M148 flat agent
 

Hi,

I'm using this stuff together with OMNI clear. This flattening agent is like lard!!!

Am I supposed to dissolve the concentrate completely? It is really hard to mix it up.

Also, my mix last night ddin't come as flat as I'd like. I used 1:2.5 (54oz to a gal). Can I add more to make it flatter?

Thanks,

David

RE: M148 flat agent
 

The lard like consistency is caused by the SiO2 (amporphous silica) content. It causes the flattening because of it's light refraction properties.
It must be completely mixed in to be effective and consistent from batch to batch.

When using a flattening agent, have the paint store shake it before you use it, unless you have a shaker, or other mixing equipment.

I bought a paint shaker from Harbor freight for $99.00 a couple of years ago, and it does a great job. It requires about 90 PSI to operate it.

Prior to the shaker, I used a mechanical mixer, which looks like a four bladed boat propeller (about 2" diameter) on the end of steel rod. Use it with your electric drill.

You can get them at Home Depot or a hardware store or paint store for a few bucks.

RE: M148 flat agent
 

Yup!

You're LUCKY if it's lard consistency. Took me literally about an hour of constant stirring to get it to re-dissolve after I had it shook up at the paint store.

Let it sit for like a day and it settles out agian. Well, maybe not a DAY, but it does.

Patience, it works fine.

RE: M148 flat agent
 

Harley,

Thanks. I brought the paint to work today. I'll have one of my buddies place it on the shaker for a couple of hours.(seems it will take that long!!)

David

RE: M148 flat agent
 

Our Red Devil paint shakers at work would take about 10 minutes to completely put the product into suspension. It must be totally dissolved before you add it to the clear or you are just adding solvent. Depending on what clear you are using the ratio you wrote would at best give you a semi-gloss finish. To approach flat it is not uncommon to use 1:1. Also be aware that usually when flattening a product the ratio of catalyst to clear will change. You are only catalyzing the clear resin - not the flattener. That can also bring the gloss up. Keep the coats light without getting dry, that works well for maintaining the desired flattness. When wet coats are applied the flattener can settle out of the film ( just like in the can ) resulting in a higher gloss when dry.

Regards,
Dan
www.gocolours.com

FYI, the above link is to my company website. If you click there find the PPG Platinum button, follow the link to the PPG Refinsh site and there you will find all the product bulletins for everything PPG.

RE: M148 flat agent
 

Dan I noticed that the places where I had wet spots didn't came out as flat as the places where I only add thin layers. Exactly like you said.

RE: M148 flat agent
 

I have a dumas R/C boat prop on an 1/8 Diameter rod, I've used to throughly mix paints for years. Turn it in a drill.
:D

RE: M148 flat agent
 

10 minutes on a shaker and now it's ready.

I was hoping to clear the whole model in one night, but it takes forever to cure. I hope to be done by Sunday so I can "show off" some pics. :D

RE: M148 flat agent
 

Flat finishes can be tricky to deal with - at least from a consistency standpoint. Humidty, temperature and film build all play a part. One mix ratio on a day with warmer, drier conditions can give you exactly what you need. The same mix on a damp, cool day can give you something else. [:@]

Dan

RE: M148 flat agent
 

Would you elaborate on that please....

RE: M148 flat agent
 

I am using the "fast" hardener. Not sure how fast it is supposed to dry to touch, but 1 hour later it was still somewhat wet. I honestly think that I did not mix the flattening agent properly and I merely poured solvent into the clear/hardener mix.

I only have two tables to work with, so I rely on shooting the bottom fo the fuse, wings, stabs first, let it dry and then flip them over to shoot the top side.

How long should it take to cure?

RE: M148 flat agent
 

Alot faster than that. The initial solvent should be gone in 20 mins or less, out of dust in maybe another 10 or so. Which Omni clear are you using?

RE: M148 flat agent
 

I don't know off the top of my head but it is one of the "heavy solids" series. Seems to amtch the M14X series of products.

RE: M148 flat agent
 

Is it a 2:1 mix normally without the flattener?

RE: M148 flat agent
 

Yes sir, thank you, thank you, thank you Success!

I used the 2:1 clear/hardener, and then a 1:1 clear/flat and the results were great: dead flat.
I think the 10 minutes in the shaker helped a lot! Clear was dust dry in about 25 minutes, and I was able to clear the whole airplane in 2 hours. Now I only have to clear the ordinance.

Once you get the mixture right, it si downhill from there.

RE: M148 flat agent
 

Congrats..looks great!!!

RE: M148 flat agent
 

David,

Yeeehaaa........ looking good bad boy. Gether done ASAP, Bucaneros going up soon. Can't wait for maiden pics and video. Bring her to the Island to burn some fuel. You're welcome any time.


Alex

RE: M148 flat agent
 

Looks good. Nice job on the gear door fit.

RE: M148 flat agent
 

Thanks, they were a royal pain!!

I'm afraid you will want the ordinance kit once you see it fit!! looks mean.

RE: M148 flat agent
 

Did you find those little indentions at the ordinance mounting points, on the bottom of the wing?

RE: M148 flat agent
 

Yes, I found them. Two indentations per pylon.

I drilled only one indentation as a pilot hole, clocked the pylon and then match drilled the second hole. The indentations do not match the holes for the bolts in the pylon, but they are close enough thousgh.

The HS-5125MG's fit perfectly in the wing pocket.

I have a Yellow F-16 cockpit laying around , I will try to install it. This is a full cockpit with all the instruments and gauges. I will modify the equipment tray so that it lies closer to the bottom of the fuse. Since I do not install anything underneath I can get it very close to the bottom. The Yellow cockpit has a large and deep "tub", so the equipment tray location has to be modified. As a matter of fact, we don't need no stinking tray. :)

Do you know the capacity of the main tanks? They look big! Did you use a 3rd tank above the inlet?

David

RE: M148 flat agent
 

Tried 1:1 ratio today and it sucked!! I'm wetsanding with 1500 right now and will try again with 3:2 (clear/flattener).

I will try it on a smaller part first and not the fuselage! [:@][:@]

RE: M148 flat agent
 

Was able to fix but the finish has some porosity to it.

What kind of buffing compound can I that will not bring out too much gloss?

Thanks,

David

RE: M148 flat agent
 

None, the second you start buffing with anything it will gloss up a flat finish.

I'm going to ask the obvious, but when you add the M148 to the clear, and you're talking about a 1:1 ratio, you do mean 1 part of M148 to one part of MIXED clear right? In other words, you're still mixing the clear with hardener right? 1:1 ratio is way to much M148 in there anyway and probably a huge part of your problems.

The M148 should be mixed as follows:
It's the same whether using MC260 quick clear or MC161. Both use the MH167 hardener (fast)

Flat Add 51 oz./RTS gal. (128 oz)
Eggshell Add 45 oz./RTS gal.
Semi-gloss Add 42 oz./RTS gal.

So in other words, if you want a dead flat finish, the correct ratio is 51oz of M148 mixed into one mixed gallon of clear (clear and hardener 'ready to spray')

5 - 10 minutes between coats, will be dust free in about 30 to 45 minutes, tack free in 2-3 hours, and ready to tape in 9 hours.

I haven't had great luck with using the M148 as a flattening agent in clear though. It's true use is a metallic control in base. Added to the metallic base coat paint it will affect the orientation of the metal flake. As I recall that is it's true intended purpose, the above mixing ratio's are from PPG though for use as a flattening agent in clear, just relaying my own experience with it.

Also, with the flattening agent in paints, the tip size of your gun and your air pressure will play a huge role in how well it goes on. 1.3mm tip with 29psi is what you should be using.

RE: M148 flat agent
 

Hi and thanks,

The PPG recommended ratio never worked (it comes to about 1:2.5), the results where glossy every time. I tried again today with 1:1 and finished the whole model. Not sure of the size of my touch up gun but I used between 15 and 20 psi.
It is as flat as can get without having white spots. I'm pretty haapy with the results.

However it is very easy to leave "scratch marks" on the rough surface. my biggest concern will be with fuel/oil stains, they will be impossible to wipe out.

I'm going to try buffing the surface some using only a piece of buffing cloth with no rubbing compund.

I will post some pics tomorrow.

David