lead through there. As opposed to what I said before, you will not have to cut the ply mount in the stab, but you will still have to drill a hole in the top of one of the fins.