RE: AMT USA
 

Technically......and pre 2.4, the two-second delay can only be used w/ JR radios, as they initiate (virtually) no 'hold' period in the event of a link loss. Pre 2.4 Futaba systems, OTOH, had almost a 1-second hold, so that a 2-second additional ECU delay would exceed the AMA limit. Those using Futaba systems, therefore, needed to specify only a 1-second additional hold/delay. W/ both systems, any reestablishing of the radio link within the 2-sec period would reset the 'timer', since it's a continuous loss that is required before shutdown. Less than a 2-second loss.....you would likely not even be aware of it.

No FS throttle/engine Tx progamming is needed...and those channels can effectively remain in 'hold'....as it's the ECU that actually causes the shutdown.

Some one know if 2.4 JR and Futaba operate the same...w/ same delays? Tx!

Ray

RE: AMT USA
 

Ray and John,

How does the ECU recognize the signal as a "hold" and not just the throttle not being moved? Also, very good question Ray concerning the JR 2.4. It looks like you have to assign a failsafe position to the throttle and what should it be?

Thanks for looking into this.

Craig

RE: AMT USA
 

Craig and Ray,

Wow, now we are getting technical. I have had several conversations with the US Micro Jet factory today to make sure that I reply with the correct information.

So here it goes.

As Ray said, transmitters have a built in "Hold" feature which is the step between Normal operations and Fail Safe. The length of the hold varies between radio companies and may be able to be adjusted in the transmitter programming.

Here are a few ECU scenarios, none of which have to do with the radio or Fail Safe. Let's say you are running an engine:

If you turn off the receiver, all generations of the ECU will immediately shutdown the engine.

If you turn off the transmitter for less than 2.0 seconds then turn the transmitter back on, all generations of ECUs will go to idle and will stay at idle until the throttle stick is brought to 0%, then you will reestablish throttle control. If the throttle is not cycled the engine could run at idle until it runs out of fuel.

If you turn off the transmitter and leave it turned off for more than 2.0 seconds, all generations of ECUs will go to idle for 2.0 seconds then shutdown.

Now for Holds and Fail Safe:

The ECU does not recognize a Hold. The ECU recognizes Normal operations and it recognizes a signal that is out of parameter, such as a signal sent from the Fail Safe.

With the generation two and three ECU, the initialization is completed one time per installation, you set your throttle stick settings using 100% ATV. To program Fail Safe, with the ECU turned off, program the throttle to 100% with the ATV throttle set to150%. After programming the Fail Safe, return the ATV to 100% for normal operations.

Let’s say your radio system has a “real” full Fail Safe situation.
If the receiver goes into Hold, the engine will continue to use the last throttle stick position, after the Hold period, the receiver will go into Fail Safe and send an abnormal 150% signal to the ECU.
The generation two ECU will go to Limp mode because it receives abnormal signals from the receiver, after 2.0 seconds of abnormal signals the engine will shut down.
The generation three ECU will go to idle because it receives abnormal signals from the receiver, after 2.0 seconds of abnormal signals the engine will shut down.

With the generation one ECU, the initialization is done after every power up, you set your throttle stick settings using 100% ATV. To program the Fail Safe, set the throttle to 100% with the ATV throttle set to150%. After programming, return the ATV to 100% for normal operations.

Let’s say your radio system has a “real” full Fail Safe situation.
If the receiver goes into Hold, the engine will continue to use the last throttle stick position, after the Hold period, the receiver will go into Fail Safe and send an abnormal 150% signal to the ECU. The ECU will go to “Limp” mode because it receives abnormal signals from the receiver, after 2.0 seconds of abnormal signals the engine will shut down. Limp mode is a three seconds at 80% of throttle stick setting and one second at idle setting, if radio signal is reestablished, normal operations will be restored.

If the radio signal is intermittent and not severe enough to enter Fail Safe, the engine will remain in Limp mode.

I have done my best to answer all of the questions and concerns, please let me know if I am mistaken and have given erroneous information, my goal is to only supply well thought out support for US Micro Jet engines.

Thanks,

John

I have edited this post to correct the generation two initialization information.

RE: AMT USA
 

John,

Thanks for the explanation. I'm still a little confused on the failsafe setup for my Gen 2 ECU. Seems like if I set the transmitter failsafe to 150% ATV (rx and ECU off) and then reset it to 100% for normal operation, I should be good to go. I was under the impression that since I did not have to set the OFF/Shutdown/Idle/100% manually on each ECU powerup (like we did with the old Gen 1 ECU) that it does not re-initialize on every power up. Even if it does, it will calibrate to the 100% position and then "see" the 150% in the event of a failsafe.

Thanks,

Craig

RE: AMT USA
 

Craig,

I corrected my post above regarding the generation two initialization.

I agree you should be good to go.

You are correct, the generation two ECU does not re-initialize on every power up.

Thanks for pointing out my error.

John

RE: AMT USA
 

Thanks John, I will set up my failsafe ATV to 150% and give it a real world test the next time I fly.

Craig

RE: AMT USA
 

Well....been quite a while since I set things up....and I'm dark ages anyway: still gen 1, Futaba 9C. So, John...I gotta defer to you...you really have a grasp of this stuff!

I guess I did have to pre-program the throttle FS to shutdown (per AMA requirements), duh....otherwise it would maintain that setting (whether at idle/max/whatever) w/ a link loss. W/o the ECU mod, shutdown would be instant w/ JR...about a second w/ Futaba.

One caution...in turning the Tx off, then on, for simulating a FS....you'll find there's a reacquiring period additional to the actual switch on. All you really have to do to check out the system is switch the Tx off....shut-down should occur within two seconds.

Maybe I understand now :)...but that's only specific to old stuff! 2.4 radios: are the Tx delays still the same (1-second Futaba, etc.)?

Ray

RE: AMT USA
 

I understand that they failed to pay the sponsor fee at FIJR 2008, at least that is what the FIJR website says.
http://www.floridajetflyers.com/Sponsors.htm

RE: AMT USA
 

And?

RE: AMT USA
 

I am flying the Gen 1 ECU. All I did was program fail safe on the 12FG to shut down the turbine via the three way switch. Sure, there is no hold, just instant shut down, but its a Boomer so it'll glide.

RE: AMT USA
 

Woketman: no more one-second pause....the 12FG goes immediately to pre-programmed FS positions w/ a link loss? I.e., you shut your Tx off and there is immediate model response...all channels?

That's a real departure from what I always thought was a good philosophy! W/ momentary/under one-second link losses (as the vast majority are reported to be), there's no reason to have the model jumping around in and out of FS pre-programmed positions (gear down, slight up elevator...even snap roll/whatever is used...).

'Course maybe we no longer have ANY link losses w/ 2.4 of that nature...so that issue rendered moot :). Well....except these radios retain 72MHz capability....doesn't make sense to me.

Ray

RE: AMT USA
 

No, Ray, I really do not know how long it is. I have not tried. I should not have said it that way.

RE: AMT USA
 

Woketman + Futaba??

[sm=what_smile.gif]

RE: AMT USA
 

I was far too scared of getting shot down by the OFs around here. I had to go 2.4 and MPX ain't out yet. Once the MPX 2.4 solution is out and proven, I will move back to the top of the line gear!

RE: AMT USA
 

There, I feel better now!

Wocketman + Multiplex is an institution!

In these troubled times, I NEED something I can depend on! [sm=teeth_smile.gif]

RE: AMT USA
 

Yeah, it took me a long time to decide to use a Futaba product again. Their QC department left me with many questions, years ago. Hope they have improved.

RE: AMT USA
 

<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; FONT-SIZE: 7pt">HI guys I am new here Ehab you know who I am:

</p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; FONT-SIZE: 7pt"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>Anyways I just bought my first micro jet engine it is a AMT Olympus engine. The engine is an older model from the information I have been reading here I guess it's a generation 3 but brand new and never ran before until 3 days ago. Went to start it today and now get a continuous beeping sound. The book says this is a hardware error and to unplug the power which I did but still beeping. I am hoping there is something I can do as this is a brand new unit. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Dan</span></p>

</p>

RE: AMT USA
 

<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; FONT-SIZE: 7pt">HI guys I am new here Ehab you know who I am:</span></p>

</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; FONT-SIZE: 7pt"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>Anyways I just bought my first micro jet engine it is a AMT Olympus engine. The engine is an older model from the information I have been reading here I guess it's a generation 3 but brand new and never ran before until 3 days ago. Went to start it today and now get a continuous beeping sound. The book says this is a hardware error and to unplug the power which I did but still beeping. I am hoping there is something I can do as this is a brand new unit. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Dan</span></p>

</p>

</p>

</p>

RE: AMT USA
 

<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; FONT-SIZE: 7pt">HI guys I am new here Ehab you know who I am:</span></p>

</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; FONT-SIZE: 7pt"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>Anyways I just bought my first micro jet engine it is a AMT Olympus engine. The engine is an older model from the information I have been reading here I guess it's a generation 3 but brand new and never ran before until 3 days ago. Went to start it today and now get a continuous beeping sound. The book says this is a hardware error and to unplug the power which I did but still beeping. I am hoping there is something I can do as this is a brand new unit. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Dan</span></p>

</p>

</p>

</p>

RE: AMT USA
 

<div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt"><span style="line-height: 115%; font-size: 7pt">HI guys I am new here Ehab you know who I am:</span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt"><span style="line-height: 115%; font-size: 7pt">AnywaysI just bought my first micro jet engine it is a AMT Olympus engine. The engine is an older model from the information I have been reading here I guess it's a generation 3but brand new and never ran before until 3 days ago. Went to start it today and now get a continuous beeping sound. The book says this is a hardware error and to unplug the power which I did but still beeping. I am hoping there is something I can do as this is a brand new unit. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Dan</span></div>

RE: AMT USA
 

<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; FONT-SIZE: 7pt">HI guys I am new here Ehab you know who I am:</span></p>

</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; FONT-SIZE: 7pt"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>Anyways I just bought my first micro jet engine it is a AMT Olympus engine. The engine is an older model from the information I have been reading here I guess it's a generation 3 but brand new and never ran before until 3 days ago. Went to start it today and now get a continuous beeping sound. The book says this is a hardware error and to unplug the power which I did but still beeping. I am hoping there is something I can do as this is a brand new unit. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Dan</span></p>

</p>

</p>

</p>

RE: AMT USA
 

THIS IS A RECORDING !!!!:D

Paraman,

Constant beeping usually means no RX signal... Make sure you are on the right channel and mode, or you have binded correctly. I assume you do not have EDT,... The beeping will tell you what the errors are. Consult your engine book, and you have different "beep counts" for different failures.. The most common is the fast beeping w/ no pause. That means no Rx signal or Start Clearance. you have to go through the switched channel sequence at every start up to get the start clearance. That channel has 3 positions... Emergency shut down, auto shut down, and run. You will hear a beep when cycling your switch or knob right before you go to the run setting. Most guy's put it on a a 3 position switch (JR 10x Aux 2 or knob channel 4 ) .. hope this helps, let us know how you end up.. It's much easier to understand if you have a EDT. In the run position the EDT will say start clearance, and you can move the throttle up and down to set you travel adj. points to give you 0 to 100 %. You start w/ the throttle all the way down w/ the trim all the way down alson. That will be you Idle setting. When started, advance the throttle to 100 % and wait for the EDT to say max RPM SET. This has to be done every flight.

Good luck.

Danno

RE: AMT USA
 

Dan,
You are correct. The beeps indicate a hardware error. On the Generation one and two ECU, this error indicates that you have no radio signal going to the ECU. I would double check your connections. I would also double check the EGT connection, as this will give you a fault also. The setup is very simple, and we will be happy to assist you if need be. If you need a diagram of the setup, pm me, and I will email it to you. Please include your email address. You can also reach me at through the contact information below.

John Ligons
V/P Sales and Marketing
US MicroJet LLC.
900 Glendale Milford Rd.
Cincinnati, OH. 45215
Phone: 513-771-5387
Fax: 513-771-0397
[email protected]

RE: AMT USA
 

<p class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><font face="Calibri" size="3">Wow thanks for the fast response rcjetsaok and John:</font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><font face="Calibri" size="3">First off sorry about the multiple post I made but I did not see it posting on this thread so by mistake I posted it to many times..sorry. Anyways I do not have an EDT as of yet but would like to get one. I am using the knob style box for running the engine. Yes I am aware all of the three positions on the box emergency shutdown, auto shut down and run positions. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>Yes rcjet I did hear the beeping sounds as I turned the knob on the boxes before. I did also consult the owner’s manual for the information regarding the beeping sounds. This is what puzzles me as I have had it started and running about six times already and everything worked great and I have not changed anything as far as my starting procedure goes or my connections. I would be surprised if it was the ECU as it is brand new. Ehab had mentioned maybe my battery sources are low on power; could this be cause for the beeps? Thank you for the offer to send a diagram John but I’m pretty sure it is hooked up properly as I followed the booklet. </font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><font face="Calibri" size="3">So John looks like you’re the man to talk to about getting my engine serviced when the time comes. My question is will I be able to get this engine surfaced? I do not have the serial number handy as I am at work but it is a older model and was delivered in 2002 its all chrome. I am really hoping I will be able to get this engine serviced when the time comes. I had talked with another gentleman back east and he seems to think it is a USA engine and they still make parts for these and service them.</font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><font face="Calibri" size="3">Once again thanks to both of you for your help I appreciate it as I am new to these and can use all the help I can get. </font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><font face="Calibri" size="3">Dan</font></p>

RE: AMT USA
 

Paraman,

Sounds like your all over it... If you have had it running and all was well,and you haven't changed anything, my first suspicion would be RPM sensor failure.. 5 beeps then pause, five beeps then pause...over and over. You might get a small mirror and flaslight and look in the inlet wall at the sensor and see if it looks damaged ( chopped by compressor blades). I've never had a failure in flight but I have had it happen. And in my opinion AMT is the best engine out there !!! But the speed sensor set up is the Achilles heel of their design... That being said, AMT's are without a doubt the most bullet proof engine out there. That was proved to me at Superman Jet Rally years ago when Jim Waggle dropped a AT-280 on the tarmac numerous and then ran a 55 gallon drum of fuel through it without turning it off !!!!...

Oh well, I'm an AMT NUT !!!! ( can you tell:D!!! )

Let us know how you end up !!!!!

Danno
( Dan M )
Austin, Tx.