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RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
I have been using Lipos for ECU's since began flying turbines about 4 years ago. I think the secret to my success have been that I am scared about using Li-pos, period. I therfore have a lot of respect for them. I remove them from my airframe every single time, and use a Ceramic container like it was suggested. Also, if I go to sleep I make sure I go downstairs and unplug everything!
I also remove the Li-Pos from my airframe prior to storage. Yes I'm anal regarding that but I just dont trust those batteries. Really man, sucks what happened to you, but there is a way around it. Sorry for your loss. David |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
I think what Kirk said about the quality of the batteries is key too. As I mentioned, I have yet to see a pack become un-balanced, but to this point, I have only flown TP or Evo batteries and I think they are very well matched. I have some new packs that are cheaper Chinese off-brand and those I will watch much more closely...
I also agree with David - I don't store my LiPos in the aircraft either - I keep them all in metal amo boxes... Bob |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
Sorry to see this happen. Sorry for your loss
I'm a big user of Lipos. I highly recommend Dedicated LIPO ONLY Chargers with a built in balancer that can terminate the charge in case of a runaway situation such as this. I have been using the FMA Cellpro 10S and the Balance pro and I highly recommend these chargers. |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
1 Attachment(s)
Here is my Walmart solution for battery storage
SentrySafe Fire-Safe Waterproof Chest, Model HD2100 $43.97 for a large box use SentrySafe Fire-Safe Waterproof File, Model HD4100 $48.84 |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
Thanks Rich, I'll have to check those out...
Bob |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
Me too, I use li-manganese without problems.
Hector |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
I currently have 4 3-cell 2100 mah packs from Electrifly. I use the Great Planes PolyCharge 4 with the Equinox Balancer. I am very new to Lipos but this set-up seems to work very well.
SM http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXKAU0&P=0 http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXMGS7&P=M |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
Never Never charge Li-POs in the aircraft NEVER.
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RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
Never charge with lipoly batteries in the jet??????????
although the results that started this thread are enough reason to make that statement, that's as realistic as saying only fill your fuel tanks with the fuel cells out of the model??? I think I will just stay with nicads, only had one problem in 22 years. |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
ORIGINAL: Kelly Rohrbach Never charge with lipoly batteries in the jet?????????? although the results that started this thread are enough reason to make that statement, that's as realistic as saying only fill your fuel tanks with the fuel cells out of the model??? I think I will just stay with nicads, only had one problem in 22 years. It's hardly the same really is it !! I never charge my lipos in the model, when i bought my bobcat i moved things around so i could take them out easily. I have never had one blow while charging, but the other week i was working on my bandit and heard a woooosh, looked around to see smoke pouring out of my ammo box (which is what i store my lipos in) It was a 2s shockie lipo that hadn't been charged for a month. luckily because it was on the charging shelf in the box and not with the other lipos, it didn't damage anything. Duncan |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
Use A123's.
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RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
1 Attachment(s)
Charge and store your LiPos in a terracotta pot, not in metal containers (too risky ! ).
I have converted almost completely to A123 batteries after I had to dump about 15 Lipo packs in one weekend. They're fun but their lifespan is too short (and they're dangerous). I'm very impressed with A123, they are extremely fast charging, by no means critical, deliver an incredibly high constant power, less expensive,... They are only a bit bulkier&heavier and a bit less Volt/cell, but the rest is pro A123. I even use them now to run my Kolibri turbines (in 2S configuration > same single pack for RX and ECU !), receivers, and JetCats.... next to the applications in small electric models of course. No more NiCad, NiMh, Lipo, LiMnO,... I prefer A123 ! Nicolas. |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
So Lipo is also dangerous when not being charged ???
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RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
Murphy's law is powered by Lipo :D
No, seriously, they are not really impact resistant... Do a search on Google and YouTube... |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
Is there any real -fire- danger when they are just sitting on the shelf in my workshop ?
cause my workshop is UNDER my house !! Anybody ? |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
There's always a risk... suppose they are a little damaged at the inside and the seal breaks inside a cell...
You can compare the idea of the risk at rest with an inflated air balloon with a weak spot on the surface somewhere. Will it hold the air pressure ? Yes. Is there a risk it will burst, even if it held for a while ? Yes. Our cells are not used in a hard shell casing, hence always more submitted to handling/impact risk. |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
Sorry for your buddy Mark, hope he is still going to Wang. See you there.
It has me amazed why anyone uses lipos in a turbine jet anyway. Different batteries, different applications. Sure, lipos have revolutionised electric powered models with their high energy density but is it needed in any other type of model? Have they just become 'fashionable'? Most jets are flying bricks anyway so a couple of extra ounces for batteries is not an issue. I think I will just stay with nicads, only had one problem in 22 years. |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
Sorry to learn of the loss. The Avonds F-15 is a great plane and my experience is only with the old version! Been using Duralite Li-ion packs with safecharge and the Duralite charger and voltage checker since July 2004 because they have a warranty. Of the seven packs I own one has failed because of a deep discharge below 5.5V. Otherwise no problems. I charge these in the planes but like others would never charge a LiPo in plane. Even the 14MZ battery goes in a fireproof bag for charging.
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RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
If you guys knew how some (most) of these (LiPoly) packs were made you would steer clear of them...Only a thin "Mylar" type film separates the "plates" and without a hard outer cover of some sort to protect the pack, these packs are very susceptible to being damaged...
And yes...Just sitting on the shelf, or in your model, these packs can self destruct without warning...You never know if the pack was jostled just enough to put it on a course of self destruction.... Kevin |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
yes i agree 100%
i confirm Lipos are way dangerus for use! please ship them all to me!:D |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
Nico's comments about the Terracota planter is great. Gonna get one today.
BV, Tam, and now Shulman Aviation and other purveyors of hair dryer technology are not going to be happy about all this bad LiPo press. Forget about little RX and ECU Lipo packs. Those 40C-5S2P-6500maH packs, big as 2 salami sandwiches stuck together, are weapons grade when it come to an inferno if one of them lights off during a recharge gone wrong or rupture after a crash. Used with caution though, they have proven quite reliable and safe so far, but even a 1/1000 chance of a LiPo fire during re-charge could be disastrous inside your house, trailer, or car. So.....Bottom Line from my experience which includes 1 fire from a post-crash rupture of a Li-Ion and unexplained overcharge on a Duralite Li-Mn which expanded to 2X normal size, but did not burn or rupture, using a dedicated Lithium charger, which has tested totally normal since the incident Never charge unattended, preferable never inside the house Never bury your Lipos in your plane where you can't rapidly get them out if you elect to charge them inside the plane Never use tie wraps to tightly fasten Li-Po's....use Velcro and HD Double sticky tapes per Kevin Greene's comments. The separators and outside case are fragile. Always check and double check your charge algorithm before pushing the start button on the charger. Nothing will destroy and probably light off a Li pack faster than a NiCd or NiMh algorithm. Preferably use one of the dedicated Lithium-Only Chargers on the market. And Never Crash you Planes...;) And almost forgot.....Switch to A123 whenever possible. |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
...................but Tom, can anything be as good as these A123s. They seem too perfect, there MUST be a problem ! (using them extensively now, for both ECUs and Rxs. !!)
Regards, David Gladwin. |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
Hi David:
The only problem I have had retrofitting has been the modest increase in size of A123 over Li-Ions. In some of my tight installs with custom cut battery holders, they just don't fit, and I am too lazy to re-do the layout. I think that is holding back the Sparky's from jumping in as well. When you make up the equivalent of a LiPo 5S-2P 6500 in A123, it won't fit in the first generation of Hi Power EDF's out there at the current time. Tom. |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
ORIGINAL: Kevin Greene And yes...Just sitting on the shelf, or in your model, these packs can self destruct without warning...You never know if the pack was jostled just enough to put it on a course of self destruction.... Kevin Come on guys LiPo's are not that dangerous its the abuse that they get that makes them unstable and a bad charging regime. Jet Cat cannot convert any ECU's prior to Serial No 2350 to use A123's and if you have kero start you have a problem, Nimh can not supply enough power for the ceramic plug without going to silly size's. Anyone used a JetCat ECU with A123's without having it converted? Mike |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
No problem at all, just use a boost battery for starting. I connect a Duralite LiMn battery in parallel during start of my P70
kero. , disconnect when start complete, go fly ! Use of A123s on unmodded Jetcat Ecus MAY cause failure , of my two 160 ECUs , one was OK the other failed. soon fixed by JC. Both are now modified and work perfectly on 123s and Tom size must be the only problem, slightly increased weight even allowed me to remove some lead from the nose of my Hawks. Can't belive how fast they recharge too, using the CellPro from SinCity jets. THE battery for RC use. Regards, David . |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
Due to flight restrictions at my club field, I have to start on the patch, I am already carrying an extinquisher, a Tx, fuel overflow and you are asking me to carry somthing else as well, no chance.
I will ask again, has anyone used A123's without converting an early ECU? Mike |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
Hi Mike,
There have been many people that have run 3 cell A123 with JetCat ECUs without problem, but it is too marginal. Many have had failures. In any case, JetCat USA can do the mod on any ECU, the charge is US$25. Hope that helps, |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
ORIGINAL: mr_matt Hi Mike, There have been many people that have run 3 cell A123 with JetCat ECUs without problem, but it is too marginal. Many have had failures. In any case, JetCat USA can do the mod on any ECU, the charge is US$25. Hope that helps, Lee |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
i recently had my P-70 ECU updated to smart chip and asked Bob about the a123 mod and he advised against it.
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RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
ORIGINAL: BaldEagel ORIGINAL: Kevin Greene And yes...Just sitting on the shelf, or in your model, these packs can self destruct without warning...You never know if the pack was jostled just enough to put it on a course of self destruction.... Kevin Come on guys LiPo's are not that dangerous its the abuse that they get that makes them unstable and a bad charging regime. Jet Cat cannot convert any ECU's prior to Serial No 2350 to use A123's and if you have kero start you have a problem, Nimh can not supply enough power for the ceramic plug without going to silly size's. Anyone used a JetCat ECU with A123's without having it converted? Mike Almost every cell phone, PDA, laptop computer and other small electronic gizmos that you use and charge everyday in your house and or car have LiPo batteries. Do you really think that the lawyers would let that happen if they were all that dangerous. When used correctly they are quite safe. I have not seen many installations where the are used correctly. |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
ORIGINAL: Silver182 ORIGINAL: mr_matt Hi Mike, There have been many people that have run 3 cell A123 with JetCat ECUs without problem, but it is too marginal. Many have had failures. In any case, JetCat USA can do the mod on any ECU, the charge is US$25. Hope that helps, Lee IIRC, the issue is that a freshly charged A123 can be too high voltage and damage the ECU. Gordon |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
ORIGINAL: Gordon Mc IIRC, the issue is that a freshly charged A123 can be too high voltage and damage the ECU. Bingo |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
Actually I'm quite surprised of the contained meltdown of this incedent and find it an improvement of LiPo technology of years past. Just 4 years ago the photos show a complete portion of house, garage, gone. I've been around a few Lipo meltdowns and to date have never seen the intense fireball of flames so popular with the LiPoSack promo vids.
I have been using LiPo since their being mainstream and find them to be the biggest source of Urban Legends than any other Rc item. There are videos on the web that show an #11 exacto peircing one without incedent, I've witnessed a freind purposely drive a 1/16" music wire through one completely. A freind drilled a 1/16" hole on his model and went a tad to much and into a new TP Lipo which DID NOT explode in his face but rather started a super generating heat swell in which he promptly removed and threw it into an open area. While it is true TP packs are premium and hold voltages per cell closer, there are other items they dont accel in, Fact is I run Rhino cells and can discharge them to over 160 deg and they will not swell, A ThunderPower will swell around 140 deg. I was exxlusive TP 3 years ago but now exlcusive Rhino. I do charge all my Lipo's with an active balance charger adapter from Graupner to my Shulze MCduo latest software. Charging in a model is absolute no no RULE #1, All incedents of fire IMO, a charger is invovled and ASTRO or MRC are most involved variety. IMHO LiPo, "DO NOT" spontaneously combust, One item proven a contributor of this phenom is that DEANS mini polarized style plugs when left dangling in a model or batteries in a mass storage enviroment, CAN actually short circuit themselves and dead short a battery as the male pin can insert itself across the female and male pins of a close proximty plug of the mini polarized, I always put 5/16" vinyl caps on my mini deans ends. This phenom happened when a LiPo was left in a model for the ride home and the mating mini of the close proximity of the ESC made it short circuit. I never leave them in the model after use as well. And I cringe when I see the guy open up a case, box, container of all his LiPos with those dreaded minis in close proximity to each other..02 |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
Hello,
Just to say that in our "indoor flying" local club, people use hundreds of LIPO battery.. I have never seen one of them explode of burn etc in 3 years !!!! What you have to do is charging at 0,5C with a good balancer. But yes there is always a risk....risk is everywhere... :D :D:D:D JeanFi |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
I'll preface this with "if you haven't crashed you haven't flown." I have flown a lipo powered jet straight into the ground and accordioned the battery into mush without incident. I repeated this same procedure with a slow flying model and actually split the casing in several places on a zippy rhino pack with no heat, swelling or fire. I have another pack that when bought new reeked of lipoly chemical smell like it was venting. So although these are all extreme examples, it just depends on how you tear up a pack and if there is a good short, caused by wiring or a damaged cell etc. It would not be a good idea to charge a pack that is not balanced unless one knew the cell voltage and capacity for a particular pack. That is asking for trouble, no matter the chemistry. I can remember when a lot of folks were complaining of NIMH fires as well due to the fact that they were charging them at higher than C rates. They couldn't figure out that charging a pack to the point of overheating was not a good idea...
MACE |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
ORIGINAL: jeanfi Hello, Just to say that in our "indoor flying" local club, people use hundreds of LIPO battery.. I have never seen one of them explode of burn etc in 3 years !!!! What you have to do is charging at 0,5C with a good balancer. But yes there is always a risk....risk is everywhere... :D :D:D:D JeanFi Kevin |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
ORIGINAL: Kevin Greene .....................The hobby shop co-owner gave the heli to the other owner and said, "Here's another one!!!"... if that was the case he invited himself for 'gross negligence' for selling a known fire hazard to his customers in the first place........... |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
That single cell LiPo 110MAH in a Blade mini is in the hands of literly 1000's of total people ignorant of Lipo legends. Hobby King sells those Lipo for $2 just and few weeks ago they listed 1000 in stock and within 5 hours it said -11.
Yours is the first I heard of a fire hazard with that single cell 110MAH battery and such a potential danger. Odds are its gonna make the mainstream media pretty soon would'nt you say? FWIW, I watched Keeping up with Kardashians and they had o'le Bruce Jenner letting is wife fly his Blade CX LiPo powered model, She crashed it luckily no fire given the filming crew would have caught it all on tape, But he said she's not flying anymore of his helis. HE was said to eat/breath/sleep RC helis.......Funny |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
ORIGINAL: KC36330 ORIGINAL: Kevin Greene .....................The hobby shop co-owner gave the heli to the other owner and said, "Here's another one!!!"... if that was the case he invited himself for 'gross negligence' for selling a known fire hazard to his customers in the first place........... Regardless...These batteries have a history of going up in flames whether they are handled with kid gloves or not...Laptops spontaneously combusting, PDA's catching fire in the users pocket are just some of the instances where persons and property are damaged...Why take a chance??? Here are more instances where problems have occured as taken from another R/C forum...Some are user errors and others are undetermined... Kevin This represents posts that I have seen where a LiPo pack has caught fire. They have been placed in several categories. FIRE DURING CHARGING: Operator Error- 9s pack catches fire while being charged at 10s setting. (9) 2s pack catches fire being charged as 3s (10) 2s pack catches fire when charged at 3s setting (13) 2s pack catches fire in plane while charging at 3s setting. (22) 3s pack charged at 4s voltage ignites (27) 2s pack catches fire charged at 3s (30) 2s pack ignites when charged at 10.2V (31) Overcharged battery (34) 2s pack charged at 11.1V catches fire. (36) 2s pack charged at 3s setting (40) 2s pack charges at 11.1V burns – (44) 2s charged at 11.2V goes off in garage – (47) 2s charged at 3s voltage ignites in garage – (49) 2s charged at 3s ignites in workshop – (52) Another count problem – Heli burns (57) Cell count error caused fire – (61, 62) Pack charged on NiCd setting - (66) Run Down pack catches fire during charge – (71) LiPo Burns during charge on 109 charger after mode mis-set (82) Charging slightly swelled pack causes fire (86) Li-Ion cells catch fire from charger setting error (88) Cell catches fire during attempt to repeak - (91) Charging puffed cell causes it to ignite – (93) Lipo burns during attempt to restore overdischarged cell with CC/CV PS (94) Pack ignites during charging – smoke corrodes shed and contents (98) Possible damaged pack burns like rocket in can – (100) Attempt to recharge dead lipo causes plane fire (103) Charging probably fully charged 3s pack with Astro 109 result in pack ignition. (104) 2s charged as 3s ignites in safe (109) Restart of charger resulted in wrong charge mode – (113) Wrong charger settings burns 2 packs – (112) LiPo burns in modelers hand after charging - (115) Charging slightly puffed cell causes fire, plane burns (117) Owner forgot to change charger setting from NiCd to Lipo during charging cycle (118) Undetermined Cause While Charging Fire damages garage while charging pack. (7) 1500 3s pack catches fire during 1A , 11.1V initial charge. (1) 2 cell pack ignites while being charged with 2 cell charger. (11) Car burns when pack being charged in car catches fire. (24) 2s2p pack catches fire in helicopter - possible that charger misread # of cells. (25) 2s pack ignites while on charger set for 2s. (28) $30,000 damage to house when pack ignites during charging. (no details) (43) 3s pack burns in garage - (35) 3s pack burns at correct settings- (41) 3s pack burns at correct charger settings - (46) 3s 8000mah pack catches fire after 15min - correct settings - (53) Helicopter and pack burns after 15min charge - (54) Automatic cell count charger - pack catches fire (55) Automatic cell count charger - pack catches fire (56) Lipo rockets across room (58) Automatic cell count charger - Lipos burn in garage (59) Battery ignites in car seat during charging (63) Damaged battery ignites during charge (67) Pack balloons during charge, burns while under water (68) 11s3p pack burns during charging at correct parameters (70) Another charging fire - (72) Helicopter burns when LiPo ignites during charge (73) Undetermined cause to LiPo fire during charge - (74) Chopper burns from charging LiPo fire (76) House fire (81) 3s Pack Ignites burning front of car during charge at correct settings. (83) Helicopter in garage burns while charging (106) Well used Lipo ignites under correct charging parameters (107) SUV Vehicle burns (114) FIRE FROM PACK DAMAGE: Cell poked with exacto knife catches fire- (2) Dog bites pack, pack catches fire (4) Lexus burns after pack from crashed plane put in car. (8) Ballooned pack ignites when punctured. (20) Repaired pack catches fire when connected to plane. (29) Pack catches fire after plane crashes. (37) Pack cut while shrink wrapping (39) Pack punctured during crash burns. (64) Plane crashes, pack removed and 10 minutes later burns (65) Battery pack at 1V ignites while charging (71) Puffed pack ignites during charging – (77) Puffed Pack smokes when punctured (79) Nicked pack catches fire (87) Plane crashes, battery catches fire (89) Damaged pack catches fire – (90) Dog chews pack, chars pillow and smokes house - (95) Battery compartment screw penetrates pack causing loss of plane (102) Pack balloons dring mischarge, ignites when punchured (108) Pack ignites 20 min after Heli crash – (111)\ Nicked pack “explodes in modelers hand” (116) BATTERY SHORTED FIRES: Shorted pack catches fire (26) Pack burns after shorting (15) Possible Short (38) Shorted when moved on table – (42) Pack Shorted putting connector on and burns – (45) Shorted pack burns hole in BMW seat – (48) Crash causes 3s pack to short and burn – (50) Pack ignites sometime after connector shorted for a short time (85) CAUSE UNDETERMINED: Multi cell pack catches fire in flight (5) Possible over discharge (33) Lipo pack catches fire in car (60) 2s pack starts house fire (84) In flight F3A fire reported (92) New pack partially burns sitting on desk (96) Pack ignites with no known cause (97) Pack ignites after soldering wires on (101) Pack catches fire in pick up truck (105)OTHER 2s pack connected in series with 3s pack ignites in fireball (78) Lipo burns garage (99) Packs used in parallel catch fire in flight (110) |
RE: I will never use Lipoly batteries again
Hi, I am moving all my batteries to A123, just to be safe.
Would this #6233-ECU: 2300 mah - ECU - 3 cell 9.9 volt - 3s1p Power output lead to ECU - 30in 14ga wire out to ECU, no connectors Max Disharge Continuous - 30C Flight weight: 9oz Size: 1" x 3" x 2.6"(T/W/L) work on JETCAT 160SX, kero start? and 2 #6232EC3: 2300 mah - RX 2 cell 6.6volt - 2s1p For Spektrum 9100 Receiver, power output lead 12" 16ga wire & EC3 connector for RX? Any suggestions? Mike |
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