Feei Bao F22 Raptor advise Please
 

Hi , i have a Fei Bao F22 Raptor to prepare soon but i have no instructions. Can any one advise me what surfaces to use with this model for good responsive and safe flight characteristics.
I have flown jets with tailerons only and found control response vague although functional , with a blank canvas to play with there are too many choices and i may never find the best set up for this model.
I will be fitting a Jetcat p120 se , any advise on control set up's , movement amounts and C of G position would be great,
Thankyou for looking , Dave.

RE: Feei Bao F22 Raptor advise Please
 

Let's just say that it is very, very similar to the old Skymaster F-22 (though nobody will admit to it..). This thread may help you

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_33..._1/key_/tm.htm

(it flies just fine with the gear in the stock location, by the way....) If you are going to do gear doors, do them first while the aircraft is empty and easy to move around. There is a bit of fit and finishing involved to get them to fit right. Also there is very little room for the door cylinders, so make sure the landing gear can retract and extend without hitting it.

Ailerons, you are going to need all the travel you can get. This will involve trimming back the trailing edge skins. You will have to do the same for the flaps to get any throw.
Make sure the fins are absolutely solidly tight as possible, and use locktite on the screws....they have been known to flutter and leave the aircraft.

(this experience is from the old model, they may have made running improvements to the model) I have the old manual around somewhere, I'll look up the control throws and cg for you..

RE: Feei Bao F22 Raptor advise Please
 

(double post)

RE: Feei Bao F22 Raptor advise Please
 

(triple post - I don't know how that happened !!)

RE: Feei Bao F22 Raptor advise Please
 

Thank you for your response Wayne ,
i have heard so much adverse opinion re. this model such as rudder flutter, main wing shielding elevator and generally hard to see in flight ,
Its good to get valid comments from people that have flown them.
For simplicity i felt no great need for flaps, if the model comes in like an F15 it should be quite tame not to need them,
also to save weight and again simplicy i would consider leaving rudders fixed !
I heard some one mention mixing tailerons with ailerons ! but again i would have to have definate movement amounts .
Thanks again, look forward to throw's if you find them , Dave.

RE: Feei Bao F22 Raptor advise Please
 

We had no problems in normal flight, it has a very wide flight envelope. Although the camo grey makes it somewhat difficult to see, the configuration makes it easy to keep orientation in flight.

With limited aileron throw, we (my son and I) found it necessary to mix in some taileron with ailerons for control at low speeds. The mix could be turned on or off as needed. It took a bit of experimenting to get the mix % in an effective, but comfortable region. We started with a little bit, and added after each flight until it was exactly what was needed.

Simplicity is good, it will save a lot of expense, wiring, and weight

RE: Feei Bao F22 Raptor advise Please
 

Thanks a lot Wayne , i will be starting the instalation soon and will servo up ailerons and tailerons , thanks again , Dave.

RE: Feei Bao F22 Raptor advise Please
 

Hello

I am laso building one. This one was an early one. I dont know if there are any differences. The aileron servo mounts are already cut to shape to accept the JR DS 3301, however the wood there is not suported and too thin for the job. You must insert hardwood between the mountings and the upper skin, like in these pictures.

Paul

RE: Feei Bao F22 Raptor advise Please
 

Thanks Paul, i had looked at the servo positions and wondered what fiitted them and how i was supposed to mount them !,
without instructions i have many unanswered questions.
Fei Bao 's email link does'nt work, i tried to get some instructions downloaded but got the email returned ,
also looked for Skymaster instructions as they are extremely similar models but they no longer seem to offer the model ,
maybe i will put a needed posting out for them , thank you for advise , Dave.

RE: Feei Bao F22 Raptor advise Please
 

I found the manual! 16 pages, mostly pictures....

Here is the important stuff:
Aileron throw: 15 - 20 mm each way (we couldn't even get that much due to wing skin interference)
Elevator throw 35-40 mm each way
Flaps: 15 mm for take off; 35 mm for landing
Rudder 15 -20 mm each way

Center of gravity 160 to 170 mm from where the leading edge meets the fuselage

RE: Feei Bao F22 Raptor advise Please
 

Thank you Wayne , great stuff

RE: Feei Bao F22 Raptor advise Please
 

I'll keep the manual near the computer in case you have any more questions.....

RE: Feei Bao F22 Raptor advise Please
 

Hello

If you havent already glued the ailerons to the wings, check that the holes for the pin hinges are aligned correctly on wing and aileron. On my one the holes were out of alignment, so I had to fill in the holes in the wing with hysol and then drill out new holes next to the old.

Paul

RE: Feei Bao F22 Raptor advise Please
 

Here is a picture of the JR DS3301 servo in place. Notice the different screws! you will have to use shorter screws on the trailing edge side, if you dont want your screws to penetrate the upper surface of your wing, because the wing is thinner at the rear of the servo.

RE: Feei Bao F22 Raptor advise Please
 

No problem to achieve the required throws on my model, without any modifications.

RE: Feei Bao F22 Raptor advise Please
 

Here I used led shot pellets to balance the horizontal tailplanes. I drilled a hole a few cm aft of the leading edge and dropped in the led with 30 minute z-poxy adding a little bit at a time untill the correct balance was achieved.

RE: Feei Bao F22 Raptor advise Please
 

I also painted the inner faces of the gear doors satin white, as on the real aircraft and I diss assembled the landing gear and wheels to paint the parts satin white, except the oleo area.

RE: Feei Bao F22 Raptor advise Please
 

Looks like your cracking on with yours ! , thanks for info it will be usefull when i get into mine properly.
I notice you are using rudders , i like to have a rudder for take off and landing correction but have been warned off by a few people as the rudders have fluttered badly and torn off.
I cant understand why if the hinges and liknage is sound and slop free a problem should ocour , it seems to be the F22 and the F18 that suffers !.
I am going to keep mine very basic as a sunday model , i will more than likely modify the retract area's and not use doors for instance, i also thought of just using tailerons to save servo's and wires but have decided to go with the full setup so i can mix surfaces to make it respond to my taste . Thanks again , Dave.

RE: Feei Bao F22 Raptor advise Please
 

What servo's are you chaps using , i normally use futaba or hitec coreless metal gear (non digital ) servo's , i dont agree with the price of jr's and have never seen the need for digital's even on my big petrol warbirds, would you comment please, thanks , Dave.

RE: Feei Bao F22 Raptor advise Please
 

Hitec 5245's on the ailerons and rudders
Hitec 5985's on the flaps (tried the non digital 985's but they did not have the holding power, and the flaps would blow up)
JR8611's on th stabs (those are huge stabs!!)
cheap sport servo for nosewheel steering
Hitec 85's for brakes and retracts

RE: Feei Bao F22 Raptor advise Please
 

Hello
I am using JR D3301's on the ailerons, JR DS3401's on the rudders, these have metal gears and are thin enough to fit in the fin, JR 8511's ( 8611 in the US I think ) for the elevators and Hitec HS 5955 TG for the flaps.

Also if you are going to use the ball links supplied in the kit, make sure that you fit the servos and the linkages before you cut out the slot and glue the controll horn in the ailerons, flaps and rudders. This is because the supplie linkage is not actually a ball joint and must be in line with the servo horns.

Paul

RE: Feei Bao F22 Raptor advise Please
 

Hi , a couple more questions if you would not mind,
how far back have you set the stainless jet tube ? as the model has the stealth like triangular overhangs where the tube exits the rear of fuz i wondered if the tube was not far enough back that the fuz moulding at the rear would get burned by the exhaust gasses,
if i push it to the end of the overhangs i can see quite a lot of the stainless pipes !

Secondly what are your feelings on rudders, i normally fit rudders to aid semi cross wind take off and landing but have heard of a couple of rudders tearing off the fins and damaging the fins also ,
These were not a case of simple flutter , both the models were built well , it seems to be a trait of this model and also F18's , may be the angle of the vertical fin's / strange turbulance ?

Appreciate your thought's , thanks , Dave.

RE: Feei Bao F22 Raptor advise Please
 

Our tailpipe was recessed in so that the stainless steel was not visible from the outside. This was pretty much dictated by the postion of the engine plus the required air gap between the exhaust and the belmouth. I had to build a support frame to attach the pipe mounts to.

As mentioned previously, we never had problems with the rudders. Knowing about this problem as it was being built, I couldn't find anything that I could do to reinforce the mounting structure, so left it as it came from the factory...just made sure the bolts were good and tight and used a healthy dose of Locktite. I also used much stronger aftermarket linkages and metal servo arms to ensure there was zero slop in the rudders themselves...

Unfortunately, it succumbed to an inverted spin out of the top of a "power loop" and was very heavily damaged. It will be replaced!

RE: Feei Bao F22 Raptor advise Please
 

Thanks for info Wayne,
Whoa! thats sad to hear , dont know what to say exept i know how you must feel ,
i lost an F16 a month ago due to a transmitter fault !
We trust the equipment week in and week out but if it's electronic it can go wrong , just like a TV ! , good to range check and inspect regularly .
I will have to shelf the project temporarily to build a winter model as our weather is turning grim at the moment , but it should be ready for the better weather , thanks again , Dave.

RE: Feei Bao F22 Raptor advise Please
 

Thanks for the thoughts, but it was my son's plane not mine. The pain is gone and it is time to move on.

I really don't know that rudders are really necessary on jets (except in the USA). Nice to have in certain situations, but always a potential problem source on that plane..